Incline Fallout 2 Mechanics Overhaul Mod Discussion

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I've finished the tile categorization thing, but I still don't have a clear idea of what I'm going to with it. In terms of setting traps I was thinking this, but it's pretty arbitrary:

easiest: shrubs
easy: dirt/grass
medium: wood/carpet/matresses
hard: stone
hardest: metal

As for sneaking, I want to have sound play a role in which way a critter is facing. If it can hear you (influenced by distance/tile material/sneaking skill/critter perception, not sure if actively sneaking will be something that plays a role, or whether you're running/walking/standing) then it immediately turns in your direction, meaning they can spot you. This also works with non-humanoids of course (so avoiding the geckos when filling the still might become trickier). Of course, this also makes stealing trickier because if you're too loud they'll never have their backs turned to you. To avoid sneaking becoming an absolute must for a stealing character, I was thinking about also making room for a charismatic thief: if your charisma is higher than a (human) critter's intelligence (with some distance modifiers), then you're inconspicuous enough for them to ignore you, meaning they won't turn towards you. The material effects I was thinking about (even more arbitrary; no idea what I'm doing):

softest: stone/grass
soft: dirt/carpet
medium: metal
loud: shrubs/matresses
loudest: wood

edit: someone at NMA pointed out that armor should also factor into the sound you're making, so that's a good point. He also called the sound element overkill though, anybody else think so?

Anybody willing to help me out? DraQ (sorry for tagging you all the time, let me know if I should stop)?

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

The ranting continues. As I'm changing a couple of skills, I had to find a way to give critters new skill values by script. Doing so I realized how crappy I think the skill value calculations are, mainly because the base value/attribute multipliers ratio is often way too skewed towards the former: a 1 AG and 1 ST character starts with a melee skill of 55%, and a 10 ST and 10 AG character starts with 65%. This type of thing makes stat allocation completely irrelevant to the skills you get; it ends up being all about Intelligence in the end. Besides that there's also a couple of really weird attribute associations (Endurance helps your outdoorsman skill?). I decided to replace it all with something much more simple than the original: every skill has a base value of 10%, then a combination (always 4 in total) of associated attribute gets added to it:

edit: revised list after someone at NMA made a good point about needing to include luck more.

Big Guns: ST + AG*2 + PE
Rifles: AG*2 + PE*2
Pistols/SMG's: AG*3 + PE
Heavy Melee: ST*3 + AG
Light Melee: ST + AG*3
Unarmed: ST*2 + AG*2
Doctor: PE*2 + IN*2
First Aid: PE*2 + IN + AG
Lockpicking: PE*2 + AG + LU
Repair: IN + PE*2 + LU
Science: IN*3 + PE
Sneak: AG*3 + LU
Steal: AG*2 + PE + LU
Traps: AG + PE*2 + LU
Barter: CH*3 + PE
Leadership: CH*4
Outdoorsman: IN + PE*2 + LU
Speech: CH*4

I need this type of regularity to make AI bonus skills work out properly. First, (non-partymember) critters get added to this a base bonus of 30. Then, every 400 xp value they have gives an additional attribute multiplier. So, Metzger's thugs get a pistol/smg skill of (a base of 10+6+7*3 and an additional 30+6*0.175+7*0.525)=71, while the strongest Enclave guards get (10+9+10*3+30+10*1.875+9*5.625)=148.

 

[DraQ]

I was thinking about also making room for a charismatic thief: if your charisma is higher than a (human) critter's intelligence (with some distance modifiers), then you're inconspicuous enough for them to ignore you, meaning they won't turn towards you.

Maybe throw local reputation into the formula somewhere. It's easier to make yourself not suspicious if they have no reason to expect the worst from you.

Of course, that may inadvertently feed the dreaded cleptomaniac hero archetype, so I think it's important to have initially hidden delayed consequences and modes of failure for crime.

Anybody willing to help me out? DraQ (sorry for tagging you all the time, let me know if I should stop)?

As long as you don't mind me ignoring it if I have nothing interesting to add it's not a problem for me either.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

The one-two handed switch mechanic I introduced a while back was a bit half-assed, and I've done a couple of improvements: (1) it's manual now instead of automatic, which made it less interesting: press left alt + h and you switch (on a side note, all the key bindings I'm working on involve left alt, which might become a problem for linux users), and this choice gets stored in a global variable and (2) the min ST value of the weapon adjusts based on whether you're using it one-handed or two-handed, so you don't have to do any calculations yourself. I've also changed the differences between the two a bit:

1-handed: costs 3 AP to reload (except magnums, unless they're speedloaded), cost 1 less AP to attack, gives a bonus to dodging or blocking, can use second weapon slot.
2-handed: adds a to-hit bonus with ranged weapons or a damage bonus with melee weapons.

I've also tweaked the calculation for the min strengths a bit, making 2-handed strength reqs a bit lower, and the one-handed ones either higher for rifles and big guns, or lower for pistols or knives. Some examples again:

Spoiler

Old Min Str Values:

Laser Rifle: 6
Shotgun: 4
H&K G11: 5
Assault Rifle: 5
10MM SMG: 5
10MM Pistol: 3
Sledgehammer: 6
Spear: 4
Minigun: 7
Flamer: 6
Sniper Rifle: 5
Turbo Plasma Rifle: 6
Crowbar: 5
Combat Knife: 2
223 pistol: 5

New Min Str Values (Two-handed, One-handed):

Laser Rifle: 4, 17
Shotgun: 2, 8
H&K G11: 2, 10
Assault Rifle: 2, 13
10MM SMG: 1, 6
10MM Pistol: 1, 3
Sledgehammer: 4, 16
Spear: 1, 6
Minigun: 9, 34
Flamer: 6, 25
Sniper Rifle: 2, 13
Turbo Plasma Rifle: 4, 19
Crowbar: 1, 6
Combat Knife: x, 2 (knives can't be used with 2 hands)
223 Pistol: 1, 7

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

So, I've been thinking about what to do with perception in hth combat. Right now it's just a THC bonus, which is kind of boring, so I think I'm going to make perception help you perceive an enemy's (defensive) actions. The higher your perception, the higher the chance is that you will know whether your opponent will try to block or dodge your next attack. You can then adapt to this by thrusting (against blocks) or swinging (against dodges). To accomodate this new system, I'd remove weapon type from the dodge/block equation, and make it all about two things: attack type (thrust vs. swing, which all hth weapons, including unarmed ones, will get; even spears will have it in the form of 2-handed use not allowing for throwing, but for "swinging" instead), and character type (slow and strong makes for better blocking, weak and nimble for dodging). The AI will of course choose his attack based on your character type, but he'll never be so stupid to go for 100% one attack/defense type; he'll always switch it up now and again, always making perception important.

edit: hmm... now I'm starting to rethink the whole rock paper scissors aspect of perception here. I guess I'd make swing more accurate and thrust more penetrating (ap cost and damage already being covered by handedness), but that'd just mean you'd still always thrust against armored opposition, and dodge against a stronger opponent who'd always break through your block with his strength... have to think on this.

Also, after someone over at NMA pointed out that the 2-handed min str values were a bit too low for a lot of guns, I changed the formula for it a bit, new examples:

Spoiler

Old Min Str Values:

Laser Rifle: 6
Shotgun: 4
H&K G11: 5
Assault Rifle: 5
10MM SMG: 5
10MM Pistol: 3
Sledgehammer: 6
Spear: 4
Minigun: 7
Flamer: 6
Sniper Rifle: 5
Turbo Plasma Rifle: 6
Crowbar: 5
223 pistol: 5

New Min Str Values (Two-handed, One-handed):

Laser Rifle: 5, 17
Shotgun: 2, 8
H&K G11: 4, 10
Assault Rifle: 4, 13
10MM SMG: 2, 6
10MM Pistol: 1, 3
Sledgehammer: 5, 16
Spear: 3, 6
Minigun: 10, 34
Flamer: 7, 25
Sniper Rifle: 4, 13
Turbo Plasma Rifle: 6, 19
Crowbar: 2, 6
223 Pistol: 3, 7

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Ah, I finally have an idea to implement (part of) DraQ's modular armor idea. Every set of armor has the option of either keeping its helmet (or hood) on or taking it off. If it's on, you get full protection of the head, and partial protection of the eyes, but you also get a penalty to your perception (a full point might be too harsh; maybe just a penalty to your defensive perception).

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Ooh, finally thought of a use for outdoorsman outside of travelling speed: healing powder, which was already a bit of an oddity in the new health system, will be replaced with something like "improvised healing materials" (herbal medicine, improvised splints and slings for bone fractures, stuff like that). You can choose to actively search for these materials at the cost of travelling speed (so you probably shouldn't do this when going through a radioactive zone), at which point they steadily accumulate in your inventory. Both the frequency at which you acquire them and their effectivity is determined by your outdoorsman skill. By effectivity I don't mean the amount you heal per material (like with first aid kits, this is determined by the first aid skill), but to what degree you can heal yourself and your party members: at a skill of 0 you can heal up to 0% of your max health, and at a skill of 200 you can heal up to 100% of your max health (I'm thinking of capping all the skills at 200 because it's just a lot easier to balance them that way; I'm pretty sure the highest skill req is at 121 (science for skynet) anyway).

I'm also thinking of moving back the progressive skill cost 1 grade (so 75-100=2 cost, 100-125 3 cost, etc.) and increasing the amount of skill points alloted (instead of 5 + 2*INT, I'd do 7 + 3*INT) so you're incentivized to create more varied builds.

Also, I think I've finally come up with a version of the kamikaze trait that should cause you to play the way you "should": move cost is decreased by half, but you're a lot easier to hit. Would this work you think, The Brazilian Slaughter (also the previous change, which seems kind of risky)?

Edit: lowering the cap and the skill cost increments would also help me balance combat better: the AI has combat skills in the 75-150 range (in vanilla it's even 55-150), so if you can breeze on to 100 from the start, that's hard as hell to balance; 75 just makes more sense as the lowest benchmark.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Ok, it could be that I'm just playing too much of that AoD beta/demo/whatever it is, but I've tried implementing hth counter attacks, and they work pretty damn good. Animations, damage, everything. So here's what I was thinking: you get the option whether to block (raising DT against hth attacks) or dodge (raising dodge, herp) and you get the additional choice whether to attempt a counter attack or not. If you choose to try that, the effectiveness of your block or dodge gets cut in half, but if your dodge or block succeeds (i.e. the opponent misses or hits you for 0 damage), then you get to make a counter attack, which has the same to hit chance and damage formula a regular attack would have (if you have a gun in your hand you just punch).

Does this sound good or am I going into wacky country here? I need level headed comments from, let's say, Clockwork Knight.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

That...sounds pretty cool, actually. I'm not sure if it'll see much use (I imagine you'll want to be dodging most of the time, one extra hit won't be worth halving your defense unless the opponent is almost dead, and even then you probably don't want to give him a last hit before dying a là Wasteland), but it's a great way to make melee more interesting, intuitive as well.

...I just thought of something. A melee character that specializes in clawing out his enemies' eyes so they have a reduced chance to hit him, so he'll get free counters

The Outdoorsman-based healing is also cool but alongside rest-healing it might make injuries even less of an issue than they currently are. Then again, resting isn't an interesting mechanic anyway, at least actively searching for supplies sounds more interesting.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

That...sounds pretty cool, actually. I'm not sure if it'll see much use (I imagine you'll want to be dodging most of the time, one extra hit won't be worth halving your defense unless the opponent is almost dead, and even then you probably don't want to give him a last hit before dying a là Wasteland), but it's a great way to make melee more interesting, intuitive as well.

It's not just one extra hit (potentially) though: it's the same as in AoD, so potentially you have as many counter attacks as the enemy has attacks.

...I just thought of something. A melee character that specializes in clawing out his enemies' eyes so they have a reduced chance to hit him, so he'll get free counters

Heh, yeah. I still have think of something that'll take different AP costs into account. Maybe countering with sledges has a lower THC or something than with a knife, not sure yet.

The Outdoorsman-based healing is also cool but alongside rest-healing it might make injuries even less of an issue than they currently are.

Rest healing's out: you need first aid kits (there'll be more of them available of course) as resource to heal during resting (look a couple of posts back), or one of those improvised medicines (except like I said unlike the kits they only heal up to a certain percentage unless you have maxed out outdoorsman).

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I was making some changes to the economic zones I was talking about, and I thought of a potentially cool mechanic for having zones change (they already do this in the case of inflation, but things like product demand and gear randomization associated with it is still pretty rigid). The same way that I register all the cash on a map for the inflation thing, I could check the sum total of all item values + money on a map, and if it crosses a certain benchmark, the zone either goes up or down a level: the weapon randomization script then gets called again and all the critters get their new gear.

Only problem would be models: the game has these pretty much hardwired, though I could maybe get around that by changing the animation and armor values on every map entry; will try that tomorrow, but could have really weird effects. Other than that just changing armor values without models alongside them would also be an option.

You could also finally do something interesting with the barter skill this way I guess; maybe two Invester/Slash and Burn capitalist perks that gives you more of an influence on zones either rising or falling.... anyway, still thinking this through.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Hmm scratch that, I tried some stuff and I don't think I can change models on the fly, which'd make upgrading critters a hassle (a guy in power armor looking like someone in leather armor only works with party members). I'll just ignore that idea for the moment.

In other news, a problem I've been having is that I don't have a way to make flares work in my new to hit formula, so I need to find some alternative. I think I'm going with a flashlight: spend 2/3 AP (and one small energy cell?) to create a wonderful cone of light: anyone in it gets treated as if in daylight. The moment your turn ends/you switch target/you move the cone dissappears. Another thing I'm considering is some kind of temporary blinding effect: a chance of lowering the perception of the first one encountered by the beam of light standing towards you for the next turn. Not sure what this chance should be based on tho... maybe target endurance?

In general, I think each hit bodypart should ideally have a good chance of a temporary penalty attached like in AoD, so that aiming for a bodypart has more of a tactical element to it:

torso: nothing?
arms: drop weapon
legs: knockdown
head: knockout
eyes: blinding (-2 PE for one turn? seems weak, but should probably occur every eye hit that isn't permanently blinding)
groin: keeling over, or something (+2 AP for attacking next turn)

Finally, here's the flashlight in action:

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Not sure what this chance should be based on tho... maybe target endurance?

Agility, maybe. No amount of endurance will help your eyes, but a fast enough character could manage to cover his face or something.

A simple Armor class check is another option. The character shields himself by any available means.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Not sure what this chance should be based on tho... maybe target endurance?

Agility, maybe. No amount of endurance will help your eyes, but a fast enough character could manage to cover his face or something.

You're probably right, though if I went this route I'd also throw PE and distance in the mix; can't block what you can't see.

Also, I thickened out the beam a bit, removed the light source surrounding the player (always hated that one), and made the light intensity of the beam decrease from 100% right in front, to 0% at max range. The engine doesn't handle different lighting intensities very subtly (wonder if the hi-res patch fixes that...), but it looks ok:

 

[Sevenfm]

Jim, you are really Tyrannosaur of Fallout modding!
Flashlight looks amazing, and what you are doing for improving combat system is great!

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Thanks brah

I got video capture stuff working finally, so made some vidz (including one of trap setting, The Brazilian Slaughter)

 

[Kaucukovnik]

Beware of linking every stat to every possibly relevant calculation. You are risking an "uncanny valley" of rulesets - too complex rules to memorize and keep in mind comfortably, but too simplistic to mimick reality enough so that the player can grasp the rules intuitively.

Other than than, incredible work! Keep the geiger in, it's awesome. Even if the radiation is just random, with no connection to anything else. It just belongs there. I can imagine missing it after a playthrough with your mod.

 

[Sevenfm]

Radiation is cool! Though this geiger counter sound may become annoying after some time.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Beware of linking every stat to every possibly relevant calculation. You are risking an "uncanny valley" of rulesets - too complex rules to memorize and keep in mind comfortably, but too simplistic to mimick reality enough so that the player can grasp the rules intuitively.

Really good point. I have the problem that my simulationist side and my balance-obsessed side are constantly feeding into each other by combining more and more stats until it's an undifferentiated overcomplicated mess in the end; I'm trying more and more to go back to things after I've made them and simplify them, but I should really do that from the get-go.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I don't think Timeslip's gonna help me out with replacing all the bursts with my own burst cone any time soon, so I'm just going to start with the damage calculation as it is. Maybe in a later version I'll end up implementing some ideas I had for different burst types (attempted straight line versus broad spray, stuff like that). Here's what I think I'm going to do:

HTH weapon types:

melee damage=ST/2 (this simply gets added to the weapon's damage, not just the upper range like in the original game)

sledges/clubs: 2*melee damage (+1 AP cost)
unarmed: 1.5*melee damage
spears: 1*melee damage
knife: 0.5*melee damage (chance of armor bypassing increases based on THC)

Couple of exceptions to this scheme: the Ripper always pierces a percentage of armor, Power Fists cost +1 AP, and the cattle prods don't take any melee damage into account.

