For those who played Fallout 2 before playing Fallout

[Barrow_Bug]

There is sometime a feeling that Fallout, like some Adventure games, if you don't do things exactly like they want you to, you get punished-which is fair enough. However, because they never in any kind of way said 'By the way chummo, that's not going to work', you constantly keep going 'WTF?. I remember becoming a Slaver early in FO2, and the upon getting to New Reno I couldn't do shit because the guys that run the Porn Studio wouldn't talk to me because I was a slaver. Now that's fine (C&C and all that), but I don't recall either of them saying fuck off slaver or something ie I want nothing to do with you.

 

[Deadeye Dragoon]

Played FO2 first, and slightly prefer it to FO1. Main reason is simply length of play, second reason (prior to getting patched) was the annoying water chip timer. Additional reason is that I don't really care about all the pop culture references in FO2 either way, so haven't gotten all butthurt about them.

Both games had great gameplay (well, aside from combat), quests, npcs, RP opportunities, dialogue, etc. Virtually identical in quality imo, so the longer game gets the nod.

 

[bhlaab]

There is sometime a feeling that Fallout, like some Adventure games, if you don't do things exactly like they want you to, you get punished-which is fair enough. However, because they never in any kind of way said 'By the way chummo, that's not going to work', you constantly keep going 'WTF?. I remember becoming a Slaver early in FO2, and the upon getting to New Reno I couldn't do shit because the guys that run the Porn Studio wouldn't talk to me because I was a slaver. Now that's fine (C&C and all that), but I don't recall either of them saying fuck off slaver or something ie I want nothing to do with you.

What did they say? I've never become a slaver.

 

[Barrow_Bug]

I can't recall, all I know is that I had check out The Vault:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Corsican_Brothers

But now, I'm confused, because I thought this entry about the Corsican Brother(s) said they wouldn't speak with you because you were a slaver. Perhaps I fucked up, as this now says you need a better rep.

:shrug:

 

[Darth Roxor]

iirc, it's the NCR folks that wouldn't want anything to do with you if you were a slaver.

 

[Dark Matter]

Fallout 2 is vastly superior to Fallout 1. Only pretentious dickwads who think FO1 is somehow deep/intellectual would claim otherwise.

 

[Jim Cojones]

The Corsican Brother initially won't talk to you if you're a Slaver, but he will if you become a Prizefighter or Made Man.

# 46. BROS. PISSED (WTG)
{720}{}{Get outta here. I got nothing to say to you.}
{721}{}{Me and you got nothing to say to each other. Blow.}

 

[Barrow_Bug]

Uhhh, that's right.

 

[Fat Dragon]

The quest in Fallout 1 that really pissed me off was the Urn quest in Junktown.

Some police guy tells me to get rid of all of the gangsters. So I go to the bar, they start a fight with the waittress, and I kill them all. The game has absoloutely no response for that. The policeman just says "Why ain't you dealt with the gang yet!"
Fuck you.

Lars needs evidence to bust the entire gang. One possibly drunk guy starting a brawl in a bar isn't enough to warrant an attack on the gang.

Then I look at a walkthrough and see that I have to talk to the gangsters after they leave the bar, have them hire me to steal an urn, use it as evidence, and then kill them.
I reiterate, fuck you.

Don't see the problem here, your main objective in that job was to get evidence so he could take them all down. You did that and so the quest was complete. Anyways, if you didn't like that solution then why didn't you just look for another one? More than one way to bust that gang.

the annoying water chip timer.

What was so annoying about it? You're given more than enough time to get the chip and return back home. You won't fail that unless you just spend all your time dicking around doing pointless stuff.

Fallout 2 is vastly superior to Fallout 1

So, you like playgrounds full of whatever random shit the devs thought would be cool or funny and throws setting consistency out the window? You should pick up Fallout 3 then, you'd probably like that too.

 

[Deadeye Dragoon]

What was so annoying about it? You're given more than enough time to get the chip and return back home. You won't fail that unless you just spend all your time dicking around doing pointless stuff.

Dicking around doing pointless stuff should be an option, particularly in a game that features random events from travelling on the world map. Mainly I didn't like it because as a first run through and with no outside walkthrough help, I had no clue at all how long each phase would take. I felt I had to hurry through eveything, not knowing where I was in the plot and such. I DIDN'T know that I'd have more than enough time.

On subsequent runs it wasn't as annoying, but there should be no time limits on RPGs for their first run. It's an artificial tension mechanism that limits freedom, and for no real benefit.

