Eyestabber's in-depth guide to DR/AoD mechanics

[Elhoim]

vsRanged gets added to dodge.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Good news, guise: I ironmanned DR with a spear dodge 6 cha guy. The bad news is that my isp fucked me today and i has no internet at home. Posting from mobile. It's gonna take a HUGE amount of time to upload the whole thing, but i recorded the entire game.Took me around 6 hours, 4 gaming sessions to pull it off.

Did you watched my spear dodge build Ironman solo MP 100% encounters walkthrough? I never droped lower than 20 HP in any given fight. Most of the fights done with 30-45 hp left. medbot never hitted me once. In Emperor fight I was hit at the end for laughtable damage. My ISP fucked me up too. I uploaded video 3 days since after it original recording date (showing a lot of save menu to proof Ironman, so you can see it there).
Here it is:

Spoiler

 

[Fenix]

Btw it is intended that I can't push back scolopendra?

Also I have no tactic for them as a one-handed spearman, because I can't hit them reliably, and usual dance - legs-torso or legs-head doesn't work because they kill me pretty fast. Here I mean black version.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Realy? I never tried to do it. My 7 STR 10 block have only 6% chance of pushing it back. Two tiles spears can interrupt scolopendra, but I'm not sure about one-handed ones.

 

[Zanzoken]

One of my most successful fighters in AoD was a 2H Spear + Dodge build with attributes of 10/10/6/8/x/x or something like that. I didn't even need lore, alchemy, or bola/net. Just crafting + sharpening stones and blast away. After I maxed out stats and gear the damage per strike was something like 30-35 with near 100% passive bonus. The high DEX makes it easy to keep melee guys away and close on archers quickly.

Haven't had a chance to play DR yet but I am guessing this build would be equally viable for a solo run.

 

[Fenix]

7 STR 10 block have only 6% chance of pushing it back

Where I can see those chances?
One-handed can interrupt too, but for black scolopendrians it's somehow happens more seldom.

 

[Zanzoken]

Also I could be wrong but the Hasta always seemed like a crappy option for a Spear fighter. One of the few weapons in AoD that just wasn't viable under any circumstances -- its low damage and reach negates most of what makes the spear so deadly.

With a Krokspar I was able to drop Widowmaker in just a few hits without him even getting off once. I feel like a hasta would've gotten me wrecked in spectacular fashion.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Your build missing 8 point of dodge + 20 HP + natural CSdefense + poison resist. Ants and Barca gonna destroy you. Regular ant will cause 4 points of poison damage per turn, while ant warriors --- 8, and Queen --- 10. To avoid common ants attacks you must have at least 8 dodge. With your Perception you will be able to find 1 extra antidote, which give you 3 in total. To avoid ant warriors, ant queen and Barca you must have 10 dodge (considering your stats), and you probably gonna die to archer or Barca anyway, because you dont have enough SP to pick required skills in time (4 INT + 40HP is low). You can try this stats, but I bet that you will struggle even with ant warriors.

 

[Eyestabber]

Fuck yeah.

By the way: yo Vault Dweller, looks like the cheevos are buggy. I got "One man band" instead of "Tinman". I never finished DR solo.

 

[Elhoim]

Fixed for the next version.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Fixed for the next version.

Can you add 4 points of block for 1 point of STR, and 3 points of block for 1 point of CON? Change +15 basic bonus to +25 too. It will offset early game dodge domination and armor penalties for heavy armor. Because if you use imperial one, then enemies go for you head and hit quite a lot to be fair.

Bombs already fixed, but there a lot things left to be done. Reduse net basic hit chance from 100% to 75%. Facing bonuses can be applied. Net debuff length will be based on DEX score. Because dodger without spear caught in net is dead immediately. Make sharping stone based on crafting skill. 2 to apply for bronze weapons, 3 for iron, 5 for steel, 7 for blue steel and 9 for sky metal. Rebalance acid. Strong acid must remove 5 DR instantly and deal 10 damage. Acid splash must work on 3 tiles in a romb pattern, and remove 1 DR every turn up to 3 + dealing 5 damage. Common acid just remove 1 DR every turn up to 3 and deal 5 damage. Burning fire vial is too rare. Add 4 more of quicklime in the game before molerats instead of one of the fool gold deposits. Make fire deal 5 pure damage per turn and last 3 turns. Strong bombs must bypass 8 DR. Add 2 more dragon blood in mid game. I suggest to place it in Ismail. Remove stings from regular ants, there are too many of them in the game even for party builds. Remove rock oil from bronze constructs. Reduce number of emoryl roots and quicksilver roots.

