Fallout Fallout 2 is way worse than I remember it.

[Beans00]

I had to memorize that for calculus 2 and you have trouble remembering. 1- sneak, 2- lockpick 3- steal 8-repair ect...?

This is a bit off-topic, but more than half of those equations are unnecessary. The fact that someone is memorizing all of that by rote is a good indication that they don't understand what trigonometric functions are.

Well good sir. I am duly sorry to hear that you happen to disagree with me.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Dialogue checks in FO1 existed and were just "hidden." Unless you reloaded and explored options, you may never find them unless you look them up. The game also doesn't communicate it to you. You might play a high Cha run and find out that one option got you an easy outcome while it does nothing for you in a low cha playthrough as you get a different response. I think the true is same for 2 if I remember correctly. Also, your outdoorsman skill goes through checks every time you travel on the overworld. The gambling skill works whenever you gamble of course. Your first aid and doctor skills work when you use first aid kits or doctor's bags on yourself. Lockpick is for opening things. Explosives is for opening things. Traps is for finding and disarming traps. Etc. The way skill checks are presented in Obsidian games after as just an "I win" option in dialogue if you had the right number like after KOTOR2 is a total meme.

 

[The_Mask]

I don't know, I don't think I'll ever forget:

moment 1: I smashed a child's head, and the game allowed me. I was in my teens and I started laughing.

moment 2: I drugged myself to epic amounts of END, CHA, STR and a bit of AGI I think, and just casually became a "world renowned porn star" and, also a fluffer. Again, I was in my teens and I was amazed that a game let you do that.

moment 3: when it casually teaches you why you should always practice safe sex.




I mean... I can think of worse games. Just sayin'.

 

[None]

You aren't wrong to point out the flaws and shortcomings of Fallout 2, but "way worse than I remember"? No video game is perfect, so just how much hype/nostalgia did you buy into?

 

[Jacob]

Joined:
Jul 30, 2007

 

[Mud']

What would a better game than fallout 2 be?

ATOM, for me is better than FO2 with the same scope.

 

[Trashos]

The criticism of skill checks is legit, and I much prefer the way they were handled in New Vegas. FO2 was big enough to have a lot of use for each skill, but that wasn't the focus of the design back then. And yes, some skills should have been merged.

(Although note that traps are handled by the Explosives skill in FONV. I have never actually looked into it, but I don't think that the Sneak skill has anything to do with traps.)

From the games I have played at least, it generally looks like skills had to "mature", and later good games handle them much better. The groundwork that showcased the potential had already been laid of course.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

But if we'd hate RPGs on basis of having bad gameplay/combat, what would be left to play?

Dragon's Dogma.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Original Fallout skill system if very flawed for obvious reasons, but aiming such criticism specifically at F2 is pretty weird, since it actually did quite a lot to improve the situation from F1. FNV is different, because it does a pretty great job making most skills actually important and impactful, but it pussies out of checks being actual checks cause you can easily pass all of them without much effort/powergaming.

 

[Humbaba]

Wait a minute Arcanum isn't better than Fallout 2.

 

[anvi]

Old RPGs are so old!

 

[undecaf]

Fallout 2 is way worse than I remember it.

No it isn’t.

No.
It isn’t.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Don't get mad, Hakunin. Your're dead anyway.

 

[Gerrard]

No one is safe from the brain-rotting touch of decline.

F2 is okay for what it wants to be but clear decline coming from F1.

-Post apoc tribals with shamans and shit?
-30s Chicago mobsters?
-Chinatown martial art movie stuff?
-Scientology?
-Talking Deathclaws?

Come on, guys.

You really need to be living in a cave not to see how dumb the average human is. Vegans, flat earthers, science worshippers, and you think shamanism (after the collapse of civilization) is improbable?

 

[Ismaul]

I don't know what's up with this new trend that appeared a few years ago arguing that Fallout 2 and Baldur's Gate 2 are shit while Fallout and Baldur's Gate are great. I seem to remember that Vault Dweller was among the first to whine about how Fallout 1 was perfect and Fallout 2 ruined everything, while Lilura is the most vocal in her trying-too-hard criticism of BG2 as compared to BG1.

It's not a new trend.

The BG series, especially BG2, was seen as inferior in the beginnings of the Codex, and Biowhores were laughed at, though that changed later with the influx of newfags. Fallout has always been the gold standard here, and the debate on whether FO2 was an overall incline (because of quest and system design) or a decline (because of the worldbuilding and story) was there from the start.

