Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

[Reinhardt]

A: Epic store is shit.

B: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STEAMTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tehdagah]

The exclusives were always earned. They literally paid for them with their own money.

No, nigga, people on kickstarter paid for them with their own money. Where epic was when developers were seeking for funds?

Did they fund Borderlands 3?

 

[Reinhardt]

The exclusives were always earned. They literally paid for them with their own money.

No, nigga, people on kickstarter paid for them with their own money. Where epic was when developers were seeking for funds?

Did they fund Borderlands 3?

Who cares about Borderlands 3?

 

[Tehdagah]

Here's the problem with the 88/12 cut: If the store is taking less, why do I have to pay the same for games? Shouldn't they be passing some of those savings onto the customer?
And the answer to those questions are why you shouldn't care at all about the 88/12 cut.

Same reason Steam games cost the same as consoles games despite having no licensing fees to Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft.

But that's ok because Valve didn't impose it!

 

[vortex]

Every popamolist cares about Borderlands dearly.

 

[markec]

I see, "consumers should be able to choose wherever they buy games" was always just an excuse. The cat is out the bag, people just see EGS as a threat to PC gaming Steam.

How did you come to this conclusion from a comment saying that Steam is a better client. Point is that people want to choose where to buy games, and naturally two most important things are price and quality of service.

Like? Most Epic exclusives weren't even kickstarted.

Shenmue 3 and Phoenix Point, cant recall if there were others.

Oh but you can. EGS games link to the developers' official Twitter/Discord/Boards. Don't base things on internet memes.

How does that have to do with people putting reviews/comments on their store.

Edit: also complaining about "being forced to use something they don't like" when Steam allows DRM for physical copies of games is lol

Valve allows people to use Steam as DRM, iF THEY WISH, they dont force them.

Same reason Steam games cost the same as consoles games despite having no licensing fees to Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft.

But that's ok because Valve didn't impose it!

Publishers decide the cost for the game, almost every store has same cut, itch.io takes only 10% cut on a sale yet you dont see any bug publisher running to put their games there.

Better argument would be why companies like EA have a same price for a game on their own platform even if they take 100% profit.

What steam does is, for the same cut as other stores, is provides access to huge player base and provides a platform with shit load of services for both publisher and players, more then any other on the market.

Steam is not perfect and it could use more competition but Epic as it is right now not only is garbage service but actually hurts players themselves.

Its fascinating to see a gamer shilling for something that works against his interests, unless your main interest is just to see Steam
loosing piece of a market.

 

[Reinhardt]

Publishers decide the cost for the game

This. SEGA, i'm looking at you! Yakuza 0 - 10$, Valkyria Chronicles 4 - 80$

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Here's the problem with the 88/12 cut: If the store is taking less, why do I have to pay the same for games? Shouldn't they be passing some of those savings onto the customer?
And the answer to those questions are why you shouldn't care at all about the 88/12 cut.

Same reason Steam games cost the same as consoles games despite having no licensing fees to Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft.

But that's ok because Valve didn't impose it!

https://store.playstation.com/en-US/product/UP3526-CUSA12611_00-ORIGINALSIN2DE01

Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Definitive Edition

Full Game | PS4
$59.99

 

[Infinitron]

One exception (or a handful of them) doesn't really disprove the rule that games tend to be released on PC and console for the same price. Developers don't want to be seen as discriminating against a platform.

 

[Black Angel]

B: Epic only take 12% cut, that means devs gets more money. That means devs will be able to make more games!

A: Okay, what's in it for the consumers?

B: B-but Steam is monopoly!!!!11!!!!!!!!1111!!!!

Literally this thread ever since the Epic's shenanigans started with them announcing they're only taking 88/12 cut.

One exception (or a handful of them) doesn't really disprove the rule that games tend to be released on PC and console for the same price.

How is it a handful when it's because Steam applies adjusted regional pricing globally? Though I'll admit I don't know if it's true and applies to *all* countries, and I've heard that in some countries the pricing is so off it's ridiculous. But from where I'm standing 'one exception (or a handful of them)' isn't exactly the case.

