Interview Exciting Oblivion persuasion mini-game is revealed!

[Seboss]

Morrowind's animations were atrocious.

Yes, I'll concede this. Not that it matters much too me. It still play Black Isle games and oldies like Darklands with more pleasure than many recent games so I don't really care about animations.

 

[Claw]

It's just a matter of taste I guess. For me Gothic is corny and very linear in ways. Regarding NPC schedule, it all look like an elaborate script to me, I mean the NPC would always do the same action at the same time.

Can't argue with taste, but of course Gothic is using elaborate scripts, so what? It was better than what Morrowind had, namely extremely simple scripts.

Maybe Gothic 3 will improve on this, but Oblivion will bring some 'randomness' in NPCs lives for sure.

Nothing is sure until the game is released.

Regarding animations, drop the crap man, Gothic's anims were as awful as Morrowind's.

At the very least they were far more diverse.

Combat wasn't so much interesting either. Left-right-left-right until the baddy drops dead. Not more exciting than the Morrowind click fest.

Yeah, that mostly works in Gothic, but it still feels more - HAH! - immersive to me. Besides, that trick doesn't work against all enemies, some human foes can get a strike inbetween, and enemies that withdraw out of your range force a change of tactics. Many animals will jump back and immediately charge right through your swings if you just stand there doing the left-right. Lizards always seemed especially dangerous in that regard.

 

[Seboss]

Right. Look we surely don't want to start a Gothic vs Oblivion flame war here. I'll play and enjoy both for sure.
More on topic, I understand most RPGers are reluctant to acceptmini games in a harcore RPG series. But here, I'm sure the persuasion mini game is just a gimmick, mostly stat-based, to make persuasion -which was dull and pointless in Morrowind- a bit more fun and interactive.

 

[Section8]

Yes, I'll concede this. Not that it matters much too me. It still play Black Isle games and oldies like Darklands with more pleasure than many recent games so I don't really care about animations.

I definitely agree, but high end graphics are a substantial part of what Bethesda is selling, so to not get that right...

And aside from that, I think my opinions aren't really that different from your own. This particular minigame is quite a ways wide of the mark, but that doesn't mean all minigames are bad. I think most of the animosity stems from the fact that it's an obvious minigame as opposed to just another aspect of the interface.

 

[dunduks]

It's just a matter of taste I guess....<skip>.... Finally, I don't worship anything, I'm not some obsequious fanboy from Bethsoft official boards. I'm just annoyed to see so much people bashing this game for kicks.

Yes, that is a matter of taste and, if you noticed, this is a site about RPGs, that's why a lot of people here consider Gothic a better RPG then Oblivion. G2 offered more then Morrowind and G3 will offer more then Oblivion in terms of RPGness. As it has been said countless times - Oblivion could be good game, but it sure will not be a good RPG. If Oblivion would be positioned as a FPS with some RPG elements I'm sure there would be a lot less bashing.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

It's just a matter of taste I guess....<skip>.... Finally, I don't worship anything, I'm not some obsequious fanboy from Bethsoft official boards. I'm just annoyed to see so much people bashing this game for kicks.

Yes, that is a matter of taste and, if you noticed, this is a site about RPGs, that's why a lot of people here consider Gothic a better RPG then Oblivion. G2 offered more then Morrowind and G3 will offer more then Oblivion in terms of RPGness. As it has been said countless times - Oblivion could be good game, but it sure will not be a good RPG. If Oblivion would be positioned as a FPS with some RPG elements I'm sure there would be a lot less bashing.

So because the site is about RPG's many people consider Gothic more of an RPG? Interesting logic! I am sorry, but I would actually exactly reverse your statement (Oh yes, I know most of you disagree). Gothic may have been a better game, but it almost certainly is a worse RPG, at least for me. The simple fact that there is no character generation, an extremely simple skill system, and only three classes should testify to that. It's a lot of fun, but I have way more options to mold a character to my liking in MW - all the molding you can do in Gothic is to choose one of three paths (guilds) and that's also all the nonlinearity it has. Nevertheless, NPC's, quest design, landscaping - that was all superior in Gothic as compared to MW. But I still see it closer to an Action Adventure - RPG hybrid than MW.

 

[Seboss]

Well. I guess I have a larger definition of ' RPG ' than you.

I play RPGs since Ultima I on Apple II, and I admit todays RPGs don't please me as much as Ultima VII, Torment or Fallout, but I'm getting old. Anyway, for me Gothic is not more a RPG than Oblivion. It's quite the opposite actually. I'm not too keen on playing Germanish looking blond, bearded male with a ponytail. At least TES games give me the choice of the race, sex, looks and initial aptitude of my character. I know it's purely cosmetic in the end, but it plays a great role on the immersion.

