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Fanstratics: A HoMM 3 Spiritual Successor

Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Messages
698
A spiritual successor to HOMM4 with art design on par with HOMM3 and some polish would be a better move. 4 improves on 3 in almost every way but is fuck ugly, has a dogshit AI, and lacks a random map generator.
You're a bad person with a wrong and bad opinion and I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
So HoMM has to miss out on a basic feature because then its other design failures would become even more problematic? Sounds about right.
:smug:
Basic feature from what? I actually legit don't remember if Homm3 had fog of war.
 

Blake00

Learned
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Oct 1, 2020
Messages
268
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Australia
Thus, making an actual spiritual successor to it (think homm5 with decent art style and production values) obviously makes sense, and a lot of it.

HoMM5's vanilla release was a bit rough and upset some people (I still remember groaning over the closed mouths in talking cutscenes) but in the end it was a pretty darn good game after all the addons and patches. It obviously ticked the HoMM3 clone box to keep most of the diehards happy, but it also didn't completely ignore HoMM4 as they took it's Caravans feature and a 'bit' of the Heroes more involved in battles feature too. Then they still made their own changes ie the switch to 3D and the multiple choice alternative upgrades to all creatures in the game (it's still the only HoMM game to offer that one). Really the only changes they made that I didn't like were the porno bikini dark elves and some of the other units looking too Warcrafty (I hated the football quarterback Arch Devil). But overall it was a pretty good start for Ubisoft.. however.. yeah.. then the Ubi suits thought "well since this has gone so well and our big budget game has made lots of money, why don't we see if we can bully a small studio into making the same quality game for less money in less time so we can make a bigger profit" leading to the steaming piles of unfinished sh*t that were HoMM 6 & 7. I still remember when heaps of us protested the cheap ass painting looking castle screens in HoMM6 & 7 and the devs actually admitted publicly that the big dramatic 3D HoMM5 town screens cost Nival around million bucks each to make (which doesn't sound right but oh well) and that they couldn't do the same because Ubisoft hadn't given them the budget for that in the sequels.

All this makes me think of another question to ask Greg. Will Fanstratics have Caravans as they saved huge amounts of 'collector hero' micromanagement. HoMM5 took it further by making the Caravans visible on the map and attackable leading to fun raiding missions too.

.
 

hello friend

Arcane
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I'm on an actual spaceship. No joke.
A spiritual successor to HOMM4 with art design on par with HOMM3 and some polish would be a better move. 4 improves on 3 in almost every way but is fuck ugly, has a dogshit AI, and lacks a random map generator.
You're a bad person with a wrong and bad opinion and I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
So HoMM has to miss out on a basic feature because then its other design failures would become even more problematic? Sounds about right.
:smug:
Basic feature from what? I actually legit don't remember if Homm3 had fog of war.
HOMM3 is a charming, but simplistic game. I've played it probably thousands of hours, on and off for the last ~21 years. I play it still. That said, the general meta in battles boils down to 'archers gud, when meleeing try to always hit first unless you have no retaliation or you've spent their retaliation. Unless you're running around with Luna or smth. Anyway, cheese is the name of the game.

HOMM4 changes this with the simultaneous retaliations. A great deal of the time you can't expect to win a fight with zero losses. Additionally, most units have innate abilities that interact with each other. Line of sight matters a great deal, archers can generally not shoot at an enemy unit if another enemy is standing in the way. Caster units cast from a spellbook and have spellpoints, meaning they can be drained of spell points and left unable to cast, or be made to take damage every time they cast, and either way you select what you cast from the spells in the spellbook, according to the needs of the situation.

Morale is a lot more interesting, now. Penalties from mixing armies of several factions can be severe, and if you want to use units of opposed or opposed-adjacent alignment you will need plenty of artifacts or some ranks of the Leadership secondary skill. Factions and alignment tie into a lot of things, such as spell availability and recruitable hero classes. For example, on the one side you have access to the macroeconomic Lord with the important Nobility skill line, but no access to the Thief, which does double duty as scout and a stealth capable that can flag mines and snag resources without fighting, depending on level of skill and level of guardians. Both hero types giving strong economic benefit, but mutually exclusive and very different ways of playing. Their utility makes one or the other almost a necessity, but how much do you want to invest in heroes with a non combat skillset outside of the bare minimum when you could be prioritising someone else? Might sets itself apart by having no access to magic hero classes at all, and no mage guild, but starting out with instant access to the incredibly important Combat skill. Going full barbarian, no magic, is actually viable, and even fun. At all times during play there are more considerations to take into account than in the preceding game.

