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FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix, a free Fallout MMORPG

Dr Tomo

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I'm not sure why you willfully ignore the existence of Eve Online and even the pioneer of the entire genre, early Ultima Online. It doesn't lend any credibility to your argument, it just makes you look willfully ignorant. :lol:

You really don't help yourself when you mention Eve Online as an example. This FO mmo is ffa pvp with no restrictions while Eve there are always penalties regardless of the sec and so new players or old are always protected if they are smart about it. Granted Shihonage might be more pve carebear from other theme park games he is still right that ffa pvp with no restrictions are pretty much dead and we can see this on the success of Eve compared to Darkfall even with CCP running the game into the ground.

Also having talked to a lot of people that have played UO it didn't take long before ffa pvp killed that game as well until EQ came along, but that is from the grape vine as they say. Aoc also had ffa pvp at release and Funcom by their Oct update changed it to limited ffa pvp because the amount of players that jumped ship (a lot of players jumped ship in July because of the grind pace/bugs more later on the pvp servers).
 

shihonage

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Skipping what is addressed by above reply already.

No need to ruin Fallout's long-standing history as a gaming classic. I mean, I definitely don't want to see AAA+++ popamole shooter marketed as Fallout. Nor a WoW clone. Hell, even Oblivion With Guns™ was better than either of those options, although it already had the level of decline required to be a themepark MMO.

Unlike themeparks, a sandbox MMO can capture the freedom and harshness of Fallout setting perfectly

And an orange captures the roundness of a watermelon perfectly. However, watermelon has a lot more properties that make it what it is.

I don't like small servers with a few thousand pop (ie. most MMOs on the market), I prefer one unified world run by hundreds of thousands of players, something actually "MASSIVE". (Not that arbitrary large number of players on a server has any meaning if player interactions are artifically limited by game mechanics.)

There will never be self-imposed civility in a FFA PvP MMO the way it would happen in real life, i.e. Wild West. Because real life matters, and online games don't.

There will never be a MMO world "RUN" by players who are free to do anything they want. First and foremost, it has to have rules that herd the unruly bastards into acceptable behaviors in acceptable places, and protect the new players, otherwise you lose everyone except the scum of the earth.

But you should already know and understand that becoming truly massive is obviously not the goal of FOnlines. They have to stay low-key for reasons mentioned in the very first reply to this thread.

When you create a game for twitchy 13 year olds who grind gear 24/7 and instakill newcomers, and that's the population you'll get. If you build it, they will come. Hope that's your intended goal.
 
In My Safe Space
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The problem with FOnlines isn't PvP. The problem is grinding and no permadeath.
Open PvP would be great without grinding and without permanent characters with inflated power.
 

naossano

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That's seems one of the challenge of that project.
They mentioned more than once that want to gave a chance to newcomers with these 4 open factions, (anyone can join and have allies).
There is also the thing that the map is huge. It isn't perna death, but if you die during a battle in the middle of the city, he would take you too much time to come back, not mentioning the ennemies you might encounter. The more you go deep into the city, the more you don't want to die.
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
The most important problem with lack of permadeath is that it promotes greater inequality. Old players have extremely powerful characters while new players have total wimps that need to be grinded for a lot of time despite that the old players haven't consistently survived for all that time.

One alternative to permadeath could be resetting the killed character to level 1. So, players could have permanent identities, but not permanent character power.
 

Shangalar

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Jun 12, 2014
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Hello everyone!

Development on Ashes of Phoenix has been really intense during this summer, and thanks to your support and feedback, we've been able to bring multiple improvements to the game. Now, it is time for the launch.

Friday the 5th of September, the public server will be officially open for everyone. That means you'll be free to download the game client and jump into Arizona with all of us and start the adventure!

In a couple of days, game rules will be posted on our forums and the installation procedure page will be updated. We'll post an announcement about it before launch day so you can perform the game installation already if you wish. The exact hour of the launch and some other details will be given at the same time.

This version 1.0 is just the beginning of the Ashes of Phoenix journey though. We have plans for the future weeks and months, and you can expect the game to evolve regularly. We'll talk about this in more detail in a few weeks. You can also expect us to ask your opinions about features of the game, both existing ones and new ones that we plan to introduce. Thanks to those discussions, we hope to develop a better game that corresponds to your desires, and also give you a clearer picture of our vision for Ashes of Phoenix in the future. This game is about combat, exploration, survival and politics, and all those aspects have not been equally developed yet. There is much more to come!

On top of that, in order to allow everyone to take a look at raw footage straight from the battlefield, we will host a livestream on twitch.tv on August 30th, 8-10pm CET, showing live zone control in action.

We hope you'll have much fun playing AoP and we want to thank you for your support which is extremely helpful, boosting our spirit and giving us the energy we need to continue on. We hope you're as excited as we are to start plundering Phoenix with all our friends!

