Interview FO3: John Deiley talks to GameBanshee

[Severian Silk]

nevermind

 

[Megatron]

The plot isn't that bad. It could be better though.

I think a good plot idea would be that you're a crasy hermit in some hills when some day a boy comes to deliver some sekret message from his old overseer. It could be a riddle or something dumb. On whatever the player decided the riddle means, that's what your main quest is? Bizarro. Every time you come to a random point in the game, you get a new riddle? There'd be a few for the computer to choose from, mabye they could have a bit of fore-shadowing, mabye they could just be random junk. That way it'd be up to the player on what to do next, as well as the game different at least a few times. The game could end with a big fight, it could end with the player wondering what all the messages he's been getting means and what he should do when he stops getting them.

It's not much of a main quest, but it's better than looking all over the place for an item again. Plus it could be a bit funny mebbe?

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Personally, I would have liked a "villager who decides to strike out on his own" kind of beginning. No quest right from the start, just some hints at places you could go to start the ball rolling. At that point, you would have the freedom to do whatever the hell you wanted and screw the main quest. I did like the idea of the two factions he mentioned though and think all RPGs should have tons of shit like that, especially ones that don't really effect the main quest but do have a visible impact on the game world. It would be even cooler if the main quest went on without you and maybe things you did in the outside world had an effect on the course of the main quest without you even getting involved. Maybe some other NPC decided to take it upon themselves to "save the world" or whatever and certain things you might change in the world around them might have an impact on whether or not they suceed or affect decisions they might make and therefore change the outcome of the whole thing.

Okay, enough wishing. Time for reality.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Quite frankly, Saint, I don't think your version of the beginning is any better (or more original) than the "escape from prison" one.

It is better. Anything is better then the prison thing that's been done to death. As for the Saint's idea, vaults are one of the trademarks of the FO universe, they are part of the setting, and it makes perfect sense to start with one instead of that lame FO2 village opening. The vaults provide good reason why the PC has no clue about the world outside instead of the amnesiac thing. It explains the basic or rudimentary skills in things like science, repair, doctor, etc; as it as highly unlikely that a tribal or some guy who's been living in a small town would even recognize a computer when he sees one, etc.

What do you people want? Yet another vault? Another Chosen One storyline? The same exact setting as Fallout 1?

No, apparently people can't get enough of the "you are being followed by killer-robots, uncover your past to survive the future" drama.

Oh, and ToEE's vignettes were overhyped shit. The opening vignettes I experienced gave me no more motivation to be in Hommlet than being placed in Hommlet with a message "you are now in Hommlet."

Better then nothing, much better.

Common, stop bitching and look at the storyline (assuming that it was presented accurately), the prison stuff, the hunting robots, the easily (by one guy) repairable railroads, cars, etc don't fit well.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Oh, and ToEE's vignettes were overhyped shit. The opening vignettes I experienced gave me no more motivation to be in Hommlet than being placed in Hommlet with a message "you are now in Hommlet."

Better to try, and fail, than fail to try. Perhaps you disliked the vignettes, or felt they were unecessary, that's your prerogative; yet it's undeniable that they helped give importance to alignment (and to the choice of it), plus a degree of motivation or background for the characters. Which is more one could say about the IE games, where whatever you are, everything happens the same.

 

[Volourn]

No. The The vignettes didn't highten the importance of alignment. Ooo... I'm chaotic eveil so I gotta wipe out a church. It's CE; not CRHM. The whole idea behind them was to give the player actual motivation to be Homlett; but in that aspect they utterly failed. Almost every other game I've played has given the player better; solid reason to be in the starting location even if the reason isn't new (ala the prisoner thing).

Quite frankly, out of all the ideas - both BIS' in the ones suggested in this thread - is Otaku's as though it is "generic"; it is also the most open ended and allows the player more freedom.

My choice for a start of FO3 would be a much more refined "vignette" sitautions.

Let there be three possible begnnings chooseable by the player depending on the character's choices.

1. You start in the Vault. You have skills associated with those associated with the vault.

2. You start ina small community ala FO2. You have skills that would fit there.

3. You start in the big city. You ahve city skills.

Note, your starting location is absed on your skill choices. So, if you focus on things like bater and persuasion; you'll start in the city as city folk tend to be more experienced with that shit. Choosing to specialize in computers would start you in the Vault since Vaults are known for their computers. On, and on.