Lower CSattack of worms. Reduce CSdefense of steel constructs, so it will be possible to crit them even with 7 critical strike. Add more STR to enemies to improve CSattack for limbs + tanks survivability, and remove a bit of defence skills on molerats. Enemies cant score stat penalties even on your 6 CON builds. Reduce enemies THC bonus on weapons, lower melee enemies DEX and PER a bit to balance initiative. Sword and daggers receive addictional PER to go for head and arterial strikes. It will improve this enemies inititative and allow them to stack bleeding damage, which is non-existant in vanilla. This will turn them into more challenging enemies, and make healing salves usefull in combat. Add 5-9 dmg poison to melee enemies to counter balance their lower hit chance and make antidotes usefull.

Reduce movement cost from 2 to 1 to make lower DEX builds and flanking possible. This will improve positioning for throwing bombs and liquid fire + make poison distribution possible for melee weapons. Make turning cost 1 AP for 90 degree, which will improve facing defense, and you will be able to spend your AP more efficiently. Add turn enemy action for 3 AP with 30% basic chance based on STR (5% for every point of STR above 4) and DEX (5% for every DEX point above 4) with feint animation (no place changing, just enemy facing on success). Now it takes 6 AP to get up from the ground. Initiative must be rerolled every turn based on amount of AP left before player used wait function. For every AP left there will be initiative bonus equal to 1 PER. Attack of Opportunity based on number of AP left on attacker, not only on defender dodge skill. Attacker bonuses: for 4 AP left there is bonus 35%, for 3AP 25%, for 2 AP 15 %, for 1 AP 5%. Facing apply. Every successfull AoO decrease AP by 2, if enemy dodges or block, then only 1AP. AoO critical will be cripling strike. Dodging every archer 2 shots decrease AP by 1 like suppression penalty. Two-handed weapons receive charge bonus of 1 damage and + 2% THC for every tile player moves before attacking. One-handed receive charge bonus of 3% CS + 3% THC for every tile. Shields receive charge bonus of +6% CS and +2% THC for every tile. Throwing weapons receive charge bonus of +2 damage, +5% passive chance +4% THC for every tile. AoO doesnt consume charged attack. Facing bonuses THC: 5% for 45 degree attack, 15% for 90 degree flank, 20% for 135% flank, 30% for rear attack. Facing bonuses CS: 10% for 90 degree flank, 15% for 135 degree flank, 20% for rear attack. Passive defence bonus can be based on number of AP left. Max will be 25 for 4 AP left before player end his turn, 20 for 3 AP, 15 for 2AP and 10 for 1 AP. For first turn player gain +10 bonus. For every tile, that player moved this turn passive defence will lower for 5 points. For every attack lower for 10 points. Wait reduce passive defense for 15 points. Shield give bonus of 5 if player stayed in place, but add extra 5 penalty for every tile player moved. Cripling strike will make move cost 2 AP for 1 tile.

Example: Player have 12 AP and sword. Archer has 10 AP. Melee dude has 10 AP and 4 AP sword. This turn player moved 2 tiles for 2AP and used 1 regular attack for 5 AP, then changed his facing for 1 AP and pressed wait. 4 AP left, which is 25 bonus and pressed wait. 2 tiles movement result in -10. Attack result in -10. +10 bonus for first turn. Wait result in -15. So, 25 - 10 - 10 -15+10(first turn bonus)=0 to player defense this turn (without applying facing bonuses and penalties). Archer shoot 2 times and player dodge 2 of his missiles, which reduce player AP by 1. In the end of this turn player use 4 AP (-1 from archer fire) left from previous one for fast attack.