 

[bhlaab]

The quest in Fallout 1 that really pissed me off was the Urn quest in Junktown.

Some police guy tells me to get rid of all of the gangsters. So I go to the bar, they start a fight with the waittress, and I kill them all. The game has absoloutely no response for that. The policeman just says "Why ain't you dealt with the gang yet!"
Fuck you.

Lars needs evidence to bust the entire gang. One possibly drunk guy starting a brawl in a bar isn't enough to warrant an attack on the gang.

If I had gotten a "You shouldn't oughta done that boy, but at least them gangsters is gone" or something I'd be fine with it. The fact that the game didn't react at all to one of the most obvious solutions bugs me.

 

[Fat Dragon]

What was so annoying about it? You're given more than enough time to get the chip and return back home. You won't fail that unless you just spend all your time dicking around doing pointless stuff.

Dicking around doing pointless stuff should be an option, particularly in a game that features random events from travelling on the world map. Mainly I didn't like it because as a first run through and with no outside walkthrough help, I had no clue at all how long each phase would take. I felt I had to hurry through eveything, not knowing where I was in the plot and such. I DIDN'T know that I'd have more than enough time.

Pretty sure that's exactly what the devs were going for. You're thrown out into a very hostile world with no damned clue on what to do and the clock is ticking. The time limit meant you had to consider what you do and where you go carefully.

On subsequent runs it wasn't as annoying, but there should be no time limits on RPGs for their first run. It's an artificial tension mechanism that limits freedom, and for no real benefit.

So how should it have been handled then? Would you have liked it better to be like the demon invasion in Oblivion? There's a huge threat that's going to cause some bad shit, but no worries, it'll be kind enough to just sit there and wait for you?

@bhlaab
Also keep in mind that Killian has an agreement going on with the Skulz. Lars needs to be absolutely sure before he does anything or else he could be in deep shit with Killian. A bloodbath before even having solid evidence isn't going to help him.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Fallout 2 is vastly superior to Fallout 1. Only pretentious dickwads ...

...think that their opinions are a sufficient argument.

 

[Barrow_Bug]

Fallout 2 was still more fun. Just sayin. For me. Roll on Page 6.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

it's weird. i think FO2 is more fun because it digs deeper, but FO1 got the setting and tone better.

 

[JarlFrank]

Playing Fallout 1 for realz for the first time now (I admit I never really played it because the time limit made me go WAAAAH) and finding it to be actually more enjoyable than Fallout 2. And the time limit really isn't a problem. Oh well, I still prefer Fallout 2 because it has more content. Not that there aren't any pop culture references in the first game already. Not as excessive, but they exist.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Played Fallout first, like Fallout more.

 

[Deadeye Dragoon]

Pretty sure that's exactly what the devs were going for. You're thrown out into a very hostile world with no damned clue on what to do and the clock is ticking. The time limit meant you had to consider what you do and where you go carefully.

Yeah, and it's not a good feature imo. The devs reverted it so apparently they rethought it as well. And I don't really care if a bad feature is exactly what devs go for--it just means they went for a bad feature.

Do you support it only for FO1 or for other games? 1 year limit on Arcanum? 3 month limit on JA2? Would these be good features or not? All three games have fairly pressing main quests, and hostile worlds that you're just thrown into...

So how should it have been handled then? Would you have liked it better to be like the demon invasion in Oblivion? There's a huge threat that's going to cause some bad shit, but no worries, it'll be kind enough to just sit there and wait for you?

It should be handled like every other RPG where there's a "pressing" threat--let the player decide how narrowly he should focus on the Big Threat vs. how much time he should feel free to explore side quests, optional areas, dicking around, enjoying the game, etc. Artificial time limits provide the wrong kind of motivation in open-ended RPGs.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

The quest in Fallout 1 that really pissed me off was the Urn quest in Junktown.

Some police guy tells me to get rid of all of the gangsters. So I go to the bar, they start a fight with the waittress, and I kill them all. The game has absoloutely no response for that. The policeman just says "Why ain't you dealt with the gang yet!"
Fuck you.

Lars needs evidence to bust the entire gang. One possibly drunk guy starting a brawl in a bar isn't enough to warrant an attack on the gang.

If I had gotten a "You shouldn't oughta done that boy, but at least them gangsters is gone" or something I'd be fine with it. The fact that the game didn't react at all to one of the most obvious solutions bugs me.

I also thought that there was a lack of repercussions if you just went there and shot the entire gang. When I went all Vigilante on Gizmo, Lars told me to fuck off and never return. But when I shot the Skullz, no one said anything. Go figure.