See you soon in Arizona!

------------------------

Now back to the debate here.

Dr Tomo:

This FO mmo is ffa pvp with no restrictions

Actually no, in AoP players have to join one of the four main factions. By doing so they will automatically be allied with the other members. While they can decide to shoot each other, doing so would be done at a great cost of reputation, reputation which is required to access the most advanced services of your faction. If you drop too much, you'll be expelled from your faction.

shihonage:

There will never be a MMO world "RUN" by players who are free to do anything they want. First and foremost, it has to have rules that herd the unruly bastards into acceptable behaviors in acceptable places, and protect the new players, otherwise you lose everyone except the scum of the earth.

I totally agree, that's why factions exist and why there are guards to protect the main hubs. Besides, I think that being raped by another faction is probably a good reason to start playing along with other members. You don't necessarily need to spend much time on that, just following a group can already be helpful, for example when you just started playing the game. Playing Rambo alone in the city would certainly lead to your death.

This game encourages and even enforces cooperation. Players sticking to FFA behavior will lose.

Awor Szurkrarz:

The problem with FOnlines isn't PvP. The problem is grinding and no permadeath.
Open PvP would be great without grinding and without permanent characters with inflated power.

AoP doesn't enforce any grinding. Lvl 1 characters are not babies who just got out of their cradle. They are able to fight and survive well already. There are no implants and such items that cost millions of caps and make you much stronger than regular characters. Being a crafter doesn't prevent you either from being a fighter, as non-combat skills are improved by use and not by points. Reaching the level 24 softcap will prevent you from getting more HPs on next levels. You won't get any more combat perks nor will you be able to spend skill points on your tagged skills. Instead you will gain new perks improving your comfort, and your points will be invested in your other skills, that you probably never raised until then. All in all, you'll be more versatile, but not strictly more powerful.

One alternative to permadeath could be resetting the killed character to level 1. So, players could have permanent identities, but not permanent character power.

I think that would potentially imply a lot of grinding, and if you got disconnected, if you click by accident or whatever else can happen, you'll be really angry. Perhaps there are ways to counter those issues, but that's anyway not our priority right now. Losing all your carried equipment is already a big penalty, as equipment plays its role just as much as your build/level and player skill do. I don't see why you should lose experience as well.

Gaining power in AoP to the extend you're mentioning, "promoting a great inequality among players", is impossible in AoP. Your only limits are your own skill and equipment, your ability to use every single weapon, trick, trap and plan to win battles. You can smash anyone, and anyone can smash you, the smartest and the fastest win. At some point (which is pretty early), your character level will matter less than your skill. And if you know where to find what you need, you won't spend much time on gathering your equipment. This game is not focused on doing chores at all.
 

Dr Tomo

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The most important problem with lack of permadeath is that it promotes greater inequality. Old players have extremely powerful characters while new players have total wimps that need to be grinded for a lot of time despite that the old players haven't consistently survived for all that time.

One alternative to permadeath could be resetting the killed character to level 1. So, players could have permanent identities, but not permanent character power.

Yes and no. Eve online is a good example of no perma death and a recently created character can easily destroy a high level character depending on knowledge of the game. Seen a lot of kids use their parents CC to pick up 200 mill sp char or more (haven't played Eve for so long can't remember the skill ceilings) and still lose to players who likes to reroll new char and jump in a bc (T1 tier ship) and kill their T3 ships. The only time perma death is necessary is if, the game is a sandbox at the same level as Eve, as CCP is starting to learn that no perma death in a sandbox games causes stagnation.

This game isn't a sandbox that I am aware of so I think the inequality will be no different then your wow or rift pvp servers.

Thank you Shangalar for the clarification as the pvp discussion made it sound like ffa pvp, which is shitty period and why I have seen a lot of servers that institute this end up renege later on to keep the population of the server from dying.
 

Shangalar

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Finding equipment is easy enough if you know where to look for components and how to take advantage of situations. Getting levels can be done via any activity, you don't need to hide and grind max lvl fragging mobs to be efficient. At level 10 already, you can take part in actions with lvl 24+ characters and be useful. You certainly won't be as efficient as them, but that doesn't mean you can't save your mates when it matters the most. The best way to gain experience is probably to take part in zone control and kill enemy players.
 

epeli

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Aug 17, 2014
Messages
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You really don't help yourself when you mention Eve Online as an example. This FO mmo is ffa pvp with no restrictions while Eve there are always penalties regardless of the sec and so new players or old are always protected if they are smart about it. Granted Shihonage might be more pve carebear from other theme park games he is still right that ffa pvp with no restrictions are pretty much dead and we can see this on the success of Eve compared to Darkfall even with CCP running the game into the ground.