 

[FrancoTAU]

The cosmetic choses have always been one of the least important things to me. I really could give a crap if my gender, race or hairstyle is predetermined. If the tradeoff is that for a set character in an RPG is that there is a good story to be told than i'm all good.

 

[dunduks]

Seboss, GhanBuriGhan: It all boils down to what you consider/define a RPG, for me (and I think it is the same or similar to most of the people here) it's about choices and consequences - I like when world reacts to what I do, how I do it, etc.
I like all kinds of games, but if I had to weight MW vs Gothic 2, G2 is the winner, becouse I found MW utterly boring and couldn't even finish it.

 

[Section8]

Gothic has the world and the NPCs to be an RPG, but as GhanBuriGhan said, there's not much development for your own character. There are some major choices to made, which is good and ways to approach the game with different skill sets, but there's minimal scope for actually defining a personality.

That said, despite being an RPG hybrid at best, it's streets ahead of Morrowind.

 

[Elwro]

Gothic 3 > Oblivion

Fuck yeah. And as for graphics, I don't need anything prettier than Gothic 2.

 

[LlamaGod]

Gothic 2's world immersion greatly exceeds any immersion from having your character look personalized, Gothic 2 is one of the most immersive games i've played.

 

[Claw]

Gothic may have been a better game, but it almost certainly is a worse RPG, at least for me. The simple fact that there is no character generation, an extremely simple skill system, and only three classes should testify to that.

Allright, Gothic is a kind of Action Adventure RPG hybrid, and the skill system is very simple.
[pet peeve]There aren't three classes though. The character development is class-less. Your guild choice has a limited impact on your development, but overall your skills are independent from your guild.[/pet peeve]

It's a lot of fun, but I have way more options to mold a character to my liking in MW - all the molding you can do in Gothic is to choose one of three paths (guilds) and that's also all the nonlinearity it has.

That's a flawed argument, as it only regards the main quest, and we have learned on the TES boards that being able to explore the world and do secondary quests at your leisure is true non-linearity.
Contrary to some people's impression, Gothic does offer the opportunity for that, if to a lesser extent.

Hopefully Gothic 3 will be a much better RPG.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Hopefully Gothic 3 will be a much better RPG.

It certainly sounds like it will, but the limitation to a single character is integral to the series, so that will remain. Classes - by the letter you may be right, but effectively the guild choice controlled your character development by defining your access to training, weapons, equipment to a large enough extent to represent a class.

LlamaGod: Hey, it was you guys that keep beating it into me that TEH ImMERsHUN!!!111!! Is not an integral part of a RPG...

 

[Claw]

Classes - by the letter you may be right, but effectively the guild choice controlled your character development by defining your access to training, weapons, equipment to a large enough extent to represent a class.

So you force me to elaborate after all. I really should have done immediately.
I am right - by letter and meaning. Of course guilds limit access to training, which is very sensible and doesn't detract from the RPGness at all, in fact I think it's awesome and needs to be done more.
However, there is no strict seperation between classes, and the limits are all temporary. Archery and non-combat skills are completely independent.
In the end, you get the chance to learn any skill you want. The greatest impact of guilds is armour, which is however not a significant matter of choice: No matter which camp you join, you will get equivalent armour, it's more a matter of getting more powerful as you progress through the game, but isn't mandatory.
I don't recall getting weapons.

I conclude that if you can play a mage using melee combat instead of magic, it's not really a class.

 

[Curois]

Nice wikipedia entry

 

[LlamaGod]

LlamaGod: Hey, it was you guys that keep beating it into me that TEH ImMERsHUN!!!111!! Is not an integral part of a RPG...

there is a difference between immersion and omg kewl graphixx and press releases seem to have a problem telling them apart

 

[Avin]

LOL

where is mrsmileyfacedude when you need him?

 

[Blacklung]

You know, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed the parallels between this minigame and the lockpicking method in Thief III? In that game the lock was a big ol' circle and you simply moved the pick around the circle until it started shaking and then finally popped one of the little pistons up. Rinse and repeat. No challenge, easily mastered, very unrealisitic. I mean if I could reallly break into locks by swirling a lock pick around, well then damn, I'd be a klepto.

I'll agree with some points made in other threads that it's very hard to fully capture the range of language exchange and that dialogue trees sometimes fall short and can also feel a bit artificial. However, like section 8 and many of you have already voiced, I don't think this minigame seems very immersive, realisitc, challenging, or neccessary. Perhaps if Bethesda had sat down a bit longer to brainstorm they could have come up with something much better than this. Heck, they probably could have trolled the waters of the forums and picked out some intelligent ideas (if they exist that is...).

