Fallout Fallout: New Vegas 10 Year Anniversary

[Butter]

Anyone wanting more fleshed out Legion is delusional. Sawyer intention always was to portray Legion as a brutal, unforgiving, totalitarian regime with Caesar as a ruthless tyrant. Legion is ultimately an "evil" side, with Caesar goals mirroring those of Master from Fallout 1. NCR, on the other hand, are intended "good" poster boys and thinly veiled allegory at XX-th century Kwanza.

I don't remember the source, but I recall reading that they originally intended to include a settlement on the east side of the river, "controlled" by the Legion but essentially a civilian town, and it would've been an opportunity to provide alternative perspectives on the Legion. Additionally it would've provided more content for a Legion playthrough, something sorely needed.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I don't remember the source, but I recall reading that they originally intended to include a settlement on the east side of the river, "controlled" by the Legion but essentially a civilian town, and it would've been an opportunity to provide alternative perspectives on the Legion. Additionally it would've provided more content for a Legion playthrough, something sorely needed.

On a related note, a lot of folks have asked me about the Legion in Fallout: New Vegas and why they aren't more fully fleshed out. The real answer is "time", and I would have liked to have more locations, characters, and quests for the Legion. Even so, the Legion was always intended to be a faction that was initially presented as terrible, much like the NCR is initially presented as heroic, with revelations over the course of the story causing you to question that initial impression in a larger context. Caesar shows a very warped plan for how the Legion can bring order to the Mojave, and there are suggestions that regions under Legion control do enjoy a sort of "Pax Romana", but there isn't enough concrete evidence for the player to directly witness to really sell it. Even so, under the most ideal of portrayals, it was never my intention for the Legion to become a heroic faction. Their methods and approach would have always been unflinchingly brutal, with proven results and a clear plan to reproduce that success being the only potentially redeeming qualities of the group.

http://twofoldsilence.diogenes-lamp.info/2011/02/roman-legion-fact-fiction-post.html

The role of women in Rome and Legion - different
The outlook on slavery in Rome and Legion - different
Ludditism - never was seen in Rome
Societal and political system in Rome and Legion - different

You can rename Caesar into any historical tyrant, replace Roman paraphernalia with the according one, and nothing essential will be changed

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The reason it was never fleshed out was because they realized that there was no way they could portray them without the player being at least partially sympathetic to their actions due to the circumstances.
Anything else is an excuse.

 

[Infinitron]

Day Two:

 

[Heroic Liberator]

The reason it was never fleshed out was because they realized that there was no way they could portray them without the player being at least partially sympathetic to their actions due to the circumstances.
Anything else is an excuse.

Fake news. They had to cut plenty of content due to time restraints. Same as removing, quite early in development, post-ending content (which was a good call in my view).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The reason it was never fleshed out was because they realized that there was no way they could portray them without the player being at least partially sympathetic to their actions due to the circumstances.
Anything else is an excuse.

Fake news. They had to cut plenty of content due to time restraints. Same as removing, quite early in development, post-ending content (which was a good call in my view).

Imagine thinking they'd prioritize Yes Man content over Caesar content.
They just didn't know how to present Caesar's legion as something people would universally hate if you actually interacted with their citizens rather than military.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Day.....Two?

 

[Nano]

Imagine thinking they'd prioritize Yes Man content over Caesar content.

IIRC, didn't Obsidian assume during development that Yes Man would be the most popular route? If they did they were proven right.

 

[Infinitron]

Intuitively, Caesar's Legion content was always going to be the obvious thing to cut because it required expanding the game's world map further east across the Colorado River.

 

[The Jester]

There is a mod being made that expands the legion's map beyond the fort and legate's camp, it's still in alpha but worth checking out :
Arizona- A Legion Expansion ALPHA

 

[Kazuki]

Makes me wish The Legion is explored in future sequel, maybe this time it set on Arizona. It will deal the aftermath of Caesar's Legion defeat, the legion will be divided between various faction.

Each will be aiming to unite Legion again, your protagonist will decide which faction leader should be given to be a new Caesar. You can also make yourself to be Caesar if you want to. It will be a dream fallout game for me.

Sadly none of current dev of Obsidian will accomplish this anymore.

 

[The Jester]

It will deal the aftermath of Caesar's Legion defeat,.