Also having talked to a lot of people that have played UO it didn't take long before ffa pvp killed that game as well until EQ came along, but that is from the grape vine as they say. Aoc also had ffa pvp at release and Funcom by their Oct update changed it to limited ffa pvp because the amount of players that jumped ship (a lot of players jumped ship in July because of the grind pace/bugs more later on the pvp servers).

Eve Online does many things right. What I'm interested in are believable game worlds with no artificial limitations, not completely chaotic slaughter just for the lulz. If I want to gank someone in highsec, I can do it, but there will be consequences. Unfortunately for the carebears, a believable MMO set in Fallout universe won't have many havens of relative safety.
AOC at release time had enjoyable gameplay, but being a poorly optimized pile of bugs is what killed it for me, and I feel that is what killed it for most of its players back then.
Darkfall died before it ever got released, thanks to its community of twitchy 13 year olds, as shihonage put it. So he definitely has a point there.

If you ask me, FFA PVP didn't kill UO and neither did the introduction of Trammel. Publish 16 killed UO. It had been declining for a while already and that was the final nail on its coffin.
 

Nael

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It is almost time, brothers.

It is time for the Kodex Kill Kompany to rise

RK47 zwanzig_zwoelf Kalin Ninjerk Redeye Severian Silk Nael

Am I forgetting anyone else?

It is time to ride out into Arizona and show these newfags who the true hardcore are!
No Surrender!
No Regret!
No Dumbing down!
No Weakness!
NO MERCY!


Query: Which faction we will join? Personally I suggest we join the http://fonline-aop.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jim_&_Jack_&_Joe_Lawyer_Agency or http://fonline-aop.net/wiki/index.php?title=The_Family, the V-Techs are a bunch of matriarchal fedora goons to me, Brahminboys are too rustic for my taste. I personally prefer the guys who swear on a Codex of Laws and consider outsiders as cattle.

So let's join the JJJLA or The Family and make our own Platoon!

Imma take deez muthafuckas loot and delete that shit nigga! Watch dem bitches cry.

_768-.png


I have no idea. What were we talking about?
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
Finding equipment is easy enough if you know where to look for components and how to take advantage of situations. Getting levels can be done via any activity, you don't need to hide and grind max lvl fragging mobs to be efficient. At level 10 already, you can take part in actions with lvl 24+ characters and be useful. You certainly won't be as efficient as them, but that doesn't mean you can't save your mates when it matters the most. The best way to gain experience is probably to take part in zone control and kill enemy players.
Level 10? That's how much grinding?
 

Redeye

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Also: put spies in the other factions. With high barter/whatever to get anything special their merchants or other support have to offer.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
It is almost time, brothers.

It is time for the Kodex Kill Kompany to rise

RK47 zwanzig_zwoelf Kalin Ninjerk Redeye Severian Silk Nael

Am I forgetting anyone else?

It is time to ride out into Arizona and show these newfags who the true hardcore are!
No Surrender!
No Regret!
No Dumbing down!
No Weakness!
NO MERCY!


Query: Which faction we will join? Personally I suggest we join the http://fonline-aop.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jim_&_Jack_&_Joe_Lawyer_Agency or http://fonline-aop.net/wiki/index.php?title=The_Family, the V-Techs are a bunch of matriarchal fedora goons to me, Brahminboys are too rustic for my taste. I personally prefer the guys who swear on a Codex of Laws and consider outsiders as cattle.

So let's join the JJJLA or The Family and make our own Platoon!
Not sure if I'll have enough time for FOnline.
 

naossano

Cipher
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Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,232
Location
Marseilles, France
Query: Which faction we will join? Personally I suggest we join the http://fonline-aop.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jim_&_Jack_&_Joe_Lawyer_Agency or http://fonline-aop.net/wiki/index.php?title=The_Family, the V-Techs are a bunch of matriarchal fedora goons to me, Brahminboys are too rustic for my taste. I personally prefer the guys who swear on a Codex of Laws and consider outsiders as cattle.

So let's join the JJJLA or The Family and make our own Platoon!

Considering i was a TTTLA on Fonline2238, i will probably be a JJJLA on AOP.
By the way, what would be your ingame common name ? So i will know if there is a platoon.
 

DefJam101

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oh look another thread about an open pvp game full of people who don't play open pvp games acting like they know what they're talking about
 

set

Cipher
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Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
The amount of carebare in this thread is making me physically illl.

PVP-based MMOs can and have been good. If you're a themeparker who just wants to see numbers and colored text on his screen, consider acquiring some taste.
 

naossano

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Messages
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Location
Marseilles, France
Not the way it is currently designed.
Every player of the server are in the same city, the same maps.
Possibly 50 players-characters & 10 NPC on the same map, all waiting turn ?

The best way to have turn-based in a multiplayer, IMO, is to have coop or to make deathmatch (or other rules) with a limited number of players in a limited-sized location.

Open PVP doesn't fit with turn-based.
 

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