Next turn archer must go first. But player used wait function in previous turn, and gain 5 extra PER for initiative roll (archer 1 AP penalty occured after wait, so it dont apply), which is enough to beat archer initiative. Player moves first. Player choose to run to the archer. Enemy has 2 AP left from previous turn and receive 15% against flanked 10 dodge player. 25% + 15% + 15% (for 90 degree flank) - 25% = 50%. Enemy land AoO and eat player HP+2AP. Player left with 10 AP. Player close in with archer and end his turn with 4 AP left and press wait to sttay with charge bonus. It taken 7 AP to run to the archer and flank him. So passive defense bonus will be 25 - 35 - 15 = -25%. Archer pined down and decide to run away. AoO chance is 35% (8 dodge archer) + 35% (for 4 AP left) + 15% (for 90 degree flank) - 25% (archer hasnt attacked or moved this turn yet, so he receive full passive bonus) = 60%. Player scores AoO. Now we calculate if archer gonna dodge this attack. Lets assume that basic THC is 48% for 8 dodge archer. Player receive charge bonus of +21% THC and +21% CS. THC: 48% + 21% + 15% (flank) = 84%, CS: 40% (player has 10 crit and archer dont have CSdefense) + 21% = 61%. Archer hit for 12 HP (3DR) and loses 2 AP on AoO + 3AP for AoO critical cripling strike. Archer moves out for 2AP per tile, and left with 3 AP. Archer skip turn. Melee dude run up 7 tiles to the player and use fast strike with 45 degree attack. Basic chance to hit player is 28% for regular strike. 28% + 15% (fast strike) + 21% (charge bonus for 7 AP) + 5% (45 degree attack) + 25% (player passive defense penalty) = 94% to hit. Player take his damage again. In the end of the turn player decide to spend his 4 ap to strike melee dude arms. Basic chance of CS is 25% (player have 10CS, but enemy have CSdefense too). Player still have charge bonus +21% to CS. 25% + 21% is 46%. Player land critical on arms, which lower enemy STR by 1 and THC by 20.

Next turn player recive initiative bonus of 4 PER, which is enough to beat archer initiative score (player pressed wait last turn with 4 AP left). Player move first, and decide to close in with archer. Player think about using 4 AP to receive charge bonus of 12% THC and 12% CS + 135 degree flanking bonus of 15% THC against archer. Player use power attack against archer. Basic THC is 48% (as I sayed earlier). Archer passive bonus is 25% (dont moved yet). 48% + 12% + 15% - 15% - 25% = 45% (risky). Player decide to use wait for future initiative boost and more. Archer basic AP is 10. After cripling strike his AP reduced to 7. Archer use power attack for 7 AP against player. Basic chance to hit is 54%. Player passive defense is 25% - 15% (for wait) = +10%. 54% - 15% (power attack) - 10% (player passive defense bonus) = 29%. Archer misses, but suppress penalty doesnt apply, since player dodged only 1 missile this turn (1 AP for every 2 missiles). Player use his previous plan, but archer passive bonus became 15% now, increasing player power attack THC from 45% to 55%. Melee dude make AoO. He used all his AP last turn. Player has 10 dodge. AoO: 25% + 15% (90 degree flanking) - 10% (player passive defense) = 30%. AoO fails. No AoO penalties applyed (2 AP on successful hit, 1 AP on dodge or block). Archer criticaly hit. CS chance 40% + 15% (power attack) + 12% (charge bonus) + 15% (135 degree flanking) = 82%. Archer dies. Player use 2 AP left to change facing for incoming melee dude. Melee dude moves to the player for 3 AP and doesnt receive any facing bonuses. His charging bonus is +9% THC. Arms penalty is -20%. Basic chance is 28% (as i sayed earlier). Player passive defense now 0 (0 AP left) - 20 (moved 4 tiles) - 10 (attacked once) = -30%. Melee dude use charging bonus on regular attack. 28% + 30% + 9% - 20% = 47%. He miss. He use 3 AP left on fast attack. Charged bonus gone. 28% + 30% + 15% (fast attack) - 20%= 53%. He scores passive now.

Next turn you have 12 PER initiative bonus (from waiting previous turn with 12 AP). It's more then 2 times than melee dude one, which means that you gonna move 2 turns in a row. Player use first turn to rear melee dude, land power attack and use healing salve to stop bleeding. Next turn 2 power attacks from the rear destroy melee dude. End of Combat.

This changes will improve game depth drastically.
EDIT: I have a lot of designed encounters for improved system that i proposed there.

 

[Eyestabber]

IMHO dodge dominance is only a thing in Rock Bottom, simply because you don't have a decent armor + shield so non-perfect blocks don't do much for you. All things being equal, block will outperform dodge because of the +15 base. I agree with the posters on ITS forum: block needs to be viable for solo. Currently it isn't.

 

[Fenix]

That's a nice wall of text.
I'm a liitle slow at such things, ComradeReptiloid but what your changes will improve? Ican't get it.

