FP Dungeon Crawlers, where to start?

[JarlFrank]

Might and Magic. It's the best for getting into the genre. Wizardry is a lot, lot LOT more complex and requires more thought to be put into character creation and levelling up. There's also tons of class combinations you can make, etc etc. If you absolutely want to start with Wiz, do it with 8, it's the easiest to get into.

I'd recommend starting with M&M where you can either create some chars or just take the starting party and go adventuring right away, it's really easy to get into and the perfect introduction to the subgenre. Be sure to have at least one wizard and one cleric in your party though.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

Hmm... I prefer turn based over real time. So it seems it comes down to Might 'n Magic 3 or Wizardry (8?). I'm leaning towards MM3 since Wizardry seems to require more knowledge of its systems from the get go.

Wiz8 is very easy to get into, and its graphics have aged very well. It's Wiz7 where we get into the sperg multiclass territory...

 

[SuicideBunny]

good challenge (the reason why I like roguelikes)

go play one of the old dreamforge dugeon crawlers like dungeon hack/ravenloft/menzoberranzan.

as far as psp crawlers go, class of heroes is utter shit. unchained blades is a much better choice, even if it has no custom characters.

 

[octavius]

Real time + blob = shit combat.

Well, one doesn't play them for the tactical combat, but if you have the willpower to avoid the two step cheating it's still better and more fun than some uninspired turn based games where two characters just whack at each other in turn. And games like DM and CSB does most of the other things better than comtemporary turn based game, like puzzles, interface, inventory system, sound, graphics and immersion.

I don't see why you'd ever want to play CSB without 2-stepping.

Because it's more fun and challenging if you don't do it unless you have to?
You can meet most enemies face to face and use various defensive spells or potions to reduce damage taken. By two-stepping the only class you improve is the Fighter class for your front row characters. By using a variety of spells, potions, items (Magic Boxes, Staff of Claws, Horn of Fear etc), melee weapons and missile weapons you increases all the classes, and get more rounded and powerful characters.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

Because it's more fun and challenging if you don't do it unless you have to?
You can meet most enemies face to face and use various defensive spells or potions to reduce damage taken. By two-stepping the only class you improve is the Fighter class for your front row characters. By using a variety of spells, potions, items (Magic Boxes, Staff of Claws, Horn of Fear etc), melee weapons and missile weapons you increases all the classes, and get more rounded and powerful characters.

Sounds like an oldie I really need to catch up on.

 

[Johannes]

Of course it's not even that useful most of the time, when you've got multiple enemies (ok then it's potentially useful but just more complex and challenging), a tight corridor, etc. But at the times when there's a single powerful enemy that you just simply can't get hit by more than once, I remember the Demonic Director being such a case for example. You could just bypass it (or not? don't remember) or use a paralyzing item too, sure, but well, I rather kill it and the georaphy makes it a bit tricky in any case.

It really seems to me that the game was developed with 2-step in mind, often it's useful, sometimes crucial but usually you can't purely rely on it. So I really don't see a reason to restrict myself, as movement to minimize enemy hits is still needed in one form or another.
It doesn't make the game easy, or even most combats easy, by any means.

 

[mondblut]

It really seems to me that the game was developed with 2-step in mind

If they didn't want the 2-step, they'd make enemies turn faster or even instantly. In many later RT blobbers, there is no such thing as "attacking from the flank", enemies always face you.

 

[Stabwound]

Guys, the oldest games that he mentions are Diablo and Fallout. The older crawlers (bar really pretty ones like AoD) might come off as a bit too hardcore. The Xeen games, Wizardry 7 and earlier required a newfag like me a LOT of readjustment in terms of pacing, interface, and such from the modern ones like Wiz 8.

I think Xeen (and MM3 to a slightly lesser extent) are very accessible, even compared to Wiz 7 and the like. But yeah, Wiz 8 is really the only modern turn-based blobber worth a damn.

I'd still recommend MM3 to a newbie, though.

 

[DraQ]

Well, one doesn't play them for the tactical combat

No, one plays them like RT FPP non-blobbers, except with QTE for an interface.

Ugh.

 

[damicore]

Emulate Dark Spire for the DS and give it a try, It's pretty fun but kind of meta-game oriented too, there are not many viable builds. Still easier than the first wizardries.
Also you could try SMT 1 and 2, if you can call them blobbers, for the snes. The fact that you can and HAVE to make different demons your minions, and that they don't level up so you have to keep fusing them and getting newer ones makes you rethink your party quite often. Although everything almost always boils down to sleep bullets or charm bullets, multi-taget hit weapons and skills on your demons so that's that.

