Fallout

[Awor Szurkrarz]

None of these traps completely block locations and aren't deadly enough to make picking the Traps skill worthwhile.

Then I guess Combat skills are useless too, since it's possible to finish game without killing anyone.

The traps are nowhere near combat when it comes to deadliness. They simply exist to do some minor damage. Also, there are tons of combat in game and combat skills are very helpful when accessing some locations. Simply, you don't need traps skills to do anything useful.
If there were places where there are traps that can instant-kill you or destroy valuable equipment and some separate trapped routes, then traps skill would be useful.
Right now there's only one place where it proves useful - Dr. Morbid's basement with its booby trapped locker.
This skill is simply under-used.

 

[Mastermind]

You're right. It's not like intelligence affects your magicka supply or anything, it's just there for show.

Newfags cannot into RPGs, either.

If RPG = interactive soap opera for conversationfags, then no, I can't.

 

[Lyric Suite]

And as for the choices&consequences, if we consider the ending slides to be just fluff, was there much more to it? I don't remember the world being particularly reactive.

You don't remember how you had to be careful with everything you said for fear of fucking up a conversation, to the point you had to save before talking to anyone that looked even remotely important?

 

[Lyric Suite]

If RPG = interactive soap opera for conversationfags, then no, I can't.

When people talk about choice and consequences, they are surely not talking about the fact that lowering your agility will reduce the number of action points available to you as well. Derp much?

 

[Lyric Suite]

Have to say, the opening is pretty fucking boring. No points for that.

Are you talking about the cinematic intro? I thought it was great.

 

[Mastermind]

When people talk about choice and consequences, they are surely not talking about the fact that lowering your agility will reduce the number of action points available to you as well.

There is no relevant difference between your attribute choices affecting combat mechanics and your attribute choices affecting conversation mechanics, nor is a game required to have both to be an RPG. Both are "choices and consequences" that are applied to different aspects of a game. You are correct that convofags consider the latter mandantory, but your demands and reality are not necessarily the same thing. Nevermind that being a convofag makes you a subhuman ape whose opinion is worth less than Hitler's.

 

[Gnidrologist]

You're right. It's not like intelligence affects your magicka supply or anything, it's just there for show.

In other words, with Oblivion all skills are combat skills and only meaningful interaction with game world is killing it's inhabitants either using swords or fireballs, which was Suite's point to start with.

 

[Lyric Suite]

There is no relevant difference between your attribute choices affecting combat mechanics and your attribute choices affecting conversation mechanics

Yeah, one affects how your character reacts to simple combat variables, the other affects how the entire world of the game reacts to your choice. Naaa, no relevant difference there at all.

nor is a game required to have both to be an RPG.

To be frank, i don't give a fuck about defining what is required of a game to be an RPG. I don't play games because they are RPGs. I regret even bringing this point into the argument. My mistake.

Both are "choices and consequences" that are applied to different aspects of a game. You are correct that convofags consider the latter mandantory, but your demands and reality are not necessarily the same thing

The reality being of course is that we'd all rather play Torment rather then World of Warcraft, or, worse yet, Oblivion.

Convofaggotry has been the way of the future since Fallout. Deal with it.

 

[Mastermind]

Yeah, in Oblivion all skills are combat skills

Speechcraft, barter and security are combat skills.
Nevermind that many of the other skills have plenty of non-combat applications.

and only meaningful interaction with game world is killing it's inhabitants either using swords or fireballs.

All but one of the thieves guild quests can be completed without killing anyone (in fact, you are expected not to in most cases). Even the fighters guild has a couple of quests that can be completed peacefully. The speech system isn't very well developed but it's an outright lie to say there is no meaningful interaction when you can use it to complete some quests without violence. The game is no doubt focused on adventuring, and combat is a huge part of it, but it's far from the only part.

 

[Mastermind]

Yeah, one affects how your character reacts to simple combat variables, the other affects how the entire world of the game reacts to your choice. Naaa, no relevant difference there at all.

