Eyestabber's in-depth guide to DR/AoD mechanics

[Lurker King]

With spearman its 1 berserk potion. They kill themselves.

Is this true? Whoa! I didn't know you could add these potions to your weapons. I tried to use it on my spear, it didn't work.

With sub-par builds you can lure them to doorway and kill 1 by 1.

 

[Lurker King]

IMHO dodge dominance is only a thing in Rock Bottom, simply because you don't have a decent armor + shield so non-perfect blocks don't do much for you. All things being equal, block will outperform dodge because of the +15 base. I agree with the posters on ITS forum: block needs to be viable for solo. Currently it isn't.

I disagree. Dodgers are more powerful than ever. I'm a blockfan, but I have to concede. With dodge you have counter-attacks, don't need to invest in crafting or repair your shield. Dodge is governed by DEX, which is a stat that everyone will invest to have more action points and initiative, while block is governed by strength. This implies that if you decide to play on solo with a blocker, you can't have 10 on DEX or INT in order to increase STR. Of course, you can go on with a low STR and make it work, but it is a shitty build. The fact that you can only receive better weapons and shields later, and that you need to conquest the forges in order to make proper armor, make crafting a pointless investement. You are better investing on alchemy and, after that, critical strike. Take the good stuff from the bodies of your enemies.

 

[Lurker King]

ComradeReptiloid, now I understand why we were struggling with blockers on solo. Investing on crafting in the first half is mostly pointless. We should invest on alchemy instead. By the time you face the forge, you can have 8 points in alchemy if you invested 4 in crafting. It's more than enough. After you max alchemy, invest on critical strike to increase your chances with aimed attacks.

 

[Whisper]

Critical strike is worthless except dagger build or if melee with 10 crafting. End game enemies have high vs defence, also high defence so you rely on fast attacks

 

[TigerKnee]

Critical strike is worthless except dagger build or if melee with 10 crafting. End game enemies have high vs defence, also high defence so you rely on fast attacks

Well, time to ditch this character unless they drop the numbers in a future patch.

 

[agris]

I finished my 2nd play through of DR, this time solo/hard. It's been years since I've beaten a game twice back-to-back.

Used a spear dodger 6(9)/10/9/9/4/2. Trident was by far the most useful weapon, followed by the hasta.

I kept spear and dodge at R9 until after the emperor, and alchemy at 4 which let me hit 10 crafting just after the enforcer fight. I was worried I wouldn't gain SP fast enough to get much use out of 10 crafting, but I did. It wasn't very hard this time around, easier than playing with a party of 4. Sometimes the strategies are counter-intuitive to me, like charging the crossbowmen in the molerat fight where you have 4 xbows on your flanks, and a heavy armored hammer guy in the center. The fights were you couldn't pull back were definitely the hardest, and I don't think I could have beaten the three worm encounter guarding the crafting chest the first go-around. I had to wait and take it from the other side.

I'll probably play DR again, but only after the final patch. Same for AoD.


edit: for anyone else under the same misconception as me, you can use the glowing jars to raise STR/DEX/CON any number of times up to 10, you aren't limited to just +1 per ability. I don't know why I thought that, but my killing power went through the roof when I went from 6 to 9 STR.

 

[AbounI]

Also, Sunfire Alchemy guide might be useful for the new comers
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=834472803

Alchemy Techniques & Reagents
Healing salve

Base reagent: Cassava Root

Restorative Liniment
+
Base reagent: Cassava Root
Modifier reagent: Goldenberry

Regeneration potion
+
Base reagent: Cassava Root
Modifier reagent: Amaranthus Extract

Berserk Potion


Base reagent: Blood Mushroom

Extended berserk potion
+

Base reagent: Blood Mushroom
Modifier reagent: Emoryl Root

Berserk Potion Hemostasis
+

Base reagent: Blood Mushroom
Modifier reagent: Fennah Berries

Neurostimulant


Base reagent: Quicksilver Roots

Extended Neurostimulant
+

Base reagent: Quicksilver Roots
Modifier reagent: Emoryl Root

Eagle Eye Neurostimulant
+

Base reagent: Quicksilver Roots
Modifier reagent: Dragon's Blood Extract

Poison Vial
or

Base reagent: Kadura Leaves or A poisoned stinger

Antidote
+

Base reagent: Kadura Leaves or A poisoned stinger
Modifier reagent: Avatera Sprouts