Your motivation for exploring could be simple such as proving yourself to your tribe (village), need to expan your horizons and contact outside world for whatever reason (Vault); or you are tired of the city life/or accused of a crime (city). All sorts of reasons for the adventure to start can be given limnited only to imagination.

The early part of the game is basically just the player interacting with others in whatever way he/she sees fit. The "main quest" only starts when the player does something to trigger it. ie. Gets in the midle of warring gangs - one of which works for the atangonist; the other who doesn't wnat to; but is literally being forced to. of course, the player has the option to choose sides, ignore the conflict for the time until circumstances beyond their control forces them to action one way or the other.


That is all. :twisted:

 

[Megatron]

then what? The player going round helping the sick and needy? (or OMG TEH OPPOSITE BECUZ LEWL ITS NONLINEAR ) The alternative start sounds good, it was what I was expecting to happen in TOEE? It'd probably be messed up though, like all the starting locations in the same area or something dumb. I'd also prefer smaller scale stuff than saving the world all the time.

I don't think being chased by robots or anything is very original or anything, it just sounds like a remake of The Prisoner. I also wouldn't like the player to go looking for shit again, being forced to do stuff because some scary robots are chasing him or work for the Lady of Pain or whatever.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I still like the "villager striking out on his own" venue. Look at it this way:

At that point you start with a blank slate and go from there. What did they do before they struck out on their own? Were they local law enforcement? Were they the town drunk? Are they young? Old? And depending on age, you would get bonuses and minuses to skill and attribute points. Did they grow up on the streets stealing to make a living thereby giving them dexterity and stealth bonuses? Did they work on a farm thus giving them some constitution and strength bonuses perhaps?

The possibilities would be only limited by the game system itself. Just like in Daggerfall and Morrowind where you could create your own class instead of using the premade ones, only take it a step further and actually incorporate past experience (which Daggerfall did do to an extent).

My god, I totally would love a character creation system where you are not bound by anything but your imagination. Make the character a weakling who has good business skills and then become a trader. Or make them a strong ox who could hire themselves out as muscle.

It's completely doable to accomodate different character types into a game. It's been done a few times in the past and I would like to see it happen more.

 

[Azael]

The one thing that sticks out in this outline is the mention of some sort of Hunter-Seeker robot. I got the impression from the two previous games (I don't count Tactics) that robots were used for rather mundane tasks such as maintenance and guard duty, not complex things like tracking down fugitives. Not saying that it's impossible, just without precedence.

Other than that, the outline doesn't strike me as very "Falloutish" (or original), but without knowing how they would actually present the story, it's hard to make a final judgement. The merits of it is that it would allow for a number of different characters and backgrounds, but that could have been achieved in different ways as well. Like other have pointed out, it reminds me a bit too much of previous BIS games.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

No. The The vignettes didn't highten the importance of alignment. Ooo... I'm chaotic eveil so I gotta wipe out a church. It's CE; not CRHM.

They did more than past games, and like i said before, better than IE games. Better to give a slight importance to alignment than none. At least it reflects the choice *you* made.

Better "Ooo... I'm chaotic eveil so I gotta wipe out a church." than "Yay, i'm what-the-fuck-ever and still gotta do it all the same way.".

The whole idea behind them was to give the player actual motivation to be Homlett; but in that aspect they utterly failed.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Almost every other game I've played has given the player better; solid reason to be in the starting location even if the reason isn't new (ala the prisoner thing).

Perhaps, perhaps not. The fact remains that as far as D&D-based CRPGs in recent years go, it actually cared to give importance to starting alignment in a different way, and that actually reflected player's starting choice.

 

[Megatron]

I
My god, I totally would love a character creation system where you are not bound by anything but your imagination.

Try Fallout. :O

I think all of our ideas are basically the same: PLAYER STARTS IN CIVILISATION, LEAVES. Only the prison is a bit different, but terminators running around seem a bit dumb. Also if the robots look like the gasbot=lol.

 

[Jinxed]

No. The The vignettes didn't highten the importance of alignment. Ooo... I'm chaotic eveil so I gotta wipe out a church. It's CE; not CRHM. The whole idea behind them was to give the player actual motivation to be Homlett; but in that aspect they utterly failed. Almost every other game I've played has given the player better; solid reason to be in the starting location even if the reason isn't new (ala the prisoner thing).

