For those who played Fallout 2 before playing Fallout

[Vault Dweller]

Oh, I see. So it's not well-designed because it doesn't clearly point out all solutions for you? It's a good quest that rewards those who bother to observe their surroundings and think of what a stick of dynamite can be used for by giving them a quick and easy solution to the job.

No, it's because it doesn't clearly point out the possibility of a solution.

It does. Unless you are upset that there is no big yellow arrow pointing to the weak point.

 

[Kavax]

Yeah, the villains of both games are actually quite insane.

LAWL. And the one in Arcanum too!

Well... Kerghan might be more emo and cynical than insane.

Well, who is THE villain then? The president? The president is an info-dump character. He exists to tell you about what's going on and confirm that the plot is actually stupid. You don't "deal" with him. You listen to what he has to say, get the access code, leave.

So you always have to fight the Very Definitely Main Villain at the end? You kinda deal with him when you blow up his oil rig...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Discussing with VD is helpless. At no point he will admit defeat. In fact, his unwarranted self-importance ....

I'm sorry for having an opinion. I didn't know I was expected to agree with you to avoid being called self-important. Speaking of which, how exactly did you arrive at that "unwarranted self-importance" thing?

I now expect your usual servomechanical response.

It is clear that you're interested only in typing insults instead of having a debate, so I'll pass.

So does "Clear the Radscorpion caves".

Was explained.

He is a lesser villain. The true villain is the Enclave, the U.S. government, represented by the President (in a vicious republican sense), with its self-righteous clauses for Vault experimentation, genocide and unfettered extermination.

If you say so. I'm sure you know better.

Methinks you've missed the point of the whole game.

There was a point?

Again missing the point. Jesus Christ, VD, how much can you fail?

A lot, apparently. For example, I mistook your trolling for an honest attempt to start a discussion.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Oh, I see. So it's not well-designed because it doesn't clearly point out all solutions for you? It's a good quest that rewards those who bother to observe their surroundings and think of what a stick of dynamite can be used for by giving them a quick and easy solution to the job.

No, it's because it doesn't clearly point out the possibility of a solution.

It does. Unless you are upset that there is no big yellow arrow pointing to the weak point.

Perhaps Fallout could do with some sort of a quest compass?

 

[Vault Dweller]

So you always have to fight the Very Definitely Main Villain at the end?

No. Read the second post in the thread.

 

[Kavax]

So you always have to fight the Very Definitely Main Villain at the end?

No. Read the second post in the thread.

Maybe you should read it, since you insist that Frank Horrigan is the main villain in Fallout 2, and even if he were, Frank Horrigan's fight can be skipped with the Presidential Access key or the help of the Enclave troopers with him.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I don't remember exactly how the part with the dynamite works, but it would've been better if it was dependent on stats. For example the character would notice the weak wall with a high perception and you'll get a notice in the text box. It doesn't happen like that, no?

 

[1eyedking]

In FO2's case, however, a coherent, already established setting got filled to the brim with lame pop culture references, in attempt to make it lulzy and more appealing to the younger crowd. Wanna quotes from movies and shows in every dialog? Check. Wanna gangsters? Check. Wanna aliens? Check. Wanna kung-fu fighters? Check. Wanna talking animals? Check. Wanna lots of tasteless sex? Check. Check. Check.

OK, so the younger crowd has played Wasteland, has read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Buck Rogers, has watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the Goonies, The Blues Brothers, Scarface, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly? There are many other references I can't remember of course, but those are a few that came off my mind.

If pop references are bad then mark Quentin Tarantino a second-rate writer & director, when in fact he has written and directed some very good material because he handled those references intelligently and creatively.

Sorry, I just prefer a more sophisticated experience.

Your monocle, sir, you seem to have dropped it. Pity it doesn't make you any smarter, but all the more ridicule.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

In FO2's case, however, a coherent, already established setting got filled to the brim with lame pop culture references, in attempt to make it lulzy and more appealing to the younger crowd. Wanna quotes from movies and shows in every dialog? Check. Wanna gangsters? Check. Wanna aliens? Check. Wanna kung-fu fighters? Check. Wanna talking animals? Check. Wanna lots of tasteless sex? Check. Check. Check.

OK, so the younger crowd has played Wasteland, has read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Buck Rogers, has watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the Goonies, The Blues Brothers, Scarface, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly? There are many other references I can't remember of course, but those are a few that came off my mind.

If pop references are bad then mark Quentin Tarantino a second-rate writer & director, when in fact he has written and directed some very good material because he handled those references intelligently and creatively.

Sorry, I just prefer a more sophisticated experience.

Your monocle, sir, you seem to have dropped it. Pity it doesn't make you any smarter, but all the more ridicule.

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

Now that's what a real man looks like.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So you always have to fight the Very Definitely Main Villain at the end?

No. Read the second post in the thread.

Maybe you should read it...

A promising counter-argument.

Frank Horrigan's fight can be skipped with the Presidential Access key or the help of the Enclave troopers with him.

It can't be skipped.

 

[1eyedking]

*snip*

A debate? With you? The word doesn't fit your style, VD. I remember speaking my mind about Fallout 3's speech skill's quest-skipping while you blatantly avoided the topic by stating some random quest had some saving grace.