Oh by the way, just to clarify and not defend, these aren't colored wedges, like say Simon, but rather the wedges are all the same colors. Black is the furthest to the middle, then red and yellow as you get closer to the middle. Somehow the the colors correspond to the strength of the type of persuasion in that wedge. Also, as you persuade the person to higher approval levels the colors get closer to the center of the circle based on your skill level, limiting the strength of your "responses." I'd wager that these colors also get closer and closer to the center the longer you take to persuade. This is at least what I got from the E3 moviel.

Sound better that it's fully explained? No? Good...I thought so too.

 

[Section8]

You know, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed the parallels between this minigame and the lockpicking method in Thief III? In that game the lock was a big ol' circle and you simply moved the pick around the circle until it started shaking and then finally popped one of the little pistons up. Rinse and repeat. No challenge, easily mastered, very unrealisitic. I mean if I could reallly break into locks by swirling a lock pick around, well then damn, I'd be a klepto.

Unrealistic, sure, but at least it was an appropriate abstraction. Feeling around until you hit the sweet spot and jiggling until it yielded. More complex locks had more "tumblers" to deal with. Compare that to racing against the clock to respond to emotes, and it's far more appropriate as an abstraction.

But, as you say it was easily mastered, and offered no challenge. It served as a time sink, to keep you at a door long enough to be discovered, but hey, so did the original lockpicking method from Thief. And that's pretty much how I expect the persuasion in Oblivion to be, a timesink. But also within the context of an RPG, something that's likely to override character skill.

Oh, and another thing, anyone else notice that both forementioned minigames are tailor made for an analogue thumbstick?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

So the goal of Oblivion is to talk to NPCs and give them the biggest possible wedge you can in the hopes that they'll like it?

Hrmm.. It brings new meaning to the term wedgie.

 

[Levski 1912]

wedgie

Oblivion needs a wedgie minigame!

 

[Seven]

LOL

where is mrsmileyfacedude when you need him?

Hiding in shame?

 

[Claw]

You know, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed the parallels between this minigame and the lockpicking method in Thief III? In that game the lock was a big ol' circle and you simply moved the pick around the circle until it started shaking and then finally popped one of the little pistons up. Rinse and repeat. No challenge, easily mastered, very unrealisitic. I mean if I could reallly break into locks by swirling a lock pick around, well then damn, I'd be a klepto.

But, as you say it was easily mastered, and offered no challenge.

Maybe, but it sounds like it could be expanded into an appropriate, interesting and challenging minigame with ease. In fact, it's almost exactly what I've always hoped for a Gothic minigame:
You stare into the look, seeing the tumblers as shadowy silhouettes, but can't tell how far they're in. Using the mouse, you can move the lockpick through several sections containing a tumbler and around the circumfence and try to push in the tumblers accorind to the visual cues. However, your lockpick skill determines the movement (pressure) treshold you musn't exceed or your lockpick will break.
With sufficient skill, you will be able to feel around for the tumblers effectively without breaking your picks too often. Additionally there may be lockpicks of higher quality.
To provide more of a challenge, locks may not only have more tumblers, more than one tumbler in a section, empty sections, as well as a timer that makes a random tumbler jump out again.
Oh, and of course the lock size might vary, lowering the treshold. In fact, rather than just having "different quality" lockpicks, there may be slim lockpicks for small locks and heavier lockpicks for large, crude locks that require more force to open.

Yeah, I was going off on a tangent. Just curious if anyone else would like to play THAT minigame.

 

[Blacklung]

You know, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed the parallels between this minigame and the lockpicking method in Thief III? In that game the lock was a big ol' circle and you simply moved the pick around the circle until it started shaking and then finally popped one of the little pistons up. Rinse and repeat. No challenge, easily mastered, very unrealisitic. I mean if I could reallly break into locks by swirling a lock pick around, well then damn, I'd be a klepto.

Unrealistic, sure, but at least it was an appropriate abstraction. Feeling around until you hit the sweet spot and jiggling until it yielded. More complex locks had more "tumblers" to deal with. Compare that to racing against the clock to respond to emotes, and it's far more appropriate as an abstraction.

But, as you say it was easily mastered, and offered no challenge. It served as a time sink, to keep you at a door long enough to be discovered, but hey, so did the original lockpicking method from Thief. And that's pretty much how I expect the persuasion in Oblivion to be, a timesink. But also within the context of an RPG, something that's likely to override character skill.

Oh, and another thing, anyone else notice that both forementioned minigames are tailor made for an analogue thumbstick?

Wait...did thief 3 come out for XBOX? I wasn't aware of this. Or am I just reading into this too much?