 

[7h30n]

I wasn't expecting a story experience from a blobber and actually it is one of the reasons I got interested in them (coz I'm in the mood for something that doesn't require from me to follow its story).
Since I've been away past days I tried Class of Heroes and Unchained Blades. CoH seems more complicated while UB nicy introduces mechanics. Oh and Nobuo Umatsu had some fingers in UB's music.

Rereading the thread helped me decide: I'll be playing Might n Magic 3 when I get back home (until then UB). Anything I need to be extra careful about? I guess standard RPG party (cleric, thief, some fighters and mages) should work?

 

[octavius]

Rereading the thread helped me decide: I'll be playing Might n Magic 3 when I get back home (until then UB). Anything I need to be extra careful about? I guess standard RPG party (cleric, thief, some fighters and mages) should work?

The pregenerated party is a balanced party and works well. They have good stats and come equipped with weapons and armour. MM3 is more forgiving than MM1 and 2, though, so just about any party will work. Barbarians are the best fighters in my experience.

Be careful about unnatural aging. If your characters grow too old they will die in their sleep. I actually screwed up my first game of MM3 this way.

There are lots of interesting stuff to find on the overland map. Be sure to map every square and write down or make screen caps (CTRL-F5 with DOS Box) of all interesting messages and locations of various wells and teleporters.

 

[felipepepe]

Be careful about unnatural aging. If your characters grow too old they will die in their sleep. I actually screwed up my first game of MM3 this way.

Ah, you spoiled all the fun...this is the kind of butthurt every codexer should go throught on their RPG journey.

 

[octavius]

Be careful about unnatural aging. If your characters grow too old they will die in their sleep. I actually screwed up my first game of MM3 this way.

Ah, you spoiled all the fun...this is the kind of butthurt every codexer should go throught on their RPG journey.

I'm just too nice.

 

[Gozma]

The Dungeon Master games are basically action, especially DM2 where you are explicitly chasing running enemies and shit like that.

The EoB games are balanced to be played just going toe-to-toe and slowly hammering stuff, even on a first playthrough. Although I think in EoB2 there is some stuff that you are supposed to dodge.

 

[Flanged]

Anvil of Dawn is so pure and lovely. It still represents the genre very well.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'd note that once you get to level ~15 or so, everyone's fighting ability is pretty similar. The main differences are attacks/round, and spellcasting. HP totals only matter until you've gotten everyone's endurance boosted up. Equipment types and starting skills are mostly irrelevant (though it will irk you to find some awesome armor/weapon that nobody in the party can wear, so I recommend having at least one knight, or a paladin and a ninja.)

 

[Math Fool]

Might and Magic VI is my favorite of the series and the easiest for a new player to get used to. It's certainly much easier than any of the Wizardry games.

 

[Gozma]

The problem with recommending MM6 or 7 is that they are among the most heart-stoppingly ugly games ever created from a seriously mistaken era of graphics

 

[Mother Russia]

Play Grimrock first. Yeah it's real time, but really well done real time.

Then play turnbased ones.

 

[Fowyr]

The problem with recommending MM6 or 7 is that they are among the most heart-stoppingly ugly games ever created from a seriously mistaken era of graphics

But... but M&M6 cute as kitten!

Also octavius pretty nailed it. Just choose, what sub-genre you want to try first. DM-clones or TB blobber CRPGs.

 

[tuluse]

Cool thread you have here.

I'm going to follow suit and give M&M3 a try 7h30n

Spoiler

 

[Invictus]

Great first choice Tuluse, M&M3 happens to be my favorite of that series and its is a great introduction; the graphics hold up surprisingly well, the interface and systems are very user firendly and above all it is FUN
You couldn't have picked better, and when you want somehting more hardcore you should try Wizardry 6 or try Stonekeep or Ultima Underworld

 

[Magellan]

Great first choice Tuluse, M&M3 happens to be my favorite of that series and its is a great introduction; the graphics hold up surprisingly well, the interface and systems are very user firendly and above all it is FUN
You couldn't have picked better, and when you want somehting more hardcore you should try Wizardry 6 or try Stonekeep or Ultima Underworld

You're 100% right Invictus, M&M3's graphics hold up incredibly well! 3 and 4/5 are tied in my mind as the best in the series.

Regarding Stonekeep though, I thought it was pretty much shit (though, in fairness I first played it years after release). Am I missing something that made that game good?

 

[Jaesun]

Stonekeep is considered "classic" because it is old..... not that it was any good.