I also noticed it was a little weak, but the evil vignettes have a lot more steam behind them.

ToEE is based in a PnP module. And when you PnP, you start off in a town or someplace near one without any *real* motivation except that you want to make money and get some adventures. ToEE isn't an Epic story of good vs evil, as each IE game is.

One thing comes to mind though, maybe they would give the player a choice to pursue why robots where after them, or just let them say fuck it and let the player get on with their shit? That would have been cool.

 

[Sheriff05]

No. The The vignettes didn't highten the importance of alignment. Ooo... I'm chaotic eveil so I gotta wipe out a church. It's CE; not CRHM. The whole idea behind them was to give the player actual motivation to be Homlett; but in that aspect they utterly failed. Almost every other game I've played has given the player better; solid reason to be in the starting location even if the reason isn't new (ala the prisoner thing).
:

Whats your point?, to reinforce your opinion that people that like ToEE are morons or idiots? IF so please clarify

I thought this thread was about FO3, but since you always want to talk about ToEE

please answer these questions regarding the games "utter failure" to provide motivation-

Please illustrate with specifc examples from other games exactly how ToEE has failed to highten the importance or give some reasonable motivation for each alignment?


I don't really think it's too much of a stretch using the 4 alignments I used to play through the game-
LE- Return Fragarch to the church of Hextor
LN- Stop the bandits raids
CN- Your on a treasure hunt,
CG- rescue the elves
While each of these vignettes may be trite and not really add to a hill of beans in the grand scheme of game, but at least there is REASON for why you are *there*

How this an "utter failure" in comparision to what specifically?

What other games give the player a "Better Solid Reason" for begining where they do?

Given the ToEE isn't sequel and you don't have an entire previous games story to based your starting point on

How does the game "utterlly fail" given the opening cutscenes and the starting Vignette's to give the player at least "Some" moitivation to their alignment and why they are in Hommlet?

How this is any worse than the shit you love to jerk off over?

 

[Voss]

Well, that was an interesting overview of the game that won't be.

Reactions:

Chased by killer robots?
Ho hum.

Railroad Fixin' Boy?
You have to be fucking kidding me. Theres so many things wrong with this. (100 years of exposure in the wasteland, carrying around steel beams and planks to fix the railroad, etc..) I can deal with people's obsession with cars (and horses in fantasy), but this is just silly.

Genetic Goddess.
Potentially interesting, though I'm oddly reminded of the movie 'She'. One of the odder post-apoc films.

The engine was about 95% done. You could create characters, use skills, perform both ranged and melee combat, save/load games, and travel across maps. We had a tutorial level done that would let you do all of the above. All areas but one had been designed. About 75% of the dialogs were done and at least 50% of the maps. We had character models and monster models

Thats a hell of a lot done for Interplay just to bag it.
But ah, well.

Dead is dead. And after kicking the team to the curb, replacing them to finish it off (as some overly optimistic people have speculated) would guarrantee suckage.

 

[Volourn]

I'll tell you what games give you better motivation. Here are just some examples:

1. BG, FO1, FO2 & countless others: You start off in your hometown. Can't do much better than this. Yes, it's simple yet effective and it actually does add to the overalls cheme of the respective games.

2. BG2, LH & Others: You are a prisoner. Escape, and dela with your former apturers

3. Arcanum & Others: Youa re travelling, and your ride is attacked. Deal with it, or not...

4. Gold Box Games, Wizardy series, & Might & Magic series as well as a host of tohers; Youa re an adventurer, or a group of adventurers out looking for adventure.


All of these are tons better than the vignettes> Why/ Because it doesn't happen to handciap your characters' motivations or streotype alignments to the ame degree the vignettes do. I mean, OMG. I'm CE so that means I'ma lunatic who wipes out entire churches just because I'm paid. TM. LMAO I dunno about you; but I rarelt play any characters even CE ones like that. Only when handling basic monsters such a base and cras motivation should be acceptable or in rare cases where the characteris special. Also, everyone of these games shown for the most part do provide motivation.

I dunno about you; but I jerk off with porn; not games.

