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Frayed Knights: The Skull of S'makh-Daon - parodic fantasy turn-based blobber

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
@asper, Darth Roxor:

Guess I should've elaborated further. It's not about how poor/outdated they are, it's about how they click together. I wasn't bashing FK per se, I was just sayin' that it's not my cup of tea. Like I said in the other thread, cartoonish portraits + simplistic UI + neat&sterile 3D graphics don't mix in my eyes.

I wasn't trying too hard, I wasn't trying at all, just admitting that I've got my own quirks and prejudices and that I did not try the game for purely subjective reasons - in response to the OP's question/suggestion.
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
6,000
cboyardee said:
Life of D. Duck 2

I'm pretty sure this bjornar b fellow was featured on something awful really long ago by lowtax, who raved about his genius
I recognised RK47's picture by him immediately because his style is very memorable and makes swaggletooth a wholly insufficient term
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
BonziBUDDY said:
Ok, when Dragon Age Origins comes out everyone is all over it. Multiple threads at least 20 pages long are made, and lots of derping is to be had. Everyone plays it, most beat it.

Rinse and repeat with DX/Mass Effect/New Vegas.

But when finally an indie rpg comes out which has JUST the kind of combat the codex claims it prefers, turnbased, only one measly thread is made, and doesn't go past the first page or two?

WTF????

This is a 1st person blobber. It's turnbased. It's got detailed character advancement options and lots of spells. Combat is hard.

So why aren't you all over it Codex? Is it because yout actually care for this sort of game and claim that you, bullshitting just to appear cool? You freely give your money to the AAA devs but don't support the dev making the games you like??

WTF??

Sure Frayed Knights has issues. It doesn't have char gen (big sin I agree). It's got humor.

But those things are minor compared to what it gets right.

So why aren't you supporting the dev? Buy the game, even if you don't play it.
I'm a NMA refugee. I don't do blobbers.

sgc_meltdown said:
RK47 said:
I think most people enjoyed C&C more than deep combat system.

as a pre-codex existance guy (vault13) rest assured that this arose as a result of bg2 having fuck all c&c and nonlinearity compared to fallout and having more of the gaming community slobber over it and say it was the rpg genre's golden baby

therefore, early codex championed fallout and its c&c as an example of 'how to into rpgs, you plebian bastards'

I will leave the issue of fallout combat versus bg2 combat not entering into the equation here as an exercise for the audience
Someone who actually felt that way back then :salute: .

sgc_meltdown said:
RK47 said:
Well put, meltdown.

thanks rk47 baby

I have to add though that early codex was also tempered with the silly infantile notion that rpgs 'in general' would likely get better from fallout1 or at least the sequel onwards
you know, improved systems, bigger game world, maybe destructable environments, higher resolution 2d sprites, perhaps a 3D engine still in isometric view that would have true 3D ballistics and shrapnel effects, vague evolutionary stuff

so the focus was on sheparding hopefuls into the right direction for the next push, to be determined once we get them to listen, them being whoever looked remotely pliable

as opposed to 'what is the perfect rpg' high concept theorising that we have wrought so successfully in recent times much like how junkies go into their inner happy place when they can't get their fix

of course I say 'we', when that just meant whoever wasn't scared of by the purist talk from the bad fun-hating people and registered to post alongside roshambo
[anime nostalgic scene mode]Roshambo...
I wonder what he's doing nowadays... He haven't posted here or on NMA for so long...
I'm glad that I was posting on NMA in his times. To be able to see him arguing... Back then...
I think it was one of my most important online encounters and had huge influence on me.[/anime nostalgic scene mode]

Funny thing. I entered an argument with our ethics teacher recently. It was so fucking weird to tell someone that he's using a strawman argument and be told back that such arguments are good because they help winning discussions. It felt really weird to be not able to rip into him and call him a troll and a liar :x .
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
6,000
Awor Szurkrarz said:
[anime nostalgic scene mode]Roshambo...
oh yeah, he's very cuddly once you get to know him.was usually very busy though
played co-op D2 with him once with proverbius, I think he used the druid with bear form

told back that such arguments are good because they help winning discussions
an ethics teacher with no integrity in his arguments, that's swell
should have tastefully raped him
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
sgc_meltdown said:
Awor Szurkrarz said:
[anime nostalgic scene mode]Roshambo...
oh yeah, he's very cuddly once you get to know him.was usually very busy though
played co-op D2 with him once with proverbius, I think he used the druid with bear form
Very busy writing walls of text on NMA and the Codex :D ?

