For those who played Fallout 2 before playing Fallout

[Hory]

Maybe in whatever wacky world you pretentious fags live in, video games are considered to be serious literature where one game can be considered better than another purely based on the seriousness with which it treats its setting. But that's not how it works down here.

What they are generally considered is irrelevant. Some people, usually of the intelligent sort, prefer setting to be congruent and veridical regardless of artistic medium.

That said, I did play FO2 first and enjoyed it more but, at the time, I didn't really realize the ridiculousness of it. Except for the ghost.

 

[kingcomrade]

Lots of fail in this thread. Epic failure in not being able to tell the difference between the goals and motivations of the Master and the President. Double epic failure in using your thesaurus to make yourself look like an idiot.

I found Fallout 2 to be boring. I started that game twice, didn't like it, didn't like the Fallout franchise. Then I played the original, which came bundled with it, and it became one of my favorite games of all time. Fallout 2 has just too much "uh...okay" content that I didn't really enjoy it much, and the final bad guys were lame. We, uh, don't like mutants, so we're gonna kill everyone on the planet. Well done, Black Isle. The Enclave fort should have had an evil Sauron eye above it.

 

[Dark Matter]

Maybe in whatever wacky world you pretentious fags live in, video games are considered to be serious literature where one game can be considered better than another purely based on the seriousness with which it treats its setting. But that's not how it works down here.

What they are generally considered is irrelevant. Some people, usually of the intelligent sort, prefer setting to be congruent and veridical regardless of artistic medium.

That said, I did play FO2 first and enjoyed it more but, at the time, I didn't really realize the ridiculousness of it. Except for the ghost.

I like settings to be those words you just said too. The point is that using that one factor alone as the deciding factor for which is better (in a video game) is ridiculous. Also, the maturity of FO1 and the immaturity of FO2 is greatly exaggarated. Yes, there are a lot of silly things in FO2, but it also has much more interesting and well-designed areas like the Vault City, New Reno etc.

Compare those with the Hub which is little more than a bunch of buildings clumped together in a manner vaguely resembling a town. Oh, and there's an evil crime lord. How incredibly mature, deep and original.

 

[1eyedking]

We, uh, don't like mutants, so we're gonna kill everyone on the planet.

We, uh, don't like humans, so we're gonna vat everyone on the planet.

Also, didn't the Overseer ask you to eliminate the mutant threat? And the BoS?

 

[Dark Matter]

Lots of fail in this thread. Epic failure in not being able to tell the difference between the goals and motivations of the Master and the President. Double epic failure in using your thesaurus to make yourself look like an idiot.

I found Fallout 2 to be boring. I started that game twice, didn't like it, didn't like the Fallout franchise. Then I played the original, which came bundled with it, and it became one of my favorite games of all time. Fallout 2 has just too much "uh...okay" content that I didn't really enjoy it much, and the final bad guys were lame. We, uh, don't like mutants, so we're gonna kill everyone on the planet. Well done, Black Isle. The Enclave fort should have had an evil Sauron eye above it.

Similarly, the Master should have had a Hitler mustache.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

holy shit. you guys are listening to the deep cuts. like, the DJ won't even play that shit, man.

now i remember why the decline is so sassy. i can't take it. i can't tell if the decline comes from the Bethie side or the people wasting incline time arguing about two incline games against each other.

damn, damn, damn.

just harsh is all.

 

[Gragt]

The Master said the remaining humans would be given a choice once the Unity achieved supremacy: be turned into a supermutant and embrace Unity or stay human but be sterilized. It's also genocide but not on the same level as the Enclave who just wanted to kill everyone ASAP and be done with it, without any sort of remorse because they consider them as non-human. The Master is evil and insane but keeps some ties to his humanity.

Because it forced you to narrow your focus on the main quest and limited freedom.

You have to tell me objectively why it's a bad thing. It does narrow your focus on the task at hand, one that isn't really the main quest, but focus doesn't mean you have to ignore the rest. Looking for the chip requires you to gather better equipment and enhance yourself, and the game gives you opportunities to do so while you are looking for it, jumping from town to town and letting you decide what would be the best course of action to do that. It limits your freedom but in exchange will ask you to involve you more into the game by sorting your priorities out. Not all limits are bad, and when used well they will have you approach things from a different angle you might not even have considered before. I actually consider "complete freedom" to be a poisonous gift, but this is my personal feeling.