Potent poison vial
+

Base reagent: Kadura Leaves or A poisoned stinger
Modifier reagent: Emoryl Root

Acid Vial


Base reagent: Sulfur

Splash Acid Vial
+

Base reagent: Sulfur
Modifier reagent: Fools' Gold

Strong Acid Vial
+

Base reagent: Sulfur
Modifier reagent: Salt Petrae

Liquid fire


Base reagent: Rock Oil

Strong liquid fire
+

Base reagent: Rock Oil
Modifier reagent: Sulfur

Burning liquid fire
+

Base reagent: Rock Oil
Modifier reagent: Quicklime

Black powder bomb


Base reagent: Black Powder

Black powder bomb frag
+

Base reagent: Black Powder
Modifier reagent: Iron Balls

Strong black powder bomb
+

Base reagent: Black Powder
Modifier reagent: Salt Petrae
Alchemy Skill Levells 1-7: Items & Their Statistics
Alchemy Skill Level 1

- Healing Salve - Heals HP 5

Alchemy Skill Level 2
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 15

- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 30% - THC penalty 25% - Duration turns 3
- Poison Vial - Damage 3 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3

Alchemy Skill Level 3
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 15

- Restorative Liniment - Heals stat penalties for 1 point
- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 30% - THC penalty 25% - Duration turns 3
- Neurostimulant - AP bonus 2 - Duration turns 2
- Poison Vial - Damage 3 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3
- Antidote - Decreases poison level by 20
- Acid Vial - Melts DR 1 - Damage to HP 3-3
- Liquid Fire Vial - Damage 2-5

Alchemy Skill Level 4
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 20
- Restorative Liniment - Heals stat penalties for 1 point
- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 30% - THC penalty 20% - Duration turns 3

- Neurostimulant - AP bonus 2 - Duration turns 2
- Neurostimulant (Extended) - AP bonus 2 - Duration turns 3
- Poison Vial - Damage 5 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3
- Antidote - Decreases poison level by 20
- Acid Vial - Melts DR 1 - Damage to HP 3-3
- Liquid Fire Vial - Damage 2-5
- Black Powder Bomb - Damage 15-20 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%

Alchemy Skill Level 5
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 20
- Restorative Liniment - Heals stat penalties for 2 points
- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 30% - THC penalty 20% - Duration turns 3
- Berserk Potion (Extended) - Damage bonus 30% - THC penalty 20% - Duration turns 4
- Neurostimulant - AP bonus 3 - Duration turns 2
- Neurostimulant (Extended) - AP bonus 3 - Duration turns 3

- Poison Vial - Damage 5 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3
- Antidote - Decreases poison level by 40
- Acid Vial - Melts DR 2 - Damage to HP 3-3
- Liquid Fire Vial - Damage 3-7
- Black Powder Bomb - Damage 15-20 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%

Alchemy Skill Level 6
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 25
- Restorative Liniment - Heals stat penalties for 2 points
- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 35% - THC penalty 20% - Duration turns 3
- Berserk Potion (Extended) - Damage bonus 35% - THC penalty 20% - Duration turns 4
- Neurostimulant - AP bonus 3 - Duration turns 2
- Neurostimulant (Extended) - AP bonus 3 - Duration turns 3
- Neurostimulant (Eagle Eye) - AP bonus 3 - THC bonus 15 - Duration turns 2
- Poison Vial - Damage 7 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3

- Antidote - Decreases poison level by 40
- Acid Vial - Melts DR 2 - Damage to HP 3-3
- Acid Vial (Splash) - Melts DR 2 - Damage to HP 2-2
- Liquid Fire Vial - Damage 3-7
- Liquid Fire Vial (Strong) - Damage 8-12
- Black Powder Bomb - Damage 15-20 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%
- Black Powder Bomb (Frag) - Damage 15-20 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 125%

Alchemy Skill Level 7
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 25
- Restorative Liniment - Heals stat penalties for 3 points