 

[Jinxed]

I mean, OMG. I'm CE so that means I'ma lunatic who wipes out entire churches just because I'm paid.

In ToEE the OV of Chaotic evil was wiping out some peasants. One of the better OVs, since you travel to Hommlet out of sheer greed.

 

[Volourn]

Okay, peasants.. Comes down to the same thing. Not all CE do things because they're greedy. Where's all the hoopla of evil does not equal greed? I think what gets me is the vingnettes could have; should ahve been more. In fact, I asked about thsi pre release on the Atari baords and I was told they would be meaninfgul. I guess that was changed due to time...

And, oh, Sherriff, I didn't bring up TOEE; others dead. I just responded to others' posts - unlike you i read an entirety of posts. Did you *not* notice that most of my orioginal post was about the subkject at hand. It's you and others who have driven the conversation striaght into the waiting arms of your One. True. Love. Of. Perfect. Games. Known. As. TOEE.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Quite frankly, Saint, I don't think your version of the beginning is any better (or more original) than the "escape from prison" one.

What do you people want? Yet another vault?

Like I said, vaults are a staple of the Fallout series. It beats the hell out of being the fourth game from BIS where you start out in a highly specific type of environment like a prison. Only one Fallout game has started in a vault versus three games so far that have started in a prison. Starting out in a run down vault is a unique spin on a location for a Fallout town, since the only run down vault we've seen people exist in thus far would be Vault 15 in Fallout 2. They weren't exactly a village either, they were just the remnants if The Khans. So, really, a vault being used as just a large shelter from the elements and nothing more is something we haven't really seen.

We also haven't seen a group of people using a vault as it degrades and sticking to it. They started off like every other vault, but as things broke down, they rigged other ways of getting things to work. They could even be like adobe cliff dwellers who live in the cliff facings of rocky areas and plant crops and such in the flat valleys and plateaus just near them.

Another Chosen One storyline?

Where did I say use a Chosen One story? I didn't. I said give the player a reason to leave based on how he initially acts in the starting location, not draw him out from the herd and say, YOU'RE OUR HERO! SAVE US! In fact, I even said NOT to use something like that.

In fact, the whole thing about WHY ARE THE KILLER ROBOTS OUT TO GET THE PLAYER is Chosen One-esque. If the person who owned the robots didn't think Player=Chosen One, you wouldn't have such a construct.

The same exact setting as Fallout 1?

Yeah, what was I thinking? They should use another setting for Fallout 3! Perhaps Planescape would be better!

Where's your fucking originality?

Where's your clue?

Oh, and ToEE's vignettes were overhyped shit. The opening vignettes I experienced gave me no more motivation to be in Hommlet than being placed in Hommlet with a message "you are now in Hommlet."

The vignettes were a hell of a lot better than starting in a town there to save it, a la IWD and IWD2. Why the hell would a chaotic evil party be there for that? After all, in the end, they all end up saving the town, so HOORAY!

 

[Volourn]

Actually, the motivation of the IWD series was not to save the village; but you were mercenaires getting paid. Of course; it'd be nice to have the option to change sides if one so wishes.

 

[Vault Dweller]

We also haven't seen a group of people using a vault as it degrades and sticking to it. They started off like every other vault, but as things broke down, they rigged other ways of getting things to work. They could even be like adobe cliff dwellers who live in the cliff facings of rocky areas and plant crops and such in the flat valleys and plateaus just near them.

That's what i thought when I read your idea. I imagined the vault slowly degrading and substituting technology and supplies with whatever is available, having garden patches, water pipes from the stream to the vault, tool development (fishing hooks and traps), and evolving culture of the vault where they try to record the knowledge to the best of their ability as the electricity supply is limited and they can access computers once a month or on some big occasion, etc.