sgc_meltdown said:
told back that such arguments are good because they help winning discussions
an ethics teacher with no integrity in his arguments, that's swell
should have tastefully raped him
I have spent 8 hours yesterday writing a wall of text rebuttal to his points, including that one. It was pretty exhausting though and without ability to end the whole stuff with insulting the opponent, wishing him death, etc. if everything will go wrong, it's simply not worth it, so I wrote him to not reply as I will delete his email without reading.
I think the kind of behaviours that are typical for the Codex/old NMA - people jumping at each other's throats and strong peer pressure for disciplined, precise arguments are the thing that makes more in-depth discussion possible without faster exhaustion of opponents and thus various issues not getting examined with sufficient depth and truth remaining uncovered.

I used to be butthurt about lack of ethics lesson in school and having to wait-out religion lessons, but fuck, ethics lessons are even worse than religion. Without proper mental discipline, it's fucking worthless as it turns into a logical fallacy fest. And without some kind of a safety valve, issues aren't discussed with proper depth.
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
6,000
Awor Szurkrarz said:
Very busy writing walls of text on NMA and the Codex :D ?
well he certainly said more on the forums than he did on IM


I think the kind of behaviours that are typical for the Codex/old NMA - people jumping at each other's throats and strong peer pressure for disciplined, precise arguments are the thing that makes more in-depth discussion possible without faster exhaustion of opponents and thus various issues not getting examined with sufficient depth and truth remaining uncovered.

like natural selection for arguments with members being the environment
I like it because if you really do have a strong honest opinion or argument for something anyone flaming you is a good exercise and opportunity in testing the robustness and coherency of your viewpoint

I'm p. sure our VD got his quote battle tactics from roshambo too
well he doesn't say strawman or use that jack and shit joke as much but you get the point
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
DL'ed the Demo.
Was pretty sceptical, because I prefer serious games and never was that big a fan of blob-games (can tolerate it though, if the rest of the game is good enough).

Have been pleasently surprised. Graphics are for the most part good enough and providing a nice old-school vibe, however the engine is much better at indoor scenes than outdoor.
Rule system seems somewhat complex and interesting.
Of course, it takes an satirical approach to the genre, so I can uderstand if that drives some people away.

Still, I might buy it eventually, if it gets a bit cheaper (say 15 € or so)...
 

Angelo85

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Deutschland
I played through the demo now as well.

My pro and contra list with no particular order of topics:

What I didn't like:
- Inconsistent art style in the texture work as well as in portraits
- Music occasionally doesn't fit the mood
- Like with the music, some of the sound effects don't seem to fit or are lacking (not hearing footsteps made me personally feel like a ghost floating around)
- The humorous writing wasn't my cup of tea (this is just me personally of course, I am sure others do enjoy the type of humor that this game offers)
- The UI takes up too much of the screenspace in fullscreen mode with my 1680x1050 resolution
- Vital information is partially only accessible by digging through various submenus (for example the cost and damage of a spell/enhanced spell, or comparing items)
- Generally some information is only accessible by digging through various submenus that should be easily accessible (for example why can't I have an option to display health and energy numerical directly on the UI instead of just vague bars? I can view the numbers by clicking on a portrait, this means the developer is OK with the player knowing the exact numbers)
- The lack of creating a party yourself from scratch
- The overall feel of the controls and navigation of menus feels a bit clunky to me personally
- No difficulty modifiers/levels