- Regeneration Potion - Lowers max HP by 5 - 1 HP regeneration per turn
- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 35% - THC penalty 20% - Duration turns 3
- Berserk Potion (Extended) - Damage bonus 35% - THC penalty 20% - Duration turns 4
- Berserk Potion (Hemostasis) - Natural DR bonus 2 - Lose HP when the effect ends 10 - Duration turns 3
- Neurostimulant - AP bonus 4 - Duration turns 2
- Neurostimulant (Extended) - AP bonus 4 - Duration turns 3
- Neurostimulant (Eagle Eye) - AP bonus 4 - THC bonus 15 - Duration turns 2
- Poison Vial - Damage 7 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3
- Antidote - Decreases poison level by 60
- Acid Vial - Melts DR 3 - Damage to HP 3-3
- Acid Vial (Splash) - Melts DR 3 - Damage to HP 2-2
- Liquid Fire Vial - Damage 4-9
- Liquid Fire Vial (Strong) - Damage 9-14
- Black Powder Bomb - Damage 20-25 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%
- Black Powder Bomb (Frag) - Damage 20-25 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 125%
Alchemy Skill Levels 8-10: Items & Their Statistics
Alchemy Skill Level 8
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 30
- Restorative Liniment - Heals stat penalties for 3 points
- Regeneration Potion - Lowers max HP by 5 - 1 HP regeneration per turn
- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 35% - THC penalty 15% - Duration turns 3
- Berserk Potion (Extended) - Damage bonus 35% - THC penalty 15% - Duration turns 4
- Berserk Potion (Hemostasis) - Natural DR bonus 2 - Lose HP when the effect ends 10 - Duration turns 3
- Neurostimulant - AP bonus 4 - Duration turns 2
- Neurostimulant (Extended) - AP bonus 4 - Duration turns 4
- Neurostimulant (Eagle Eye) - AP bonus 4 - THC bonus 15 - Duration turns 2
- Poison Vial - Damage 9 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3
- Antidote - Decreases poison level by 60

- Acid Vial - Melts DR 3 - Damage to HP 3-3
- Acid Vial (Splash) - Melts DR 3 - Damage to HP 2-2
- Liquid Fire Vial - Damage 4-9
- Liquid Fire Vial (Strong) - Damage 9-14
- Liquid Fire Vial (Burning) - Damage 4-9 - Burning damage (3 turns) 1-3
- Black Powder Bomb - Damage 20-25 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%
- Black Powder Bomb (Frag) - Damage 20-25 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 125%
- Black Powder Bomb (Strong) - Damage 20-25 - 13 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%

Alchemy Skill Level 9
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 30
- Restorative Liniment - Heals stat penalties for 4 points
- Regeneration Potion - Lowers max HP by 5 - 1 HP regeneration per turn
- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 35% - THC penalty 15% - Duration turns 3
- Berserk Potion (Extended) - Damage bonus 35% - THC penalty 15% - Duration turns 5
- Berserk Potion (Hemostasis) - Natural DR bonus 2 - Lose HP when the effect ends 10 - Duration turns 3
- Neurostimulant - AP bonus 5 - Duration turns 2
- Neurostimulant (Extended) - AP bonus 5 - Duration turns 4
- Neurostimulant (Eagle Eye) - AP bonus 5 - THC bonus 15 - Duration turns 2
- Poison Vial - Damage 9 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3
- Antidote - Decreases poison level by 80
- Poison Vial (Potent) - Damage 9 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 5
- Acid Vial - Melts DR 4 - Damage to HP 3-3
- Acid Vial (Splash) - Melts DR 4 - Damage to HP 2-2
- Acid Vial (Strong) - Melts DR 7 - Damage to HP 4-4

- Liquid Fire Vial - Damage 5-11
- Liquid Fire Vial (Strong) - Damage 10-16
- Liquid Fire Vial (Burning) - Damage 5-11 - Burning damage (3 turns) 1-3
- Black Powder Bomb - Damage 20-25 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%
- Black Powder Bomb (Frag) - Damage 20-25 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 125%
- Black Powder Bomb (Strong) - Damage 20-25 - 13 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%