I agree that Fallout's time limit isn't particularly well-developped but it works to give you an immediate overarching task and infuse some meaning into the other tasks you might decide to undertake, but it is balanced by not getting into the way and not becoming so trivial you can virtually ingore it, unless you have prior experience of the game. A more advanced system would be the Spirit Eater from Mask of the Betrayer, that can be dealt with in different ways and also reflects the growth and evolution of your character, but all things considered, the Fallout time limit works well. It's also too bad that the second, invisible time limit was removed, because the game had this clever mechanic of allowing you to add more time to the first time limit, which you can eventually lift, but by doing so reduce the second time limit, which sounds the end of the game if you didn't deal with the supermutant threat in time.

I don't recall Fallout 1 having an old witch doctor constantly contacting me in my dreams to remind me of how the village is doing and that I should get my ass in gear.

You get messages from your Pipboy when you have 100 and 50 days left, and of course the nice "TO DO" list when you open the Pipboy. The shaman messages certainly felt lame because the feeling of urgency wasn't there and they were just added for flavour.

On another note, this thread would be a lot more enjoyable without the ad hominem. Or maybe it would be more enjoyable if we had more of those. I'm still collating.

Oh and while at it: I played Fallout first then played Fallout 2. My copy of Fallout was in English and while I was still learning the language, it got me glued to the screen. When I got Fallout 2, it was a French version and I just hated the silliness of it all and couldn't finish the game. The translation wasn't very good but when I finally got the game in English later I found out that the original version wasn't that much better, while my progress in English allowed me to understand more of Fallout than when I first played it yet it still gave me this impression of quality and coherence of the setting.

Small anecdote, that I already shared before: I played Fallout after Diablo, I didn't know much about CRPG then and I somehow thought the two games were related because they both have an isometric view and send you on quests and let you kill stuff. As much as I liked Diablo and its real-time combat, I found that the turn-based combat of Fallout was revolutionary. Ah, the callowness of youth!

 

[Jasede]

The new Codex is a strange beast indeed.

The old Codex.
Remember.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Similarly, the Master should have had a Hitler mustache.

Fail.

Why?

Hitler (supposedly) wanted his master race to rule the world... well, for the heck of it. The Master, misguided as he was, considered the mutants are better suited for rebuilding in the post-nuclear world, and they would've been if not for the infertility and reduced intelligence. And again, when he finds out about that he realizes his mistake and gives up.

You really shouldn't talk about stupid Fallout 1 fanboys when you are a Volourn-level "OMG TEH MASTAR IZ LIKE HITLAR!!!!LOL!!!!" fanboy yourself.

 

[Darth Roxor]

*grabs popcorn*

 

[bhlaab]

I never saw the Enclave as cackling villains. Well, save horrigan obviously.
I saw them more as desperate to "fix" the apocalypse and try to pretend it never happened. And as awful and unlikely their plan was it seemed, well, about as noble as the master's plan anyway.

 

[poocolator]

Wow. Serious infighting here.
We should instead go troll Beth forums for the lulz; it's akin to smoking a peace pipe.

 

[Gnidrologist]

 

[thesheeep]

First of all, it always is a matter of taste.

Heck, for me, Warlords Battlecry 3 ist the best RTS game of all time, because I never encountered a game that combined RPG+RTS that well. And trust me, I know about all its flaws

So, if someone prefers more good content (and F2 content IS good, it is probably just not THAT good) over less content that fits together almost perfectly, he will like F2 more. Big deal.
Therefore, saying which game is superior is almost impossible, since it always depends on what your standards are.


On that Fallout 1 timer thing:

It IS a bad game decision.
This is because, in the beginning of the game you have NO idea how long it will take you to get that chip. The only thing you can assume is that the time will be enough to do the main quest.
So, if you are new to the game, you can either go the safe way, or do some exploring (which is a HUGE part of what is fun about such games) and risk not being able to finish the game.
You can't blame anyone for doing exploration, since -as I said- this is what makes most of the fun for many people. And yes, that also includes running around mindlessly in the wastelands, just for getting some fun encounters.
And then, they run out time and the game says "goodbye". Wtf? You just spent days or even weeks playing the game and then you can't complete it? No, just no.
And why? Because you wanted to explore, because you wanted to have some fun with the game.
This is even worse than hidden savegame corruptions (like in ToEE).
Yeah, players complaining about that surely are idiots.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be timers. I love the idea that quests will be auto-completed after a certain amount of time in AoD. But having a complete game timer, which will just go "game over" after a certain amount of time... no... no... no.

 

[skyway]

Yeah, players complaining about that surely are idiots.

True dat!

And its is a matter of join date.
< 2005 Fallout 1 exclusive
> 2007 Faggot

And I know what YOU gonna do now. Its not funny.