Developers don't want to be seen as discriminating against a platform.

That's right. When a game is made in such a way that only a certain PC spec can run it on high settings and stable framerate, but the consoles can't do the same, they just downgrade the PC version instead.

 

[Tehdagah]

How did you come to this conclusion from a comment saying that Steam is a better client. Point is that people want to choose where to buy games, and naturally two most important things are price and quality of service.

Not possible since Steam has hundreds of exclusives.

Like? Most Epic exclusives weren't even kickstarted.

Shenmue 3 and Phoenix Point, cant recall if there were others.

Most EGS exclusives weren't kickstarted by players yet outrage still happened.

How does that have to do with people putting reviews/comments on their store.

You are able to voice your opinion about the game.

Valve allows people to use Steam as DRM, iF THEY WISH, they dont force them.

They don't forbid them either. From the point of view of the consumer it's the same thing: you're being forced to use something you don't want.

Publishers decide the cost for the game, almost every store has same cut, itch.io takes only 10% cut on a sale yet you dont see any bug publisher running to put their games there.

Yes.

Steam is not perfect and it could use more competition but Epic as it is right now not only is garbage service but actually hurts players themselves.

Is it though? You buy a game, download it and play it normally. Also dozen of free games didn't hurt me.

Its fascinating to see a gamer shilling for something that works against his interests, unless your main interest is just to see Steam
loosing piece of a market.

Game creators having more commercial and artistic freedom is up to my interests:

http://www.gendesign.co.jp/E_index.html

One exception (or a handful of them) doesn't really disprove the rule that games tend to be released on PC and console for the same price. Developers don't want to be seen as discriminating against a platform.

This. Recent release: Resident Evil 3, $60 on all platforms (it's also a Steam exclusive but that's ok because Valve didn't buy it)

 

[markec]

Not possible since Steam has hundreds of exclusives.

Its not Valve that forces publishers to make that games exclusive.

Most EGS exclusives weren't kickstarted by players yet outrage still happened.

Biggest outrage was due kickstarted games, for the rest it was due people being forced to use yet another shitty platform and that it will damage the state of PC gaming.

You are able to voice your opinion about the game.

Where on the store itself?

They don't forbid them either. From the point of view of the consumer it's the same thing: you're being forced to use something you don't want.

Its not Valves fault if publishers decide to use Steam as DRM.

Yes.

If you agree then why bitch about Steam prices.

Is it though? You buy a game, download it and play it normally. Also dozen of free games didn't hurt me.

After how long EPIC store is up they still are unable to add some basic features like gifting games, having a basket or putting comments/reviews or just rating a game. The client himself lacks shit load of features Steam has, like the mod workshop or forums.
Sure it is usable but thats about it, lets not pretend its anything near as good as Steam.

Game creators having more commercial and artistic freedom is up to my interests:

http://www.gendesign.co.jp/E_index.html

You mean that few developers will be given money by EPIC to make games, which Im all for and good for them.

But I fail to see how exactly Steam was stuffing their commercial and artistic freedom. Seeing how it was Steam that created the PC digital market and allowed pretty much anyone to make any kind of game and put it on Steam and earn living from it.

Not to mention that EPIC unlike Steam limits what games can be launched on their platform, seems a bit not very freedom like.

This. Recent release: Resident Evil 3, $60 on all platforms (it's also a Steam exclusive but that's ok because Valve didn't buy it.

Again its not like Valve forced anyone to make that decision.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

 

[Gerrard]

What is it with this thread and new people periodically coming out of the retard closet?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Its not Valve that forces publishers to make that games exclusive.

Its not Valves fault if publishers decide to use Steam as DRM.

Again its not like Valve forced anyone to make that decision.

Indeed. Not this shit again.

If it's the developers doing it, then why don't you cry about those developers? Never has one of you who cries about developers releasing only on Epic has cried about a developer releasing only on Steam. Or at best, if you even acknowledged it, it was just to say that you just take the lesser evil.

Well, if you are such a principled person, why don't you boycott those developers too? It's actually very easy. You don't really have to buy everything. If you can stop yourself from buying games on Epic out of principle you can do the same with Steam.