Alchemy Skill Level 10
- Healing Salve - Heals HP 40
- Restorative Liniment - Heals stat penalties for 5 points
- Regeneration Potion - Lowers max HP by 8 - 2 HP regeneration per turn
- Berserk Potion - Damage bonus 40% - THC penalty 10% - Duration turns 3
- Berserk Potion (Extended) - Damage bonus 40% - THC penalty 10% - Duration turns 5
- Berserk Potion (Hemostasis) - Natural DR bonus 3 - Lose HP when the effect ends 5 - Duration turns 3
- Neurostimulant - AP bonus 6 - Duration turns 2
- Neurostimulant (Extended) - AP bonus 6 - Duration turns 4
- Neurostimulant (Eagle Eye) - AP bonus 6 - THC bonus 25 - Duration turns 2
- Poison Vial - Damage 11 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 3
- Antidote - Decreases poison level by 100
- Poison Vial (Potent) - Damage 11 - Strikes 20 - Duration turns 5
- Acid Vial - Melts DR 5 - Damage to HP 3-3
- Acid Vial (Splash) - Melts DR 5 - Damage to HP 2-2
- Acid Vial (Strong) - Melts DR 8 - Damage to HP 4-4
- Liquid Fire Vial - Damage 6-12
- Liquid Fire Vial (Strong) - Damage 11-17
- Liquid Fire Vial (Burning) - Damage 6-12 - Burning damage (3 turns) 1-3

- Black Powder Bomb - Damage 25-30 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%
- Black Powder Bomb (Frag) - Damage 25-30 - 5 tiles - Weapon Hardness 125%
- Black Powder Bomb (Strong) - Damage 25-30 - 13 tiles - Weapon Hardness 75%

 

[HeatEXTEND]

dude nice

 

[Stellavore]

Can anyone reccomend a do everything build? Probably for psycho or tough guy non-solo? By do everything i mean pass all of the meaningful stat checks/not spend 4 hrs trying to roll perfect rng on fights, i dont have time to play DR multiple times. Ive been messing around with a 4 10 4 10 4 8 xbow/dodge/alch build but am considering swapping to melee as ive heard one of the best npcs in the game is a xbow build and most of the melee characters seem underwhelming.

 

[Fenix]

Didn't find anything aboout mobility bonus - how it works? Add defence rating for every empty tile around you, or something more difficult?
Somethime game shows this bonus, sometime is not.

 

[Eyestabber]

Didn't find anything aboout mobility bonus - how it works? Add defence rating for every empty tile around you, or something more difficult?
Somethime game shows this bonus, sometime is not.

Mobility bonus is given when you have free squares near your character. So being against a wall or being fully surrounded = no mob bonus.

 

[Fenix]

It's quite sagnificant I must say - +24 defence rating. Two levels of skill.

 

[Dr Skeleton]

Am I missing something or perception is not really worth it for a melee character? +5 attack to everything looks good on paper but the stat tied to your chosen weapon type (strength or dexterity) gives you +3, a defensive bonus and AP/damage bonus.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Am I missing something or perception is not really worth it for a melee character? +5 attack to everything looks good on paper but the stat tied to your chosen weapon type (strength or dexterity) gives you +3, a defensive bonus and AP/damage bonus.

Not worth it unless factoring in non-combat stuff.

 

[agris]

Am I missing something or perception is not really worth it for a melee character? +5 attack to everything looks good on paper but the stat tied to your chosen weapon type (strength or dexterity) gives you +3, a defensive bonus and AP/damage bonus.

IMO, both are required for a 'good' combat character. Per set to 4 and a good STR/DEX will not make a strong combat character. Especially if you're doing solo. If your character is more utilitarian, that balance changes in favor for STR/DEX probably. There's a few PER checks for items in the game, but nothing profound as far as I remember.

 

[Dr Skeleton]

It's my first playthrough, I've only done a short test run with a sword+shield character to see how things work. I have STR 6 DEX 10 CON 5 PER 6 INT 5 CHA 8, spears and dodge. I'll probably do a solo run with a different character later because I'm loving the game so far.