 

[taks]

The vignettes were a hell of a lot better than starting in a town there to save it, a la IWD and IWD2. Why the hell would a chaotic evil party be there for that? After all, in the end, they all end up saving the town, so HOORAY!

that's the one i have to disagree with. i have no problem with having the same reason for being in a town regardless of how i play. the option to deal with the reason is where the true roleplaying lies. a CE team may have been brought in to investigate problems, but once they get there, their true motivations can be explored. they can easily decide to stick things out and get the reward or whatever meanwhile, the strange deaths that are occuring in the area go unsolved. or they could show up under the guise of helping and, once the town's guard has been dropped, take advantage of the situation by raping, pillaging, stealing and eating babies

in other words, the reaction of your party to the circumstances surrounding their situation is what roleplaying should be about. not why you've been summoned... all the vignettes did was give you a reason to be there and then excuse your actions later (half of which did nothing but that... "here's your motivation, to to it". i'd much rather be brought in under the same circumstances and then shift towards my style of play later... why should the town be aware of my motivations before i am? why should my motivations force me to start a game on a certain path?

keep in mind, i don't think the chosen one scenario is really all that great, either (well, not always). that suffers from the same problem... your path is pre-determined.

mark

 

[Sheriff05]

And, oh, Sherriff, I didn't bring up TOEE; others dead. I just responded to others' posts - unlike you i read an entirety of posts. Did you *not* notice that most of my orioginal post was about the subkject at hand. It's you and others who have driven the conversation striaght into the waiting arms of your One. True. Love. Of. Perfect. Games. Known. As. TOEE.

Like I said last week, I am going to insist you BACK YOUR SHIT UP
You are just using your opinion of 10 games that you think are better as blanket answer to the questions you want to dodge, please answer the questions I ask above, specifically-
you want to call the ToEE vignette's an "Utter failure" please explain
"utter failure" in correlation to what??
I don't see them any better or any worse than any other game-

Nobody here claims ToEE is greatest game ever made
I clearly illustrated to you the other day, *why* folks like it

However your constant vitriol that ToEE is the blueprint for everything that's wrong with CRPG's, make anything you say suspect bullshit.

 

[Volourn]

You should back your statemnts up as your lies ooze your posts. I ahve never stated in alls eriousness that TOEE is an example of "all that is wrong withc rpgs". When you cna stop lying; then come back. Deal? It's kinda funny since I don't even think every game I listed there are evn better then TOEE. definitely not the M&M, or IWD2 for damn sure. See, once again, you make up bogus stuff withpout backing them up with fact.

However, you can insist all you want; you don't always get what you wnat. I'll continue to inists on laughing at your love affair with the greatest game ever TM that is TOEE; and at all the "facts" you make up in regards to what I post or do not post.

Enjoy. :D

 

[Sheriff05]

You should back your statemnts up as your lies ooze your posts. I ahve never stated in alls eriousness that TOEE is an example of "all that is wrong withc rpgs". When you cna stop lying; then come back. Deal? It's kinda funny since I don't even think every game I listed there are evn better then TOEE. definitely not the M&M, or IWD2 for damn sure. See, once again, you make up bogus stuff withpout backing them up with fact.

However, you can insist all you want; you don't always get what you wnat. I'll continue to inists on laughing at your love affair with the greatest game ever TM that is TOEE; and at all the "facts" you make up in regards to what I post or do not post.

Enjoy. :D

Pathetic spin, answer the original questions or don't waste OUR (as in everyone here)
time..I never lie and always "back up my shit"..if you have examples please post them
and point out where I am in error,
You're right I "don't know" (or care) what you think about "X" game, all I know is you didn't answer the question..you just rattled off a list of games.

you said

I'll tell you what games give you better motivation. Here are just some examples:

1. BG, FO1, FO2 & countless others: You start off in your hometown. Can't do much better than this. Yes, it's simple yet effective and it actually does add to the overalls cheme of the respective games.

2. BG2, LH & Others: You are a prisoner. Escape, and dela with your former apturers

3. Arcanum & Others: Youa re travelling, and your ride is attacked. Deal with it, or not...

4. Gold Box Games, Wizardy series, & Might & Magic series as well as a host of tohers; Youa re an adventurer, or a group of adventurers out looking for adventure

That's pretty vague, and does not come close to answering the questions I made about your specific assertions. I don't know *where* you rate ToEE in terms of everything else, all i know is you constantly talk shit about it and never bother to back up your claims with specific examples...so once it again it just boils down to your shitty little opinion. You are incapable of making an actual argument, feel free to prove me wrong-

This whole discussion really has nothing to do with ToEE and everything to do with MY
assertions that you're nothing but a trolling little asshole with nothing of any substance to contribute to this or any other forum.

 

[Volourn]