Non-hostile NPCs = "entire world". Gotcha.

Speech affects your interaction with non-hostile entities. Combat affects your interaction with hostile entities. Pretty solid parity between them. And as a matter of fact you can always choose to use your combat skills on entities that don't want to automatically fight you. Good luck using speech on entities that do want to fight you. Although, Oblivion does allow you to use speech on entities that attack you in that you can surrender and if they like you enough (their disposition can be raised with speech) they'll let you. I don't recall having that option in Fallout.

The reality being of course is that we'd all rather play Torment rather then World of Warcraft, or, worse yet, Oblivion.

we=a small minority of codextards. Oblivion and WOW have a much bigger following (though their following's average IQ is more or less the same as the codex's). Both sides are retarded, but only one side is composed of bitter losers nobody caters to anymore.

Convofaggotry has been the way of the future since Fallout. Deal with it.

Here is your future

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Both sides are retarded, but only one side is composed of bitter losers nobody caters to anymore.

If the other side is a caterer's heaven of obese mongoloïds with no sense of taste, the "bitter loser" doesn't seem like a bad side to be on.

 

[Mastermind]

Both sides are retarded, but only one side is composed of bitter losers nobody caters to anymore.

If the other side is a caterer's heaven of obese mongoloïds with no sense of taste, the "bitter loser" doesn't seem like a bad side to be on.

"taste" is completely subjective, so while you may think you have better taste than the overwhelming majority, it comes off as more than a little retarded to a neutral observer.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Non-hostile NPCs = "entire world". Gotcha.

Yes, actually. This is what the world in a game is made out of. Non-hostile NPCs. Opponents are not part of the world, they are part of the combat system. NPCs cease to be part of the world the moment engagements begin. I mean duh, WTF.

Speech affects your interaction with non-hostile entities. Combat affects your interaction with hostile entities. Pretty solid parity between them.

Interaction with non-hostile entities is worlds apart from interaction with hostile entities. You are just making a relativistic fallacy.

And as a matter of fact you can always choose to use your combat skills on entities that don't want to automatically fight you. Good luck using speech on entities that do want to fight you. Although, Oblivion does allow you to use speech on entities that attack you in that you can surrender and if they like you enough (their disposition can be raised with speech) they'll let you. I don't recall having that option in Fallout.

The fact Oblvion has a one size fit all built in solution to get off combat situations (while Fallout does not), does not mean that the game still isn't a complete failure in terms of non-combat interaction. It is in fact indicative of something that makes Bethesda games so insufferably odious. The fact that their games strive to be story fag modern RPGs in every sense of the word, but upon even the slightest scrutiny one realizes that its all smoke and mirrors. Pretty much like the fake dialog choices found in Bioware games, except in the case of Bethesda its even worse because their implementations are often much more poorly thought out and amateurish in comparison. Yet, because their games appear to have all those great mechanics which are the mark of a great RPG, less discerning players who have no conception of quality design and proper implementation are easily conned into believing those games are true masterpieces. The people of Bethesda are posers, wannabes, talentless hacks with no real skill or creative ability. Their success is based entirely on their ability to scam the ignorant and the gullible.

Whatever faults a game like Fallout may have, it was an honest effort. That's the crucial difference.

 

[Lyric Suite]

"taste" is completely subjective

This is the key to understand newfags.

 

[Volrath]

Why are you arguing with one of Drog's many alts?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Both sides are retarded, but only one side is composed of bitter losers nobody caters to anymore.

If the other side is a caterer's heaven of obese mongoloïds with no sense of taste, the "bitter loser" doesn't seem like a bad side to be on.

"taste" is completely subjective, so while you may think you have better taste than the overwhelming majority, it comes off as more than a little retarded to a neutral observer.

Keep on delivering the enlightenment, bro. You're doing God's work.