 

[Kazuki]

Hey, both scenario of Caesars Legion fate can be an interesting setting for future Fallout. But i prefer Legion defeat more.

 

[None]

It will deal the aftermath of Caesar's Legion defeat,.

IIRC thats actually how Black Isle had Fallout 4 plotted out. Prior to Van Buren the Legion would have made a failed assault on Hoover Dam and retreated back east. We were supposed to just see some glimpses of them, with Fallout 4 revolving heavily around the Legion/their return.

 

[The Jester]

It will deal the aftermath of Caesar's Legion defeat,.

IIRC thats actually how Black Isle had Fallout 4 plotted out. Prior to Van Buren the Legion would have made a failed assault on Hoover Dam and retreated back east. We were supposed to just see some glimpses of them, with Fallout 4 revolving heavily around the Legion/their return.

But the legion already HAVE a failed assault on Hoover Dam, remember? it's called the first battle of Hoover Dam.

 

[None]

Of course I remember. The only difference is that the Legion decided to pack things up and head back East in the Black Isle version of things.

 

[Ol' Willy]

They had to cut plenty of content due to time restraints. Same as removing, quite early in development, post-ending content (which was a good call in my view).

Any ideas, what kind of content was planned for Legion? My assumptions are based on Soyer's words, now the mythical cut-content nature is pure guesswork.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Obviously, the Legion was going to be "evil", but even if we follow that assumption, there's a big difference in how evil portrays itself. Caesar was ruthless and anti-democratic, but even within the broader liberal paradigm of the fictional world's setting, which is is set in the ruins of the American empire, as well as of the game's creators---and I'm thinking of Sawyer in particular, going by his public pronouncements on political issues-- there was a care to portray him in such as a way that a case could be made for his vision of the future. This is quite commendable considering its source, and is something you'd never see coming out of Hollywood, for example. +1 for RPGs.

As posted above, Sawyer is on record lamenting how poorly the Legion was portrayed, and the obvious difference between that expression and Caesar's articulation of vision, so we have to assume that much more could be done.

The question of whether the Legion was authentically Roman is secondary, as Caesar himself explained that he used Rome as a symbol. He wasn't the only one and historical examples abound, although I guess fascism was the main inspiration. Being a post-apocalyptic world, historical analogies can serve only as guidelines. Caesar was also a primeval tyrant, the brutal conqueror from the savage lands, and a former missionary educated by Followers. A very layered character.

 

[purupuru]

Imagine thinking they'd prioritize Yes Man content over Caesar content.

That's hardly a fair comparison, Yes Man is like the safety option so that you can finish the game even if you piss off all the factions. And it's really not a lot of effort, the faction quests are already there, you just do them (or not) and report to Yes Man.

 

[AW8]

Over the years, Sawyer has stated multiple times that he wished the Legion had more content, and repeated it on the stream yesterday when asked what single thing he would've changed (although he pointed out that the Legion locations never left the pre-prod phase).

Any ideas, what kind of content was planned for Legion?

There would have been at least one settlement on the eastern side of the Colorado, showing how the Legion ran things. They never got around to doing the design docs for the Legion areas, so it's just guesswork to figure out what these areas would have been like. But one can assume they would have been like Sawyer describes Legion areas: Extremely safe, rather prosperous, but ultimately controlled by this fanatical military force that'll put you on a cross if you er, cross them.

And of course, Ulysses would have been the Legion companion. From the way the other companions complain about their factions, but are ultimately loyal to them, Ulysses would have probably been a Legion agent who wants the Legion to change, but is loyal to Caesar in the end.

Intuitively, Caesar's Legion content was always going to be the obvious thing to cut because it required expanding the game's world map further east across the Colorado River.

They're also the "evil" faction and I'm certain more players would rather oppose than join them, adding another why reason they weren't prioritized.

 

[RoBoBOBR]

He elaborated later, claiming that apart from glasses and "latin stuff" they got nothing in common.

 

[Owl]

Day Two:

Sawyer almost died while hiking - story starts here

 

[Heroic Liberator]

almost

Balanced as always.

 

[Quillon]

Sawyer almost died while hiking - story starts here

no, Sawyer almost turned into a ghoul while hiking lmao

 

[Infinitron]

Josh played a bit more overnight: