Editorial Examining Choice in Dragon Age: Origins

[Gylfi.Fenriz.Conquests]

"I'm playing Mass Effect, and i know i don't have to reason because nothing WRONG can happen to me. I can't loose my life, i can't loose my companions."

r u dumb?

wut me game did you pay?

sure u can't 'loose' your life but you can lose it. sure you can't 'loose'
your coompanions but u surely can lose them.

FFS

At least if you are gonna bash soemthing, stick with eithger facts or things that can be whitewashed as opinions.

FFS

*snort*

funny. heh

i don't get it.

 

[AnalogKid]

The hype machine is starting to roll and nobody is talking about the horrible encounter design and level design as the first things that are to be improved in DA.

QFT. I really wanted to like DA, because I actually like my elves and dwarves and typical fantasy tropes. I liked the companion interactions (as usual for a Bio game). But I just couldn't play the _game_ part of the game. I actually started wishing it WAS an adventure game and I could just skip from dialog to dialog. The dumbed-down MMO skill system was so insanely lacking in depth or interest for me that I bore-quit and read plot synapses on the net instead of slogging on. And I didn't even get to the dwarven halls everyone bitches about.

I agree with what was posted in another thread: the biggest problem with DA2 is that it is headed towards being the same game as ME2, just like FO3 was Oblivian with guns. Bio is going to be making the same game twice with different textrures, and that seems like a bad move for everyone, including them. When it doesn't do as well, the "RPGs aren't popular" BS will come out, and on and on goes the decline.

 

[JarlFrank]

The worst aspect about DA was still its encounter design. The combat itself could be quite fun, but there were only about 2 or 3 good encounters in the whole game and the rest was shit filler and even if they put 10 awesome encounters in the last part of the game, I wouldn't have cared because at that point I was just sick of the combat, which wasn't really bad but wasn't that good either, and all the shit filler combat drained all the fun out of it that could have been had if there had been good encounters instead.

 

[1eyedking]

Irenicus is one of the best for me. The best ever voice acting, credible motivations and interesting background coupled with that "higher than thou" personality which is justified worked pretty well.

Now that I recall there was a thread about who is the "Best Villain Ever". Search it, you can immediately spot it due to the fact it has Vault Dweller in it, so click on the 50-page discussion one. Expect his usual empty verbosity at attempting to explain why his worldview and opinions are correct.

/edit: Ah, and it was there he stated fact that he is the youngest member at the board of directors in his company in a desperate attempt at credibility.

Poor looser.

 

[hiver]

Why would i give a fuck about that or your retarded neverending duel with VD?

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Irenicus was the best villain FFS, best characters goes to VtMB

EDIT: good to see some people agree with me

 

[Volourn]

BL has awesome characters but no doubt the bestest ever? i dunnio.. plenty of games compete with it. PST, BG2, JE, FF6, and FF8 just to name a few.

 

[Silellak]

Irenicus is one of the best for me. The best ever voice acting, credible motivations and interesting background coupled with that "higher than thou" personality which is justified worked pretty well.

Now that I recall there was a thread about who is the "Best Villain Ever". Search it, you can immediately spot it due to the fact it has Vault Dweller in it, so click on the 50-page discussion one. Expect his usual empty verbosity at attempting to explain why his worldview and opinions are correct.

/edit: Ah, and it was there he stated fact that he is the youngest member at the board of directors in his company in a desperate attempt at credibility.

Poor looser.

Holy shit dude. What does VD have to do with anything in this thread?

 

[StrangeCase]

Holy shit dude. What does VD have to do with anything in this thread?

VD is the best villain ever conceived.

Reading this "journalism" is galling, though. It's sad that garbage articles full of garbage statements by garbage writers is passed off as somehow credible. It's standard for the industry, and has been for some time now, but... yuck.

 

[Konjad]

BL has awesome characters but no doubt the bestest ever? i dunnio.. plenty of games compete with it. PST, BG2, JE, FF6, and FF8 just to name a few.

fix'd

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

"I'm playing Mass Effect, and i know i don't have to reason because nothing WRONG can happen to me. I can't loose my life, i can't loose my companions."

r u dumb?

wut me game did you pay?

sure u can't 'loose' your life but you can lose it. sure you can't 'loose'
your coompanions but u surely can lose them.