Also, LOL at majority = taste.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

"taste" is completely subjective, so while you may think you have better taste than the overwhelming majority, it comes off as more than a little retarded to a neutral observer.

And you are one. Talk about retarded self delusions. You can also cut the "may", I'm a grown-up man, I assume my stances. Finally, by "no sense of taste" I didn't mean "bad taste" but "no taste", or taste-blind, as in "would eat anything", "would fuck anyone" or "would play any game".

 

[Mastermind]

Yes, actually. This is what the world in a game is made out of. Non-hostile NPCs. Opponents are not part of the world, they are part of the combat system. NPCs cease to be part of the world the moment engagements begin. I mean duh, WTF.

Interaction with non-hostile entities is worlds apart from interaction with hostile entities. You are just making a relativistic fallacy.

In its specifics, yes. But otherwise, no.

The fact Oblvion has a one size fit all built in solution to get off combat situations (while Fallout does not),

Yes, one size fit all (off the top of my head, don't feel like googling every quest):

Surrender
talk
calm
invisibility
paralysis
give items/money needed to avoid dungeon crawling.

Maybe you should stick to criticizing games you've actually played. It's true that the opportunity to avoid combat doesn't come up all that often when compared to fallout, but when it does the skill system is varied enough that you can go about it a number of ways.

does not mean that the game still isn't a complete failure in terms of non-combat interaction.

The stealth system is fantastic. The only non-combat interaction that needs work is conversations. But conversations are not all there is to non-combat interaction.

It is in fact indicative of something that makes Bethesda games so insufferably odious. The fact that their games strive to be story fag modern RPGs in every sense of the word, but upon even the slightest scrutiny one realizes that its all smoke and mirrors. Pretty much like the fake dialog choices found in Bioware games, except in the case of Bethesda its even worse because their implementations are often much more poorly thought out and amateurish in comparison. Yet, because their games appear to have all those great mechanics which are the mark of a great RPG, less discerning players who have no conception of quality design and proper implementation are easily conned into believing those games are true masterpieces. The people of Bethesda are posers, wannabes, talentless hacks with no real skill or creative ability. Their success is based entirely on their ability to scam the ignorant and the gullible.

You are confusing convofag with storyfag. Oblivion and the TES series in general have a fantastic layered story on a massive and well built lore base. Most of it is best gathered through books rather than conversations. As a matter of fact Morrowind's non-conversation conversations worked much better than the shitty Fallout style newfag conversation system introduced in Oblivion. I guess reading all that text is too much for both newfags and falloutards to handle.

 

[Mastermind]

Also, LOL at majority = taste.

Because that's what I said. Nice one skyway.

 

[Mastermind]

And you are one.

I am. I don't seem like one because I'm trolling the fucking codex. Why would I expand any serious effort mocking hardcore mass effect fans or the like here? There aren't any.

Finally, by "no sense of taste" I didn't mean "bad taste" but "no taste", or taste-blind, as in "would eat anything", "would fuck anyone" or "would play any game".

Which is why they're all rushing to play Arcanum and Fallout 1.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Which is why they're all rushing to play Arcanum and Fallout 1.

They would have, had they been of age when these game came out and PC and consoles as widespread as now.

 

[Mastermind]

They would have, had they been of age when these game came out and PC and consoles as widespread as now.

They wouldn't have. Neither was particularly popular relative to other games of their time. Why would that change?

 

[DraQ]

If this guy was Master's mind, I can sort of understand how he didn't think this sterility thing all the way through.

 

[Mastermind]

If this guy was Master's mind, I can sort of understand how he didn't think this sterility thing all the way through.

And I can sort of understand how a genius like the Master can be so stupid: his designers are retarded. But at least they made an honest effort.

Trolling aside, the first line from your sig is in NV in a modified form. Cass says something along the lines of "be very very quiet, we're hunting retards" when you go into sneak mode.

 

[Gnidrologist]

"taste" is completely subjective

Yes. And your's shit.