Your recent response is no dissimilar. Trying to come off as clever by quoting a dictionary is insulting to an intelligence capable to extrapolate a villain's qualities to something that's not a person; and you don't need large amounts of it to pull that one off.

Therefore one can only grow content in replying to you by exposing the nonsense of whatever rabble you decided to write at the time, and grow satisfied at a chain of disjointed quotes with "cool lines" as a fitting answer.

As for your "unwarranted self-importance": if the above didn't satisfy...

If you say so. I'm sure you know better.

...I guess I should thank you for doing all the work for me, right next after your question.

 

[bhlaab]

It does. Unless you are upset that there is no big yellow arrow pointing to the weak point.

Yes, that's what I meant. I meant that the game should play like oblivion and be oblivion and be called oblivion and take place in the world of oblivion because oblivion is so much better than fallout and fallout is bad and oblivion is good.

I know it's tearing down every wall of the codex to say this but
My point != My point exaggerated 100-fold

You can't just hide a quest solution inside of a wall tile that looks the exact same as every other wall tile and try to pass it off as reasonable.

 

[Lockkaliber]

I am getting a serious deja vu feeling from this thread.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you first walk into the cave, don't you get a message in your little pip boy screen at the bottom saying something about the cave wall? That's fairly hard to notice, unless you're hyper sensitive to the slight noise that goes along with that, but I thought there was such an indication.

Of course, I never noticed it until I saw someone here mention it.

Nope, just checked that. You get a 'this part of the wall seems more unstable than the others' message when you hover your mouse over some rubble.

 

[Vault Dweller]

*snip*

A debate? With you? The word doesn't fit your style, VD. I remember speaking my mind about Fallout 3's speech skill's quest-skipping while you blatantly avoided the topic by stating some random quest had some saving grace.

I'm sorry that I've thoughtlessly hurt your feelings by avoiding a topic that was so important to you. Hug?

Therefore one can only grow content in replying to you by exposing the nonsense of whatever rabble you decided to write at the time....

Deep butthurt detected.

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

I'm with VD and Drog on this one. FO2 has the humour and the variety, but I personally prefer FO. Less content, more focus, better overall atmosphere. (Also, I had to actually force myself to somehow get through New Reno, that one location felt particularly out of place).

 

[Vault Dweller]

It does. Unless you are upset that there is no big yellow arrow pointing to the weak point.

Yes, that's what I meant. I meant that the game should play like oblivion and be oblivion and be called oblivion and take place in the world of oblivion because oblivion is so much better than fallout and fallout is bad and oblivion is good.

I know it's tearing down every wall of the codex to say this but
My point != My point exaggerated 100-fold

You can't just hide a quest solution inside of a wall tile that looks the exact same as every other wall tile and try to pass it off as reasonable.

Well, what do you expect? How would you let people know that the wall is unstable without making it too obvious?

 

[1eyedking]

I'm sorry that I've thoughtlessly hurt your feelings by avoiding a topic that was so important to you. Hug?

Deep butthurt detected.

[...] and grow satisfied at a chain of disjointed quotes with "cool lines" as a fitting answer.

 

[FeelTheRads]

How would you let people know that the wall is unstable without making it too obvious?

Stat checks would solve this problem, like I said above. Perceptive characters would see the weak wall, unperceptive ones wouldn't. And nothing would happen if you clicked on the wall with an unperceptive character.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do you need perception to figure out that you can blow up the entrance?

 

[bhlaab]

Well, what do you expect? How would you let people know that the wall is unstable without making it too obvious?

Off the top of my head I'd say a beam. It would look like decoration, but thinking players could go "Oh, that stands out a bit better click it" and even thinkinger players would go "Oh okay, take out the supports"

But I guess it's supposed to be a natural cave, so any sort of unique tile. I'm not saying Zelda-style super obvious cracks or make the wall bright green or some shit, but make it a bit crumblier. Just something to catch the eye of an observant player.

Stats-based highlights Vampire Bloodlines-style is also a good idea.

 

[1eyedking]

Do you need perception to figure out that you can blow up the entrance?

You do need some kind of evidence, since this is a game after all. Furthermore, it has an isometric perspective where you can't see the ceiling, and some very non-descriptive cave bitmaps.

I hope AoD won't have that kind of crap so we wouldn't have you going on a rampage on every man-known forum spouting how stupid your gamers are because they couldn't figure out the 'depth' your game actually had.

Ah, whatever. It would be comical.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Do you need perception to figure out that you can blow up the entrance?

Typical VD.

Yeah, why oh why do people think you're just a flip-floping asshole.

No, you don't need perception to figure out that you can blow up a cave entrance (maybe intelligence), but you'd need perception to notice the wall is weak, which is what the game says.
Otherwise, you should just be able to blow every cave entrance, if you're not gonna make it dependent on stats.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Therefore one can only grow content in replying to you by exposing the nonsense of whatever rabble you decided to write at the time, and grow satisfied at a chain of disjointed quotes with "cool lines" as a fitting answer.

What happened to our love, mang?

"I don't hate him or anything, man. In fact he's one of the few in this forum who's nice to have around. I may not agree with everything he says, but I respect him nonetheless, and I'd rather have him giving his opinion (which at times I do not share), bitching about the industry and pimping his game than keeping quiet. At least his ego is constructive rather than Toady One's, who keeps wasting time stroking it with empty elitist code instead of making his goddamn games playable."