Gone is the infinite resupply chain, as every unit has its individually tracked movement pool. Caravans make it easier to recruit from dwellings or send armies between towns. Citadel and Castle is no longer a no brainer and is more situational as they only help during defense. The investment/return ratio on Town and City Hall is lower than it used to be - Capitol is no longer a thing. Weekly restocking of troops is replaced with a constant, gradual growth - no more day 7 sniping, and so on. Income from your town alone WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH to purchase all your weekly growth in a town with creature dwellings. Creature dwellings accumulate creatures, week by week, and weekly resource generators no longer need to have a hero stop by every week to collect. Spellpoints are less plentiful, with fewer wells scattered about and mage guilds restoring spell points at a percentage according to the level of the mage guild, although spells are cheaper to cast.

Having heroes participate directly in battle is not an upgrade so much as a sidegrade. It's just different. It works pretty well when the xp gain is downtuned, as with the mods. Various types of heroes can be a force multiplier, but can be fragile and possibly expensive to develop. Certainly expensive in terms of opportunity costs. The whole advanced classes thing is cool too.

In the vanilla state the game is badly balanced and buggy. With Equilibris or more especially the recently released Ultimate mod, it becomes apparent how much more depth there is to this game than HOMM3. It's impressive, really, how many issues they fixed over HOMM3 and how many things they iterated on. If it hadn't been such an unpolished mess, I'm sure it woulld have turned into something great. You can already see the outline of what could have been in what's already there.

These are some of the reasons you're wrong about saying I'm wrong. HOMM4 is a gem in the (noticably) rough.
 

Lord of Riva

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
2,763
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
HoMM 4 is the best of the series, not shitting you guys i fully concur with hello friend.

The whole HoMM formula has massive issues with scaling, it's just not well thought out.

The fourth installment tried to fix a lot of the stuff and a lot of it really works well. It's overall a great Improvement over any HoMM game prior and since and any of it's clones (like the crusade mechanics in Wrath)

There are still a lot of balance issues left, on bigger maps for example necromancy is just retarded but compared to the rest of the series? No contest.


...



Then there is Spazzmaticus and thus it's well deserved downfall, the series should just have died, i guess.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,491
Why are you people constantly trying to make a rocket science problem out of this. If you're making a sequel/remake/remaster/spiritual successor for a game like homm, you're making it for pre-existing community. Checking which game is the one community flocks around should be a 30 sec google search, tops.
 

hello friend

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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I'm on an actual spaceship. No joke.
We're just talking, man. Calm your tits. Clearly a HOMM3 spiritual successor should keep the heroes off of the battlefield. But surely, simultaneous retaliations would be a straight improvement? Or should Fanstratics be a HOMM3 facsimile according to a design crystallised forever in time? Caravans. Surely caravans must be halal. Even in a conservative successor, there are improvements to be made. I hope to one day see a spiritual successor to the 4th game as well, but that's not really on the table at the moment.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,491
Since we are having this discussion that was never had before, ever, let's maybe think if there's a homm game that made good innovations over 3 and was not a broken, stillborn mess. Maybe such game even exists, who knows, and could be used as a template.
 

catfood

AGAIN
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Aug 28, 2008
Messages
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Nirvana for mice
HoMM3 is overrated, with worse strategic gameplay than Age of Wonders and worse tactical gameplay than Eador.

If Fanstratics doesn't adopt various things like dropping the retarded infinite unit stacking, implementing unit upkeep costs, being able to move units around without heroes, and a miscellany of mechanics either original or copied from other games, then it's pointless.

Sorry but you can't have any of those things because:

The single most important question to ask here.

I believe the answer is yes, unfortunately.
You need to realise how much of a steaming pile of utter shit the HoMM3 hardcore fandom truly is. These people are soulless zombies chasing something they'll never get back in their life. They roam the realm looking for their lost paradise, shunning literally anybody who doesn't oblige to their lunacy.
With this in mind, yes, the game needs to be a carbon copy of HoMM3. Because, you see, their faith is based almost entirely on the realisation that HoMM3 is unsurpassed and any attempt at changing the formula is, to put it simply, an heresy punishable by (social) death. They are the true last boss of gatekeeping, the Dark Souls of retarded fanboyism, the ultimate step on the staircase to insanity.
Their modus operandi is always the same : does someone try to scratch the HoMM3 legacy ? If no, go to sleep. If yes, harass them. Harass them until they understand that their project isn't a carbon copy of HoMM3 and therefore flawed. If it happens to be a carbon copy, just ignore it because HoMM3 already exists and there's literally 0 reason to jump ship.