 

[nomask7]

Pretty sure that's exactly what the devs were going for. You're thrown out into a very hostile world with no damned clue on what to do and the clock is ticking. The time limit meant you had to consider what you do and where you go carefully.

Yeah, and it's not a good feature imo. The devs reverted it so apparently they rethought it as well.

Actually, the designers were completely different in FO2. It was one of those things, like when Kubrick made 2001, and then some asshole made a trashy sequel to it.

Honestly, I can't say it surprises me that so many people want empty games with lots of "fun" content rather than games that have interesting features, gameplay-wise, such as, well you know, a dynamic gameworld where everyone doesn't just wait for you to go talk to them and do some errands for them, even if it takes you a billion years, like there was nothing else in the game universe than you and your "fun quests" that it seems you don't want to miss any of for any price. It doesn't surprise me, because people are stupid. It makes me a bit rueful once in a while though. More often it makes me dream of purifying fires engulfing everything south of Helsinki, something that Wagner used to fantasize about too (although with a different set of coordinates).

 

[Fat Dragon]

Yeah, and it's not a good feature imo. The devs reverted it so apparently they rethought it as well. And I don't really care if a bad feature is exactly what devs go for--it just means they went for a bad feature.

So why is it a bad feature? Because it doesn't hold your hand and tell you where to go? Because it instead actually requires the player to put in some fucking effort to find out what to do and where to go? Fallout was never meant to be a game that held your hand and make everything easy for you.

Do you support it only for FO1 or for other games? 1 year limit on Arcanum? 3 month limit on JA2? Would these be good features or not? All three games have fairly pressing main quests, and hostile worlds that you're just thrown into...

I support it when it makes perfect sense for the story. Your people have limited resources, they can't wait forever for you. If Fallout didn't have a time limit then the game's story would make no sense at all.

-let the player decide how narrowly he should focus on the Big Threat vs. how much time he should feel free to explore side quests, optional areas, dicking around, enjoying the game, etc.

Fallout lets you do that. You're not required to give a fuck about the Vault or the time limit, you can just wander around and do as you please if you want. How you use the time given to you is entirely up to you.

 

[t]

MULTI HEADED DICKS HITTING ASS AND LEG

 

[bhlaab]

Fallout lets you do that. You're not required to give a fuck about the Vault or the time limit, you can just wander around and do as you please if you want. How you use the time given to you is entirely up to you.

Doesn't the game end if you run out of time?

 

[Fat Dragon]

Fallout lets you do that. You're not required to give a fuck about the Vault or the time limit, you can just wander around and do as you please if you want. How you use the time given to you is entirely up to you.

Doesn't the game end if you run out of time?

Yes. The people in the vault die because you abandoned them to pursue other things, main quest over, game ends. Unlike Fallout 2, Fallout 1 doesn't let you continue playing after the main quest is finished, regardless of how you finished it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Fallout lets you do that. You're not required to give a fuck about the Vault or the time limit, you can just wander around and do as you please if you want. How you use the time given to you is entirely up to you.

Doesn't the game end if you run out of time?

150 days is A LOT. You'd have to be very creative (read as go back and forth, constantly fishing for random encounters) to run out of time.

Pretty sure that's exactly what the devs were going for. You're thrown out into a very hostile world with no damned clue on what to do and the clock is ticking. The time limit meant you had to consider what you do and where you go carefully.

Yeah, and it's not a good feature imo.

Why?

The devs reverted it so apparently they rethought it as well.

Because many people whined and complained about it. Coincidentally, this is also the answer to "why did Fallout 2 have some many guns?'.

And I don't really care if a bad feature is exactly what devs go for--it just means they went for a bad feature.

Where is the proof that it's a bad feature? I understand that in the new and glorious Codex republic the burden of proof has been abolished, but still...

Honestly, I can't say it surprises me that so many people want empty games with lots of "fun" content rather than games that have interesting features, gameplay-wise, such as, well you know, a dynamic gameworld where everyone doesn't just wait for you to go talk to them and do some errands for them, even if it takes you a billion years, like there was nothing else in the game universe than you and your "fun quests" that it seems you don't want to miss any of for any price.

Then you are a wiser man than me, o Nomask. I was geniuinely surprised at many responses, including Jarl's. The guy was hanging around for a long time, wanted to be a mod here, yet had 0 interest in trying one of the best and most interesting RPGs ever created.

The new Codex is a strange beast indeed.