 

[Lurker King]

IMHO dodge dominance is only a thing in Rock Bottom, simply because you don't have a decent armor + shield so non-perfect blocks don't do much for you. All things being equal, block will outperform dodge because of the +15 base. I agree with the posters on ITS forum: block needs to be viable for solo. Currently it isn't.

I'm playing solo now, with block. I'm entering molerats territory. So far, no surprises, but I had to invest heavely on crafting to make it work. Maybe they should provide a "real" cavalry or heavy shield on rock bottom.

 

[Eyestabber]

IMHO dodge dominance is only a thing in Rock Bottom, simply because you don't have a decent armor + shield so non-perfect blocks don't do much for you. All things being equal, block will outperform dodge because of the +15 base. I agree with the posters on ITS forum: block needs to be viable for solo. Currently it isn't.

I'm playing solo now, with block. I'm entering molerats territory. So far, no surprises, but I had to invest heavely on crafting to make it work. Maybe they should provide a "real" cavalry or heavy shield on rock bottom.

Yeah, it's what I was thinking. Providing an armor would make the game easier for everyone, so I guess a decent shield is the way to go.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

That's a nice wall of text.
I'm a liitle slow at such things, ComradeReptiloid but what your changes will improve? Ican't get it.

Lets sum it up then. All tech detail and example presented in original post.
Stats:
DEX: movement cost reduced from 2 AP to 1 AP, which allow low DEX builds to stay active, run to chokepoints, retreat, etc. Turning cost 1 AP for every 90 degree. Higher DEX builds will be able to flank or rear enemies, use lot of gear, do more attacks, use initiative and benefit from charge bonuses. If it will be used unwise, then this kind of mindless activity will result in huge passive defense penalties and charge bonuses from enemies in your flank too. So you will be destroyed super fast if you gonna play bold. High DEX will force you to make deliberate decisions based on mathematical calculations, as you can see from example. You must balance attack/defense ratings, because there is so much more depth going on with mine improvements (look example for simple fight against two enemies). You want to calculate your AP usage, and spend it as efficiently as possible. Now saving max. 4 AP will carry huge role on your performance. It will affect defense rating, AoO chance, charge bonus savings for AoO, initative bonus rolls next turn, etc. DEX will affect team performance indirectly too. New attack type based on DEX, allowing you to change enemy facing and press turn, which will leave you with defense bonuses, and let your comrades to strike enemy rear with addictional THC and CS chances. DEX will open great opportunities for charge bonus accumulation for your next attack. With carefull AP management through wait function you will be able to move twice as fast as your enemies next turn. To make that possible you want to have high DEX and PER. On the other hand you will be surrounded trying to make that trick work. New AoO and suppressive fire systems can deplete AP to 0 value on your turn, while you trying to break to retreat or attack.
STR: become big now. For two-handed weapons charge bonus give +1 damage for every tile. Apply 10 STR to that, and you have +1 addictional damage for every 4 tiles. Moving for 8 tiles and performing fast or regular attack guarantee 10 addictional damage now. For throwing weapons it's even better, since charging bonus give you +2 damage and +5% of passive for every tile. 8 tiles will be +20 damage and +40% passive turning throwing weapons in grenades analog. New charging and flanking system with it CS bonuses will make STR potential stat reducer for enemies. So hammers not only will dent armor better, but will impose debuffs too. Axes will dish out incredible amounts of damage too. STR affect shield bonus now, giving +6 addictional points for 10 STR.
CON: becomes more important for tanks. If melee enemies using axes and hammers will have increased STR and CS and reduced THC chance, then you must protect your HP, armor and limbs. You will need it especialy against dagger and sword enemies, which will have lower STR, but high initiative and THC + poisoned weapons. Beware this lethal arterial and torso strikes. They will stack blood and 5-9 poison damage (based on stage of the game) that high CON will reduce. CON affects block bonus now, giving +6 addictional points for 10 STR.
PER: since initiative important now, this one is not a dump stat for most of the builds! 10 PER and wait with around 6 AP will help you to overcome all enemies initiative (moving twice per turn) and passive defense bonus (inevitable if you move first on new turn, not after baiting enemies in waiting pose). PER will also help to destroy new tanks and bosses without using addictional help in form of potions, bombs or advanced gear. Basically you will have 3 turns in a row if you IRL math skills on par.
INT: it was addressed by devs already. it pretty balanced in current state.
CHA: good as it is.
Skills:
Daggers: now CS will land almost every hit, if you play it right with suitable build. Best stat debuffers and moderate damage dealers. With new system they can survive even with 6-8 CON.
Swords: best damage over time and AoO weapons, if you play it right with suitable build. New system make two-handed sword mix between axe and hamers. With new system they can survive even with 6-8 CON.
Axes: The best melee damage dealers in the game. Can go with 4-8 CON easily. Probability of one hit kill is very high. One handed axes is potential debuffers and moderate damage dealers.
Hammers: new hammers is best suited for 10 CON shield tanks, and good all around. One-handed hammer is best armor and limbs debuffers, AoO strikers and potentialy very high damage dealers (armor goes down fast). Two-handed hammers is known for crazy damage output, and for biggest limbs and armor debuffs. 6-8 CON is ok. Best fpr teams.
Spears: two-handed is best tank builds. One-handed is very good now, because charging give them necessary bonuses for THC, which result in 100% interrupt with adequate damage + 3 turn with high PER.
Bows: they become best damage dealers on large distances, using 3 moves, head shots and charge bonuses. Sniper weapon basically.
Crossbows: best AP drainers, poison and debuff distributors in the game. Suppressive fire + staggering stack can reduce your enemy AP to 0 in one turn. Best for teams.
Throwing: support weapon recommended to be used by everyone. Best first turn burst damage, because of this +20 (or even more) and complete DR bypass. Can kill almost any enemy in one turn. Best for teams.
Dodge: dodge core stay the same. Read DEX paragraph.
Block: core changed. Read passive defense bonuses, STR and CON paragraph. Block receive +25 basic bonus instead of +15.
CS: critical strike is very important now, and receive many bonuses. Best for pining down archers. Read flanking, charged, AoO, flanking sections.
Alchemy and crafting: read respectible sections in original post.
Enemy types: all enemies was same before. There was only two types: melee and range without any distinction whatsoever. You can see difference between critters, but humans feels unique only in Emperor encounter, where passives proc like 50% of the times. All this things stated above will help to enrich game with missing depth and make every enemy feel unique. (read original post and examples for more)