I really, for the life of me, will never understand these spastic fellows. They don't seem to understand the utter stupidity of their gatekeeping even. But utlimately, if you don't make a carbon copy, you'll get shit on.

Now picture this : you work on a game that only a handful of slavic peasants will pay attention to, and the only form of support they can give you is if you actually just remake HoMM3 pretty much exactly as it was, because the slightest difference will be condemned by their wise council of autists. Why would you not indulge in their madness, actually make a carbon copy, cash in and fuck off ?

HoMMo can't be improved upon because HoMMos won't allow it.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,491
You numpties need to stop mistaking your headcanons for reality and realise there's no hivemind of fans who think homm3 is a perfect formula that cannot be improved upon (see hota, hd, wog, homm5, modern multi templates). You're getting poked with sticks and laughed at because you think homm4 is that improvement.
 

Archibald

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,869
I mean sure, HoMM3 is still most popular and we have a guy who worked on it. So its not like he is going to do something else asides of HoMM3 clone + some ideas that he never managed to implement into HoMM3. Being good or moving the genre forward was never part of the equation.

If it hadn't been such an unpolished mess, I'm sure it woulld have turned into something great. You can already see the outline of what could have been in what's already there.

This is the frustrating part.
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
8,913
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
another dev of a beloved game, comes out of the woods and takes the turn to demonstrate that replicating nowadays past quality and fascination is doomed to fail because you may have been the game director then, but all those other 40-70 people you worked with then, were crucial to what the game was/is.
And there is no better example to that than Phoenix Point.

I have more faith in Songs of Conquest than in this high-school like project.


Oh, and the name?
What do you expect from someone with no social media presence!?
It's like two senile asylum residents want to relive their prime times.


Not even those artworks are that great.


upload_2021-10-8_23-29-4.png
vs
upload_2021-10-8_23-30-29.png


I'll take that plastic tits over kiddie friendly bland shit anytime.

 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Messages
698
What do you expect from someone with no social media presence!?
Is that supposed to be something bad?

you're conflating social media presence with obsessive use of social media.

if he would've had some social media presence, maybe it would've rubbed off on him the notion that Fantrastics is stupid as fuck.
You think sharing pictures with grandma on facebook means you're tuned into the zeitgeist?

If you don't use social media, you have a better grasp on what real people want. If you sit on twitter all day, you have a better grasp of what the 3 cat ladies who create all twitter content think.

He knows fanstratics is a terrible name, because he spends so much time trying to defend it.
 

Blake00

Learned
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
268
Location
Australia
Newsletter 15 is here guys! Gotta love the story about "Phil" lol.
https://www.fanstratics.com/fstnewsletter15

I must admit I'm seeing some of what Grotesque is frustrated about with Justin's fanstractics artwork. As yet again the hell hound concept in the latest newsletter is a standing humanoid creature holding a weapon. Why does every friggin creature and animal that guy draws need to be a humanoid wearing a belt or clothing and holding a weapon??? The war mammoth a few months back was terrible! Although maybe it's not his fault and its simply what Greg is asking for... :/

.
 

Archibald

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,869
Newsletter 15 is here guys! Gotta love the story about "Phil" lol.
https://www.fanstratics.com/fstnewsletter15

I must admit I'm seeing some of what Grotesque is frustrated about with Justin's fanstractics artwork. As yet again the hell hound concept in the latest newsletter is a standing humanoid creature holding a weapon. Why does every friggin creature and animal that guy draws need to be a humanoid wearing a belt or clothing and holding a weapon??? The war mammoth a few months back was terrible! Although maybe it's not his fault and its simply what Greg is asking for... :/

.

Did you miss this part in the newsletter:

When Justin delivered his first thumbnail for the Hell Hound, it was a stereotypical... four legged... Hell Hound. It looked great, but I’d asked for an anthropomorphic Hell Hound (a demonic lycanthrope). Justin has been rather busy these last two months, with numerous art-related and unrelated tasks, so the miscommunication was understandable. When I pinged him a second time, and refreshed his memory, he promptly delivered a follow-up thumbnail, which dramatically blossomed into this month’s Troop.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Messages
698
After some thought and reflection I have decided Stanfratics would be a better name for this game. Stan F Ratic could be the evil and uncreative wizard who is creating all these classical fantasy knock offs, and you have to kill him before he remakes HoMM3 and ruins yet another franchise retroactively.

Are you a bad enough dude etc...?
 

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