Just complain to those developers and only buy their game on Steam once they release it somewhere else as well. I mean, it's a win-win, right? You continue to use your favorite platform and you're also standing up for your principles. Because you're such a principled person and you care about the state of PC gaming, right? You wouldn't just care about the game being on the platform you like most and just crying like a little bitch when some game doesn't show up there, right?

Meanwhile there are some games that I'd be interested in playing that have been only on Steam for several years already and none of the Steamtards have been able to tell me what to do about it. Every time I complained about that and said I wouldn't buy it I've been met with facepalms and similar. Because why the hell wouldn't I want to use Steam, after all they saved PC gaming!!!!?????

point is that people want to choose where to buy games,

And yet, I can't choose when it's only on Steam.
For me the most important thing is actually buying the game and not renting it like with Steam or any other DRM-client. So I don't really have any choice. Tell me what to do about it.

 

[DalekFlay]

Even I would never say Valve and Epic did the same thing. Valve created a service people love with the hoped for intention of those features making many games effectively Steam "exclusive," but that's a very different thing from just buying them outright and having a shitty client you force people to use. One created their "exclusives" from talent and work, the other bought them off. It's a very different set of actions, with repercussions on the consumer in the form of missing features and such, so I don't blame people for making the distinction. I just don't think the distinction matters on a customer experience level for people like me, who don't care about client features and prefer DRM free. In my case, both are forcing me to use something I don't want and buy somewhere I don't want, so it's basically the same thing. However we must accept we're a small niche compared to the amount of people who enjoy the Steam user experience.

 

[Perkel]

If Steam was actively paying developers to exclusively publish on their platform then you'd have an argument. Hmm…

So where i can buy left 4 dead outside of steam on pc ? IF steam is interested in exclusive they outright buy studio not just fund timed exclusivity. Which is way worse.

But i guess people don't care since it never was actually an argument really.

Even I would never say Valve and Epic did the same thing. Valve created a service people love with the hoped for intention of those features making many games effectively Steam "exclusive," but that's a very different thing from just buying them outright and having a shitty client you force people to use.

Steam was literally piece of garbage for years and frankly speaking still is. IT was literally FORCED on people by velve when they released Half Life 2 when most of people were still running modems. Right now with Epic launcher you click play and it plays game. That is what matters and everything else is just garbage talk.

 

[DalekFlay]

Steam was literally piece of garbage for years and frankly speaking still is. IT was literally FORCED on people by velve when they released Half Life 2 when most of people were still running modems. Right now with Epic launcher you click play and it plays game. That is what matters and everything else is just garbage talk.

People do forget how shit Steam was at release, but they quickly made it into something people preferred. I remember when Dragon Age: Origins came out there was a long thread on the Bioware forums of people pissed it was just a disc check DVD and not a Steam code, and that was 2009.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Steam was literally piece of garbage for years and frankly speaking still is.

I started using Steam sometime around when TF2 released, I've never really had an issue with it.

 

[502]

Do me a favor and forget about the features of the storefronts, the interfaces, the fabled 88-12 thing for a moment.

Epic exclusive = less copies
not Epic exclusive = as many copies as possible

Right now, this is an undeniable fact. No whats no buts. Devs/publishers make exclusivity/timed exclusivity deals with Epic KNOWING they will sell less copies, and attempt to compensate lost revenue with Epic's fee. Hence all the comparisons with console exclusives.

Now, at the risk of sounding like a Valve cuck, Steam/Steamworks is not such a deterrent at that scale. While there will be people who hesitate to buy a game if it happens to be a Steamworks exclusive, third parties that pick Steam/Steamworks do it for popularity, even in the case of exclusivity, not for some guaranteed money from Valve to compensate for lost sales.

To me that's it. That's all there is to it. When you sacrifice a chunk of your audience for a fee "because you are a new and blossoming studio" and "you'll put that money to good use" or whatever, you are categorically a sellout.

 

[Perkel]

Just Cause 4 for free on ES.

 

[Tehdagah]

Its not Valve that forces publishers to make that games exclusive.