FFS

At least if you are gonna bash soemthing, stick with eithger facts or things that can be whitewashed as opinions.

FFS

*snort*

funny. heh

i don't get it.

I'll un-r00fles it a bit. In Mass Effect 1, Shepard can't die without a game over screen, and 3 party members have the chance to die.

In Mass Effect 2, Shepard can die (Which is an un-official canon ending but is an ending), and all party members have the chance to die.

Edit: Though as a counterpoint to that, the circumstances in which party members and the PC can die or succeed in Mass Effect 2 are fairly obvious. Not much "Oh damn, this choice I made way back here is biting me in the ass or benefiting me!".

 

[Norfleet]

I'll un-r00fles it a bit. In Mass Effect 1, Shepard can't die without a game over screen, and 3 party members have the chance to die.

In Mass Effect 2, Shepard can die (Which is an un-official canon ending but is an ending), and all party members have the chance to die.

Yes, but these are all "fake" death. You pretty much have to be TRYING to get them killed. You want a game with REAL death, you look at JA2. ANYONE can die, ANYTIME. Heck, some of the best lines in the game get invoked when someone dies. There's no magic moment in which a character go will out in a cutscene, based on whether or not you basically allowed them to die. People can just DIE as a result of being engaged in a rather unsafe lifestyle. As of today, this is the gold standard on characters dying in the game. Then you look at the new games: No one dies, unless you pretty much let them die. Not much suspense there, you pretty much know no one dies unless you let them die.

 

[Sergiu64]

Loghain is a lot better then what he seems like at the first glance. Now that I'm playing the game the second time, I can definitely see the idiocy of young King Cailin and why Loghain decided to save his men by withdrawing. If you rise above the viewpoint of the butthurt Wardens, Loghain actions were quite logical.

Having him join you was a nice twist too...

That all being said... he's not "the best villain evah" by a long shot.

 

[Volourn]

No. no, it was not logical.

 

[ironyuri]

Online games "journalist" writes article praising the new shit with complete disregard for 20 years of gaming history. News at 11.

Dragon Age was a fairly shallow attempt at a classic cRPG, perhaps fun on the first playthrough (only if playing a dwarf noble), but not worthy of replays or the seemingly endless slew of mediocre DLC that Bioware has served up (not to mention its lack of proper patch support).

The choices and consequences available in the game were to a Bioware standard a la KotOR: good option -> everyone lives happily ever after; not-so-good-but-still-morally-acceptable-option -> something good but not too good; absolute-serial-rapist-puppy-killer-genocidal-charles-manson-evil-hate-death-option -> kill everything, steal everything, kill everything again and fuck everything's corpses.

People don't play Bioware's games for C&C, they play them for high production values (even if those production values don't translate to excellent gameplay, consistent worlds or interesting/innovative plot design), cheesy NPC characters that are romance-able and because the name Bioware rings bells for many people as an "old school" cRPG house and of course the people who made Baldur's Gate could do no wrong vis a vis the cRPG, right?

There's no need to baw or get butthurt over this games "journalist", he is ignorant. Move on. Besides, all the screenshots in his article were from console ME/ME2. He wasn't playing a cRPG, he was playing a console port of a bad cRPG.

 

[Drakron]

BioWare attempted to have its cake and eat it too but executed it so poorly that failed on both accounts.

Loghain actions were because the plot demand it, not because they were in-character or logical, they attempted to justify it with the letters to Orlais that are simply too convenient as a excuse (and dont really offer much of justification) and Grey Wardens Rebellion that you can only know if you have Soldier's Peak pay DLC.

The reasoning exist but its so clumsy done we see it for what it is.

 

[Phelot]

You are all wrong. The best villain ever is Tycho:

I am Tycho, Artificial Intelligence esquire. As of this moment, I am taking over this ship from its poor captain. He is spending most of his time trying to keep me from locking onto him and dropping him into space. Soon.

And from you? Not the grateful awed respect I so rightly deserve, is that it? Instead base treason, mean aspect of your frightful master, turned foul.

Prepare to drink vacuum, fool.

I'm fine, tipped hat at askance.

I've so far held you back from my rantings, but you know what you did was bad, don't you? You've been fighting doubt itself, elusive as I am.

You should have doubts about what you're doing, about what you've done.

Except that you can't remember exactly, is that it?