Damage types:

electricity: increased knockout chance
pulse: increased knockdown chance
laser: can pass through opponents (e.g. if you hit someone with 20 laser damage, and they have 4 DT and 25% DR against laser, then 12 damage hits him and also passes through him and has a chance (for convenience it's the same chance as before, except with changed distance modifiers) of hitting the target behind him for that amount, and so on).
plasma: does splash damage to those standing right next to the target.

Attack types:

knives/spears: swing gives higher base damage and THC, thrust adds armor piercing based on strength and raises crit chance.
sledges/clubs: swing produces knockback, thrust doesn't.
unarmed: like said before, the special unarmed attacks are now "flurries" for punches and roundhouses for kicks; which you can do with all unarmed weapons as well. These attacks are performed at a penalty to melee damage.

Changing "handedness":

The stuff I said earlier (two handed melee increases damage, ranged THC, etc.) still applies, but a couple of things are added:

knives: can't wield them with two hands of course, so changing the handedness simply replaces the thrust attack with a throw attack, so that you can throw all knives (throwing knives do get a THC bonus when thrown).
spears: same as with knives going to two handed replaces throwing with a swing, except that all the other bonuses/penalties for handedness do apply.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Next in the line of ideas shamelessly lifted off AoD is using poison on bladed weapons to give them a limited amount of poisoned hits. I ended up with a bit of a weird system because I can't force switches between weapons without the game going all buggy: all bladed weapons get "ammo" which automatically replenishes each strike. But if you press a certain key with a bladed weapon in your active hand and poison in your inven, then the ammo becomes limited (but only substracts on a hit) until it reaches zero, which turns the unlimited, non-poisonous ammo back on.

I'm also thinking about adding an electro gun with FOT's spasm gun artwork, because I think electricity is a bit of sad damage type at the moment. Just to make it a bit different, I want to make it have an area effect if the target is standing on a metal tile.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Damn bro, so mauch stuff and I can't even comment it all.

Anyway, I think you really should watch out for the feature creep, man. Lotsa good features, but you gotta stop and put a line in your work, so you can say "ok, I'm done, let's see what people think" so people can play and get animated about your mod again.

For example, I'm thinking of starting my previous game from zero just so I can use some of your new mechanics, perhaps make a musclebound jerkoff that demolishes people with his big hammer. I like how EN and ST are useful now.

You're right; I've said it before, but this time I mean it: no more new features; gonna finish it and release it .

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Write here a list of features on the new version so we can stop you if necessary.

Nah, that's already way too much info for anyone to keep me on; I'll just stop discussing things unless people bring it up (if I can't spam things I don't make things).

Damn, wish they would manage to translate Fallout 1.5 Ressurection and Fallout of Nevada so I could play completely new Fallout worlds using your mod.

You made me look up Fallout of Nevada, and holy fuck these guys made a whole interface expansion; have to find out how they did that. No more retarded alt + key shortcuts! (well aware that this again counts as a new feature, but fuck it!)

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Just to keep the fans The Brazilian Slaughter updated, I've decided to cut out a lot of the fluff (flashlight, etc.) and also a lot of the perk changes for the next update and just focus on what I still have to do with the core formulas and the updated randomization script (which is almost done, npc's now get cash to buy ammo with, it's pretty intense yo).

Because I have to do something with the generic bursts now that I probably won't be able to use my own cone in most cases, I have been working on a couple of changes. This is how bursts work in the game:

There's actually two different burst mechanics at work at the same time, one sends three streams of bullets (1/3rd of all bullets left, 1/6th center, 1/3rd right), for which each bullet performs a to hit calculation, and if it fails, the stream moves on (so, if you have a massive stream of 40 bullets at 95% to hit, if the first one flukes and misses, all of them miss), the remaining 1/6th heads for the target, and for this one each bullet is calculated, regardless whether the previous one missed.