Neither Epic forces publishers to release games on their store

Biggest outrage was due kickstarted games, for the rest it was due people being forced to use yet another shitty platform and that it will damage the state of PC gaming.

Nobody is forcing you to play these games

"it will damage the state of PC gaming"

https://fortniteintel.com/epic-games-ceo-speaks-out-against-loot-boxes-in-gaming/29717/

Quickly someone saves PC gaming!

https://www.vg247.com/2019/10/01/co...-ray-scanner-loot-box-controversy-france/amp/

"The only thing is, the scanner consumes the container in order to reveal the item inside. To use the X-ray Scanner again, the revealed item must be claimed, because it’s not designed to scan another container without claiming the revealed item."

Thanks Lord Gaben

Where on the store itself?

They are figuring out how to create a review system that blocks review bombing (massive incline)

Its not Valves fault if publishers decide to use Steam as DRM.

It isn't Epic fault if publishers accept good exclusivity deals

If you agree then why bitch about Steam prices.

I'm not, I don't buy games at full price

After how long EPIC store is up they still are unable to add some basic features like gifting games, having a basket or putting comments/reviews or just rating a game. The client himself lacks shit load of features Steam has, like the mod workshop or forums.
Sure it is usable but thats about it, lets not pretend its anything near as good as Steam.

Steam lacks weekly free gaems

You mean that few developers will be given money by EPIC to make games, which Im all for and good for them.

https://www.usgamer.net/amp/epic-games-store-exclusivity-sellout-indie-dev

But I fail to see how exactly Steam was stuffing their commercial and artistic freedom. Seeing how it was Steam that created the PC digital market and allowed pretty much anyone to make any kind of game and put it on Steam and earn living from it.

30% sharecut is evil for small developers, should be 20% for everyone, not only for games that make over $50m in revenue

Not to mention that EPIC unlike Steam limits what games can be launched on their platform, seems a bit not very freedom like.

But do they bitch about developers who release games on other platforms?

Again its not like Valve forced anyone to make that decision.

Epic didn't force anyone to release games for $60

 

[Tehdagah]

People do forget how shit Steam was at release, but they quickly made it into something people preferred. I remember when Dragon Age: Origins came out there was a long thread on the Bioware forums of people pissed it was just a disc check DVD and not a Steam code, and that was 2009.

Yep. When people say "Epic is damaging PC gaming", they are actually saying "Epic is damaging Steam".

Do me a favor and forget about the features of the storefronts, the interfaces, the fabled 88-12 thing for a moment.

Epic exclusive = less copies
not Epic exclusive = as many copies as possible

Right now, this is an undeniable fact. No whats no buts. Devs/publishers make exclusivity/timed exclusivity deals with Epic KNOWING they will sell less copies, and attempt to compensate lost revenue with Epic's fee. Hence all the comparisons with console exclusives.

Now, at the risk of sounding like a Valve cuck, Steam/Steamworks is not such a deterrent at that scale. While there will be people who hesitate to buy a game if it happens to be a Steamworks exclusive, third parties that pick Steam/Steamworks do it for popularity, even in the case of exclusivity, not for some guaranteed money from Valve to compensate for lost sales.

To me that's it. That's all there is to it. When you sacrifice a chunk of your audience for a fee "because you are a new and blossoming studio" and "you'll put that money to good use" or whatever, you are categorically a sellout.

Yes it's called capitalism, but there's always a solution for this

Just Cause 4 for free on ES.

Epic keeps ruining consumers'... free time

 

[Fishy]

IF steam is interested in exclusive they outright buy studio not just fund timed exclusivity. Which is way worse.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/1/1...cquisition-rocket-league-fortnite-unreal-deal
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/26/21195152/epic-games-publishing-label-control-last-guardian-inside

 

[Perkel]

IF steam is interested in exclusive they outright buy studio not just fund timed exclusivity. Which is way worse.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/1/1...cquisition-rocket-league-fortnite-unreal-deal
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/26/21195152/epic-games-publishing-label-control-last-guardian-inside

According to Steambots it is ok, no ? Which was my point.