 

[Black]

I think this is similar to Red Alert 1 vs 2. The first one seems "realistic" doesn't have any PEW PEW LAZERS units and the only sci-fi things in it are chronosphere and iron courtain (and maybe tesla coil if you're picky). Both very late in game.
Now RA2 is... camouflaging tanks, laser towers, mind control, time-travelling psychics and whatever "cool" shit you may think of. It certainly is enjoyable and has an unique charm to it but after playing RA1 first it leaves a big "wat" feeling.

 

[MetalCraze]

We, uh, don't like mutants, so we're gonna kill everyone on the planet.

We, uh, don't like humans, so we're gonna vat everyone on the planet.

It has been several pages of explanations and you can't see a difference between master's and president's motivations? Are you fucking joking?

I think this is similar to Red Alert 1 vs 2. The first one seems "realistic" doesn't have any PEW PEW LAZERS units and the only sci-fi things in it are chronosphere and iron courtain (and maybe tesla coil if you're picky). Both very late in game.
Now RA2 is... camouflaging tanks, laser towers, mind control, time-travelling psychics and whatever "cool" shit you may think of. It certainly is enjoyable and has an unique charm to it but after playing RA1 first it leaves a big "wat" feeling.

No RA2 vs. RA3 is a better comparison. Both are similar at the first look in terms of sci-fi, but at the second look you see that RA2 is a parody of military stereotypes with characters looking like pumped up cliches and even normal sci fi stuff that you can find in usual sci fi books, while RA3 is more like some retarded anime piece of shit with armoured bears, mechas and samurais with jedi swords chopping up tanks (and other uh oh pop-culture stuff) where characters are trying to take the plot too seriously. That's exactly like F2 compares to F1.

 

[Secretninja]

When I got to Vault 15 and was told that I can't get any further because of the cave-in, my first thought was "Dynamite!". I tried it 4-5 times before I realized that it aint happening.

So did I. That's probably why I never had dynamite, never thought to use dynamite, and didn't notice I could use dynamite in the radscorpion cave.

 

[Black]

No RA2 vs. RA3 is a better comparison.

Maybe, never bothered with RA3.

 

[MetalCraze]

And actually FO1 was the disconnected theme-park:

Rat cave. Check.
Quiet peaceful village town. Check
Raider town. Check
A town made of junk. Check.
Trader town. Check.
Zombie town. Check.
Gang warfare town. Check.
Military town. Check.
Religion town. Check.

You're trying too hard.

 

[kris]

Fallout was a better experience
Fallout2 was a better game.

 

[Radisshu]

1eyedking wins this thread.

Yes, pretty much. Even though I do prefer Fallout 1, his arguing makes a lot more sense than VD's.

 

[Secretninja]

The inclusion of tribals was a nod to the imminent that the developers knew was imminent. At the rate things are going, the tribals will seem advanced very shortly.

 

[Carceri]

I found that the turn-based combat of Fallout was revolutionary.

Pffft, everybody knows isometric view and turn based are technological limitations. Seriously, ask Bethesda.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So, if someone prefers more good content (and F2 content IS good, it is probably just not THAT good) over less content that fits together almost perfectly, he will like F2 more. Big deal.
Therefore, saying which game is superior is almost impossible, since it always depends on what your standards are.

Yep. Low standards will usually pick quantity over quality.

The truth is that Fallout 2 content is NOT good. It's lulzy. There is a shitload of filler quests and filler combat. If you throw out the stupid shit, the game will be the size and the quality of Fallout 1. So since Fallout 2 = Fallout 1 + stupid shit + lulz, whether or not you prefer FO2 to FO1 is a question of your tolerance toward stupidity.

On that Fallout 1 timer thing:

It IS a bad game decision.
This is because, in the beginning of the game you have NO idea how long it will take you to get that chip. The only thing you can assume is that the time will be enough to do the main quest.

So, if you are new to the game, you can either go the safe way, or do some exploring (which is a HUGE part of what is fun about such games) and risk not being able to finish the game.
You can't blame anyone for doing exploration, since -as I said- this is what makes most of the fun for many people. And yes, that also includes running around mindlessly in the wastelands, just for getting some fun encounters.
And then, they run out time and the game says "goodbye". Wtf? You just spent days or even weeks playing the game and then you can't complete it? No, just no.
And why? Because you wanted to explore, because you wanted to have some fun with the game.
This is even worse than hidden savegame corruptions (like in ToEE).
Yeah, players complaining about that surely are idiots.

They surely are. Yes, you don't know how long things would take, so you start playing carefully and watch the clock. At some point you realize that you have plenty of times and relax. If you want to explore every square, it's a waste of time, because there is nothing there but random encounters. Even if you make a mistake and send water to your vault, thus reducing the time limit, even then you can complete the game without rushing through it.