 

[Trash Player]

Am I missing something or perception is not really worth it for a melee character? +5 attack to everything looks good on paper but the stat tied to your chosen weapon type (strength or dexterity) gives you +3, a defensive bonus and AP/damage bonus.

IMO, both are required for a 'good' combat character. Per set to 4 and a good STR/DEX will not make a strong combat character. Especially if you're doing solo. If your character is more utilitarian, that balance changes in favor for STR/DEX probably. There's a few PER checks for items in the game, but nothing profound as far as I remember.

For DR: There are not quite enough Sps for a solo run, so Int is more favored than Per. For group run, it just plain doesn't matter.
For AoD: The bonus Sps and loot might be worth it for some build but AoD gives the player crap tons of resources, it doesn't matter.
Put it into perspective, Per gives +5 to Att, +10 CS to aimed: Torso/Arterial, and Initiative for a Melee character. It is worse than physical stats in a powergaming sense, especially in AoD.
Watch the better players on youtube if still in doubt.

 

[vazha]

About to start playing Dungeon Rats - Can anyone explain whether aimed attacks: arms is cumulative?

 

[Blackmill]

About to start playing Dungeon Rats - Can anyone explain whether aimed attacks: arms is cumulative?

I'm pretty sure the debuff from multiple aimed attacks at arms or legs stacks cumulatively, if that's what you're asking, though I haven't played in at least a year.

 

[Absinthe]

About to start playing Dungeon Rats - Can anyone explain whether aimed attacks: arms is cumulative?

Aimed attack penalties are cumulative, yes. And it is dumb as hell what you can achieve by stacking aimed strikes. Who needs fast attacks when you can stack aimed strikes on the legs anyway. Just make sure you have at least a 4AP weapon for bigger debuffs and maybe carry nets to start your aimed strike spree.

 

[vazha]

I see. So if thats the case, then it seems to me that with high dodge and ap 4 hammer you can potentially render everyone harmless, alternating between legs & arms aimed attacks, correct? even uber armored ones, because hammer reduces dr.

 

[Absinthe]

I see. So if thats the case, then it seems to me that with high dodge and ap 4 hammer you can potentially render everyone harmless, alternating between legs & arms aimed attacks, correct? even uber armored ones, because hammer reduces dr.

That's exactly what I usually do, but I would recommend daggers or swords over hammers for this usually. Slow daggers are best for critting aimed strikes. And swords do stack bleeding damage on enemies which also bypasses armor. Also aimed strikes to arms, legs, and head get a bonus or penalty from strength. Aimed strikes to arteries and torso use perception for bonus crit. If you use a lot of crit the weapon special is wasted though and I would recommend using either a spear or an axe if you just want a big 2H for giant penalties. Axes aren't much good but at least its weapon mastery doesn't go to waste with high crit (you cannot trigger weapon mastery and crit on the same blow). Crossbows always use perception for aimed strikes though, so if you want to dump strength crossbow aimed strike builds are an option as long as you get 10 perception and high dex.

 

[vazha]

But neither of those offer dr the way hammer does & perfect escape route via knockdown (pity about that one tile slide tho).

As for cs, maybe I am doing smth wrong but playing solo I am extremely sp starved. Got dodge to max, hammer to 9 and alchemy to 4 and still cant do shit against the enforcers mob (ran out of bombs in previous fight and his alchemist offs me once I am done with other melees).

Build 10 10 7 6 4 4, thought about using them jars to up my con, but havent been able to invest a single point in crafting so far.

 

[Absinthe]

DR denting is a slow accumulation, which is ironically better to proc with fast crafted hammer strikes, even though smaller hammers tend to be worse for penetrating DR. Swords on the other hand give you an extra 6 stacking damage whenever you get a weapon mastery effect. And if you crit, you ignore DR with normal attacks (and you don't get weapon mastery on a crit). Aimed strikes to the torso also ignore a lot of DR even without critting. Crossbows and bows can use piercing projectiles that ignore large portions of DR on top of whatever you get from aimed strikes to the torso if you want. The ultimate in DR negation though is either stacking crit or using thrown weapons with high crafting and high throwing skill. Their entire weapon mastery effect is to ignore DR.

 

[vazha]

What is weapon mastery? Do you mean the weapon passive?