The problem with this system is that where the second mechanic works regularly from a THC standpoint, the first, because it has the whole stream skip targets at a whim, produces some really annoying effects (e.g. going all the way from 0% to 50% THC gives you just one extra hit on average, but just going from 90% to 95% THC produces a huge extra 7 hits on average). To try and rectify this, I'll use an extreme version of the progressive nerfing system in my THC formula, which causes higher THC values to "cost" more than lower ones; this will mean that increasing your THC from 80% to 90% will be 9 times as hard as progressing from 0% to 10%. To compensate, bursts will get a large base bonus, so that you'll be bursting at 40% while you're single shotting at 10%, and bursting at 70% while you're single shotting at 90%.

Of course, this risks totally upsetting the other burst mechanic: suddenly even a bad shot'd be getting a couple of hits on a target with the extra 1/6th stream. To address this, I'll have the THC of this stream drop off progressively after each bullet in the way you'd expect a spraying shooter would; you can mitigate this effect with high strength.

Something I've already implemented is that you can now adjust the number of burst rounds you fire up to 50% over and down to 50% under the default amount (so a 10mm SMG has a burst amount range of 5-15); characters who are strong enough to keep long bursts on target can go all the way up.

edit: that produces a nice bonus for the gatling laser actually: it barely (doesn't?) has recoil, so it doesn't drop off.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I still don't like the way I've handled min ST requirements for guns. DraQ was right a couple of pages ago that incorporating recoil, and not just size, shape and weight, was a must. So I went and did the recoil calculations for the calibers in the game (involves muzzle velocity, powder weight, bullet weight and firearm weight).

In doing so I noticed that there's a probably a duplicate caliber (5mm and .223), so I've merged these as 5.56mm in the same way FOT did. Of course both of these work very different in FO, with .223 being powerful as fuck and 5mm incredibly weak for some reason; this wasn't much of a problem in FO1 where most of the weapons and ammo were fictive anyway, but with FO2's questionable decision to add a lot of real life weapons in the mix, that won't fly. Especially given that as The Brazilian Slaughter pointed out, this resulted in weird shit like the more powerful caliber 7.62 becoming much weaker and FNFALs becoming pea shooters in the process. Incidentally, this also means that the .223 pistol becomes the 7.62 pistol (there's just no way something firing 5.56 rounds would pack more of a punch than a 14mm pistol). I think I'll replace the duplicate caliber with the .50 cal from FOT, simply because that should be the round for the Bozar when it becomes a sniper rifle like it's supposed to be (think it was supposed to represent the Barrett).

Another problem I ran into was the 10mm, which I'm pretty sure based on the description is supposed to represent the .40 S&W. The problem is that FO2 also added the .45 Cal, which is really similar to the .40 in the metrics used so far (recoil and power, though the .40 is a bit more powerful); where there is a difference is in that the .45 is slower and heavier, which translates in better stopping power. So what I want to do is incorporate stopping power in some way: high stopping power translates in a higher knockdown/knockout chance. Light and fast rounds (5.56, the caseless rounds, 2mm EC) have almost no stopping power, while shotguns, magnums and 14mm rounds knock you over more often (think JHP will also produce a bigger chance). Feature creep ahoy!

Anyway, back to recoil. The problem with incorporating this in Min ST, is that it requires two different mechanics. After all, if you're physically capable of properly stabilizing a firearm, you can fire off an accurate round regardless of the subsequent recoil (as far as I can tell the only effect recoil has on single shot accuracy is psychological: you anticipate the recoil and jerk the trigger, which shouldn't be a part of the game mechanics); also, weight has opposite effects: heavier guns reduce recoil, while they're harder to keep stable. So there's two types of min ST now: a min ST for stabilizing, which affects THC, and a min ST for recoil, which causes an extra AP for shooting (to stabilize after the recoil) if exceeded. Recoil also affects the progressive drop off in burst accuracy I mentioned previously. So the result will be that the FNFAL becomes significantly more powerful than the Assault Rifle, but that it will be hard to keep on target in full auto (the exact reason why the US military went from 7.62 to 5.56 in the first place); similarly, the M60 will be more powerful than the Minigun, but the minigun will be able to keep more rounds on target (in fact, because it's so heavy and its rounds are so light, the Minigun has the lowest recoil in the game).

Let me know if you think I made a mistake somewhere. Don't really know anything about firearms; just spent a couple of days trying to get to understand very basic ballistics.