 

[almondblight]

I can safely say that if any of this stuff ended up in a Bethesda Fallout game, people would still be mocking it today:

-Post apoc tribals with shamans and shit?
-30s Chicago mobsters?
-Chinatown martial art movie stuff?
-Scientology?
-Talking Deathclaws?

moment 2: I drugged myself to epic amounts of END, CHA, STR and a bit of AGI I think, and just casually became a "world renowned porn star" and, also a fluffer. Again, I was in my teens and I was amazed that a game let you do that.

moment 3: when it casually teaches you why you should always practice safe sex.

 

[zool]

I don't know what's up with this new trend that appeared a few years ago arguing that Fallout 2 and Baldur's Gate 2 are shit while Fallout and Baldur's Gate are great. I seem to remember that Vault Dweller was among the first to whine about how Fallout 1 was perfect and Fallout 2 ruined everything, while Lilura is the most vocal in her trying-too-hard criticism of BG2 as compared to BG1.

It's not a new trend.

The BG series, especially BG2, was seen as inferior in the beginnings of the Codex, and Biowhores were laughed at, though that changed later with the influx of newfags. Fallout has always been the gold standard here, and the debate on whether FO2 was an overall incline (because of quest and system design) or a decline (because of the worldbuilding and story) was there from the start.

Precisely, there was a debate before about FO1 vs FO2, which is better and why, etc. Now, thanks to the intense propaganda of a select few appealing to the inner snobism of the Codex hivemind, it has come to the point that the fact that FO1 is the gold standard and FO2 is pure decline is been slowly accepted as an unalterable truth.

As for BG, what you're saying is true but what we're talking about here is not whether the BG series is good but whether it is really that true that the original BG was great while BG2 is a terrible game.

 

[Ismaul]

Precisely, there was a debate before about FO1 vs FO2, which is better and why, etc. Now, thanks to the intense propaganda of a select few appealing to the inner snobism of the Codex hivemind, it has come to the point that the fact that FO1 is the gold standard and FO2 is pure decline is been slowly accepted as an unalterable truth.

No, FO1 was always the gold standard by which other games were measured. Everyone agreed that FO1 is great and was a pure incline. Not so with FO2. Whatever it inclined was bundled with a bunch of decline.

That's why FO1 is the classic. It has nothing to do with "propaganda" or "snobism". It's simply the rational conclusion given the facts. What you call the truth of the hivemind we call consensus, the result of a long debate. Now you may disagree because you favor some features and feel what has declined in FO2 isn't that important, but that's like, your opinion, man. And you're free to argue it, I don't see the problem.

 

[madbringer]

Precisely, there was a debate before about FO1 vs FO2, which is better and why, etc. Now, thanks to the intense propaganda of a select few appealing to the inner snobism of the Codex hivemind, it has come to the point that the fact that FO1 is the gold standard and FO2 is pure decline is been slowly accepted as an unalterable truth.

No, FO1 was always the gold standard by which other games were measured. Everyone agreed that FO1 is great and was a pure incline. Not so with FO2. Whatever it inclined was bundled with a bunch of decline.

That's why FO1 is the classic. It has nothing to do with "propaganda" or "snobism". It's simply the rational conclusion given the facts. What you call the truth of the hivemind we call consensus, the result of a long debate. Now you may disagree because you favor some features and feel what has declined in FO2 isn't that important, but that's like, your opinion, man. And you're free to argue it, I don't see the problem.

I will definitely agree that FO1 is a classic and one of the best RPGs ever, but calling FO2 decline is a bit too much. It was definitely less focused, less polished and overall worse, but still a great game. However, ur point against this retard still stands.

 

[Ismaul]

calling FO2 decline is a bit too much

Decline compared to the original.

Compared to our current day standards, hell, it's unfathomable incline.

 

[samuraigaiden]

or memorizing the hotkey

Can you imagine a game actually asking you to store information in your brain?

 

[madbringer]

calling FO2 decline is a bit too much

Decline compared to the original.

Compared to our current day standards, hell, it's unfathomable incline.

Fair enough.

 

[Humbaba]

Decline compared to the original.

Compared to our current day standards, hell, it's unfathomable incline.

What you are implying is that what was once decline can become incline. In turn this means that the terms incline and decline have no real meaning beyond the whims of the codex devaluing both the terms and the discussions held by the members of this esteemed club of ours. Yours is a dangerous line of thought and I say you should be branded a heretic, even killed maybe.

 

[agris]

Decline compared to the original.

Compared to our current day standards, hell, it's unfathomable incline.

What you are implying is that what was once decline can become incline. In turn this means that the terms incline and decline have no real meaning beyond the whims of the codex devaluing both the terms and the discussions held by the members of this esteemed club of ours. Yours is a dangerous line of thought and I say you should be branded a heretic, even killed maybe.

relative value vs absolute value is not a new concept, nor a progenitor towards societal collapse.

 

[Inconceivable]

I'm gonna have to play Fallout 1 and 2 some day to unleash holy judgement on threads like these.