 

[Eyestabber]

Finally had some time to work on the guide. New spear section, including my Ironman run. :D

I'll (finally) be on vacation from work next week, which means I'll have time to update this thread a bit more often. That is, until I go Scuba Diving in December :D

 

[Tigranes]

What are the rules of thumb for sword/dodge solo? Are you really supposed to stack bleeding to get through the day? For example, 8 dodge gives you survivability for ant queen and Barca, but then you're stuck with ~18% bleedin chance which isn't reliable.

Also, unlike daggers, arterial strike doesn't seem to be answer, rather whatever swing is the fastest and goes through armour? Seems like then CS is only a bonus later on?

 

[Eyestabber]

What are the rules of thumb for sword/dodge solo? Are you really supposed to stack bleeding to get through the day? For example, 8 dodge gives you survivability for ant queen and Barca, but then you're stuck with ~18% bleedin chance which isn't reliable.

Also, unlike daggers, arterial strike doesn't seem to be answer, rather whatever swing is the fastest and goes through armour? Seems like then CS is only a bonus later on?

I messed a little with swords. I would say don't go with less than 10 DEX and go for dodge. Sword of choice early on is either the Shamshir or the new one (with extra damage and THC). Later on, Kopesh 4lyfe.

With crafting 4 and sword 5 you will be able to have 38% bleed chance with a masterwork/balanced Shamshir which is...not bad? Arterial strike is not the answer because you're not adding the passive % to CS, like the dagger does, which results in less CS chance. And CS is "just a bonus later on" for pretty much everyone, not just swords.

 

[Tigranes]

Thanks, sounds logical. Faring much better with 6/10/8/10/4/2 focusing on dodge skill early, had to use the neurostimulant to kill the ant queen fast enough but then blew through Barca and Roxana fights without issue, there's a real step up when you can finally choose your equipment/craft it.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Sword + dodge is second best build after spear, as I said before. I recommended to go with 4/10/10/10/4/2, but 6 STR is ok too. Try crossbow + dodge next time. It's lot of fun.

 

[Whisper]

2 turns of liquid fire instead of 4?

 

[Fenix]

Exactly my face when I saw it.

 

[kryminator]

The Gorza is the only hammer that can be placed in a belt slot.

Not that it changes much, but there is another one called Marcullus or sth like that.

 

[Whisper]

Exactly my face when I saw it.

When they talk about changes to Alchemy i thought they wanted to nerf 11 hp/turn poison.

This is unexpected, no more cheesing some fights.