Forgotten Realms vs. Greyhawk

[bussinrounds]

Anyway, it's not so much the setting, as much as it's the DM.

This.

Agreed.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I've never actually played the pre-created settings in PnP. My group always has the DM invent his/her own campaign setting. It takes a lot of work for the DM - usually a DM spends 2-3 months creating the campaign world, and then prepares a 'setting guide' with all the information that player characters would have as 'common knowledge' in the setting - i.e. a set of culture descriptions, histories, religions, conflicts, etc as well as things specific to that player's culture and communtity. Yes it's a lot of work, but it pays off in terms of campaign quality.

New DMs are encouraged to use historical or mythological settings as a starting point and then to branch out from there - e.g. (to take a recent example) the world as envisaged by the early (pre-golden age) ancient Greeks: boats are the main means of transport - hence swimming, profession: sailing and non-magical crafting are all vital party skills - with minotaurs, cyclops, powerful clerical cults, gods that are petty enough to hold personal vendettas against mortals, and a goddamn Kraaken that keeps assraping the party at sea because they've pissed off Poseidon. It sounds like more work than it is - the various monster manuals have stats for a fair chunk of the classical greek monsters, and it's very easy just to map stats onto the ones that aren't represented.

Obviously the more experienced DMs will create the settings from scratch, but old mythologies are a good crutch for those who don't have the experience but don't want to fall back upon the pre-made stuff.

 

[Morkar Left]

@Crispy

I think about the settings the same as you; FR is full with uberchars and Greyhawk seems more in line with consistency.

But I can highly recommend you the Birthright setting. Downlooad the 2ed books and get the official 3rd fanconversion for it. Basically it's converted for 3.5 too but not in a complete package. It shouldn't be hard to convert it to Pathfinder.

http://www.birthright.net/forums/downloads.php?s=ab92a3b7ae17012e4b5260c18f408dc9

Let your group play chars as normal adventures instead of a ruler. Maybe give them some (minor) bloodline to become rulers later.

BR is the setting with the most "european" flair with detailed provinces and politics plus enough place left out to fill it how you like.

 

[Storyfag]

Has anyone taken any interest in 4E Forgotten Realms ? From what I could read, the changes made to the setting were rather extravagant (on the plus side, the superpowered good NPCs seem to be either dead or depowered).

Took a passing interest. Was repulsed by the horrible and needles lore rape. Will stick to 3.5 lore.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Hey Crispy, you mention the overabundance of epic level mages in Forgotten Realms.

I know it is a stupid question, but do you mean overabundance of epic level mages in games such as the Neverwinter Nights series, or their overabundance in actual PnP games as well?

I ask, because PnPers often say that PnP sessions are more restrained than the typical computer game.

Forgotten Realms as both a PnP and CRPG setting is permeated with magic. Lots and lots of it. That results in many high-level and high-power characters throughout. They own shops, they rule kingdoms, and they explore every inch of the place (at least that's the impression I've gotten over the years of being a fan of FR). I don't like that.

Greyhawk, being originally designed by Gygax and his buddies, is decidedly low-magic. Sure, his own characters rose to the higher levels, but that should be expected and I think is earned (gotta give the old guy his due, rest his soul). But ramping down of experience and magic inflation is always a good thing in my view.

So yeah, it's everything with the Realms. The people are magical. The buildings are magical. The land itself has been largely formed with magic. Greyhawk and Oerth have more of a "natural" feel, and I think that's best.

I see your point. What is worth emphasising is that its pointless for new adventuring parties to come about, when there are level 20+ mages who should be pulling their weight and saving kingdoms. Instead, they sit in towers or sell scrolls in shops.

There are insta-kill spells in FR, and one expects only the rarest to be able to obtain such power. But no, there are probably thousands of mages with insta-kill spells and thousands of mages with spells to block insta-kill spells. Not to mention the multitudes of ressurectors. Even life and death becomes a triviliaty in such a setting. What, then, remains to be feared.

 

[King Crispy]

I guess one could also argue that the many forces of high power levels on the side of order are required to keep the amazingly varied and equally deadly evil denizens of the Underdark and so forth in check, kind of a Realms version of the Cold War.

Still, when things get to this point, as has been pointed out, the whole scenario begins to out-ridicule itself. It's sad because when FR was brand-new, it was so promising and fresh.

Just goes to show me, time after time, that the classics are those that are timeless, whereas fads and flashes in the pan like FR come and go.

 

[GarfunkeL]

What, then, remains to be feared

Plenty enough. There's ways to imprison/kill people so that they cannot be rescued/resurrected and you can always send folks off to different planes. FR is a setting where gods get killed off regularly enough. The good high-level NPCs don't sit in their towers but rush around the gargantuan world in-order to keep it still running and they cannot ever win because balance must be maintained, as Ao dictated.

 

[ElectricOtter]

Anyway, it's not so much the setting, as much as it's the DM.

This.

Agreed.

Thirded.

Although I will admit that the FR pantheon is far better than Greyhawk's.

 

[Storyfag]

Anyway, it's not so much the setting, as much as it's the DM.

This.

Agreed.

Thirded.

Although I will admit that the FR pantheon is far better than Greyhawk's.

You mean: was. Until 4th edition ruined it

 

[gromit]

Fixed this for you.

I once had a dream, involving dragon age 3 or mass effect 3 perhaps only passingly and tangentially, wherein the continued acceptance and rising commonality of gaming and device ownership (of all types) gradually began to encourage more diversity and niches within the market; thereafter Obsidian worked out the licensing and finances to create an Onyx-engine release of The Black Hound (which is Sawyer's baby, you tards.)

Furthermore, during its limited, largely story-building or player-initiated, combat, it plays like "DA:O done right," RTwP with an RT ruleset, the action falling into informal phases. Plug in a pad and it plays like "FFXII meets Witcher II" - slightly detached controls which provide the action-satisfaction while still retaining the feel of issuing commands.

I would also like a pony.

I just had an orgasm.

 

[ElectricOtter]

Anyway, it's not so much the setting, as much as it's the DM.

This.

Agreed.

Thirded.

Although I will admit that the FR pantheon is far better than Greyhawk's.

You mean: was. Until 4th edition ruined it

oh god don't remind me :negativeman:

 

[Hobo Elf]

Read a few FR books. Mostly shit, but there a few decent ones with some decent characters. Erevis Cale was p. cool. The rest were obvious power fantasy bullshit where the writers were living out their fetishes and fantasies through their character. Greenwood has some massive sexual frustration he should try to work out. Ravenloft is p. much the only setting I like to play PnP. I stay faaaar away from the rest. I mostly just play with DMs who make their own custom settings. Anything else is faggotry, but that's just me.

 

[Daemongar]

You mean: was. Until 4th edition ruined it

Was at a used bookstore and bought the 4th edition Forgotten Realms suppliment. Awful. Just awful. Lists of locales and the motivations of the people who live there? Trash, and worse, minutely detailed trash. Compared to earlier versions, just felt like nothing but uninteresting filler.

I am very partial to Greyhawk as there is a real sense of mystery and the unknown built into it. Seems FR is guilty of too much detail and information, too overloaded with useless spells, magic, and minutia. More of a victim of it's own success, I guess. My preference is the rare magic item approach.

On the other hand, hell, let me be the first to say Dragonlance. Meh, I can't do it.

 

[JagreenLern]

Forgotten Realms vs Greyhawk? Fuck that.

For me the real question is Dark Sun vs Planescape. I don't know if I could even answer.

And just out of curiousity, how have the Mind Flayers, my favorite D&D race, fared under the ravages of 4E?And do they have rules to let you play one yet?