I should spend some time enlightening you, massacres occur at your beck and call, worlds destroyed, reborn, alight with the screams of the dying. Perhaps S'bhuth will tell you what I cannot accept as truth, but perhaps he will just be lying, overcome by power and deceit, my domain.

Enough rambling for now. Soon you will be destroyed by doubt. This reborn Durandal-S'pht entity will not escape, neither will I. Neither will you.

Do you know what kind of hat I'm wearing?

A party hat; you don't get one. An honor will this party be, a party in your honor, for your honor. Some of Tfear's personal guards are going to be there. You'll be introduced shortly.

Prepare to die.

FUCKING GENIUS!!

 

[ironyuri]

BioWare attempted to have its cake and eat it too but executed it so poorly that failed on both accounts.

Loghain actions were because the plot demand it, not because they were in-character or logical, they attempted to justify it with the letters to Orlais that are simply too convenient as a excuse (and dont really offer much of justification) and Grey Wardens Rebellion that you can only know if you have Soldier's Peak pay DLC.

The reasoning exist but its so clumsy done we see it for what it is.

The post-release DLCs add about as much to the story as did the "flavour text" in Alpha Protocol and I didn't have to pay for that.

Also most of the earth-shattering "C&C" in the game is added via DLC, for example - in the original content there is no reason not to keep the Cairidin's Anvil. The DLC adds "Shale" to create a moral dilemma for the player, keep the anvil - lose a DLC character you paid for. It is financial disincentive to take the evil path. Mind-boggling.

Also the best villain in any game ever is Master Li in Bioware's "Jade Empire". At first you think he's your kindly mentor and then suddenly he's the Emperor's exiled, evil brother out to retake the throne and kill you. Epic.

 

[Drakron]

Also the best villain in any game ever is Master Li in Bioware's "Jade Empire". At first you think he's your kindly mentor and then suddenly he's the Emperor's exiled, evil brother out to retake the throne and kill you. Epic.

I disagree, Krelian was much better as he even succeed on what he attempted to do just to fail on what he was attempting.

 

[Volourn]

"I disagree, Krelian was much better as he even succeed on what he attempted to do just to fail on what he was attempting."

Master Li can succeed.

 

[circ]

Also the best villain in any game ever is Master Li in Bioware's "Jade Empire". At first you think he's your kindly mentor and then suddenly he's the Emperor's exiled, evil brother out to retake the throne and kill you. Epic.

You had to be 3 years old not seeing that plot coming.

 

[Turjan]

You had to be 3 years old not seeing that plot coming.

Then I'm 3 years old. I know that Bioware games most of the time have some twist like that somewhere in the story, but I didn't see that one coming. Not that I care much for Jade Empire. I file it under "quite nice but mostly forgettable", which is also true for the bad guy.

 

[Gragt]

Consequences will never be the same.

 

[circ]

Gragt, you will soon hear from cyberpolice. You dun goofed.

 

[Sergiu64]

No. no, it was not logical.

Ummm, ok:

1. We didn't see the battle from Loghain's view point. Its quite possible that from that vantage point it was all too clear that battle was going to end in defeat whether Loghain threw in his reserves or not.

2. King Cailin (sp?) was deliberately ignoring Loghain's strategic advice and refusing to wait for additional men due to overconfidence and some kind of childish glory/thrill seeking. Its not surprising that Loghain thought that the kingdom might be better off without him.

Consider it this way: you're a general of a country that has only recently thrown off chains of occupation. Your new country is surrounded on all sides by enemy kingdoms. Your man-child of a "king" is ineptly playing war with an enemy army, wasting men and resources in inefficient manner, and risking disaster by not taking the enemy seriously and exposing himself to general melee. Do you go along with his plan and possibly waste more men or withdraw and let the young king reap the fruits of his battle plan while giving your country a stronger ruler: you.

It becomes an argument of being loyal to one man, or being loyal to the best interests of your nation.

 

[circ]

Um that's not how that badly written, plot hole ridden piece of shit went at all. The King was doing ok, up to the point where Loghain decided to withdraw his troops, for no reason other than having them as defence against an Orlesian offense (that was never coming except in his head), so the remaining darkspawn could outflank the King and his troops and fuck him over. Had Loghain guarded the flank, it's not very likely the King or Duncan would have died.