What I did like:
+ Monster journal that gives you detailed informations about the enemies (also it's done gradually - the more you slay of one type of enemy, the more you learn about it. There is also a spell to 'analyse' an enemy and gain access to everything at once)
+ Ingame encyclopedia with detailed informations about core mechanics, feats, spells and everything
+ The already in this thread discussed Drama-Star system
+ Ingame maps that look like they were drawn by the adventuring party themselves
+ Turnbased combat that offers you many varied options
+ Possiblity to develop the characters in many different directions (somewhat - but not fully - redeems for the negative point of not beeing able to create your own party from scratch)
++ The inclusion of party banter and varied descriptions of things you encounter ingame e.g. not every crate that you click on gives you the same text (even though the nature of the humor is - like I stated in the negative points - not to my personal taste, this + is a really strong point)
+ Many different spells, feats and skills
+ The resting mechanic. You can rest anywhere but some areas are safer than others (e.g. you get a lower percentage of beeing disturbed - through the way of an encounter - while resting in more secluded places).
++ The energy bar, which is used for spells and combat abilities both (so basically Mana and Stamina mixed together). The maximum energy is temporarily lowered the more you use your special abilites and spells.
From what I gathered in the Demo, the only way to lift the temporary lost maximum energy is by getting 'real rest' in towns.

As I played only the Demo I can't say much in the ways of dungeon design, encounter design, enemy variety or plot.

My final verdict: Even though my love for turnbased combat is strong and what I saw of the game was more on the 'me likey' side of the scale, I personally will throw my money at Grimrock (Codex Thread)
Also not beeing able to get the information you desire in an easy (as in with the least mouse clicks possible) fashion turned me off from Frayed Knights quite a bit because this is something that you will do countless times during a playthrough of the full game and I can see this potentially getting much on your nerves down the road.
 

BLOBERT

FUCKING SLAYINGN IT BROS
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Codex 2012
BRO I POST IN REAL GAME THREADS AND TRY TO CONTRIBUTE JUST NOT INTERESTED IN BLOB DUNGEON CRAWLERS AND THE STYLE TURNED ME OFF

I APPRECIATE SHIT LIKE THIS THOUGH IF IT WERENT FOR THREADS LIKE THIS I WOULD HAVE NEVER FOUND KOTC
 

BLOBERT

FUCKING SLAYINGN IT BROS
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Codex 2012
BROS I HAVE ALSO POSTED BEFORE THAT THE BIGGEST THING I DISLIKE ABOUT THE CODEX IS THAT NEGATIVE CONTENT OTWEIGHS POSITIVE AND MOST OF THE PROLIFIC POSTERS DONT ADD POSITIVE CONTENT

BROS I ALWAYS TRY TO POST ABOUT COOL OLD GAMES OR INDIE SHIT I LIKED
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Angelo85 said:
I played through the demo now as well...

I can agree with most of what Angelo85 said, although I can't comment on the sound/music so far as I played with my headphones off, I'll replay the demo later, though, this time with sound.
Another thing I didn't quite like about the interface is that e.g. if you want to look at an item in a list, say an entry for one of the monsters, you have to first select the item and then click a button at the bottom of the window. It would be much more convenient if I could just doubleclick. Well, maybe I missed something about that.

I also liked that the drama stars don't get saved, which is a nice way to discourage excessive reload (a bit).

So as I said, I might buy it if it gets a little bit cheaper. They said they are looking into different digital distribution platforms, so maybe it will be on Steam or Impulse eventually.
 
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Awor Szurkrarz said:
Funny thing. I entered an argument with our ethics teacher recently. It was so fucking weird to tell someone that he's using a strawman argument and be told back that such arguments are good because they help winning discussions. It felt really weird to be not able to rip into him and call him a troll and a liar :x .

Sorry, kind of off-topic, but WHAT THE FUCK!!! You have no idea how badly I am raging right now. Is this guy an actual philosopher of ethics (or something similar, where you'd expect him to know what a fucking strawman argument is?). Even if he isn't - even if he is just some guy teaching an ethics course at the end of a vocational degree, or some highschool teacher, he's putting himself forward as an ETHICS teacher, and he's advocating argumentative point-scoring over actual constructive critique (to which straw men arguments contribute nothing)?


FUCK.

There's a part of me that so strongly wants to break my rule of never identifying myself online, just so I could offer to actually take this up with the guy, either as one academic to another, or (if he's some self-styled charlatan) to contact his employers and explain how the guy has just done the equivalent of a biology teacher insisting that animals breath carbon dioxide and convert it to oxygen.

Tell you what, not sure if this will help, but a text that I use for my first year students that covers the basics of philosophical argument, including the fallacies (such as the strawman fallacy) is Govier, 'A Practical Study of Argument' - lots of uni libraries will stock it. Otherwise, there's almost certainly going to be something in The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy online (google it - it's like wikipedia for Philosophy, but unlike wikipedia it is fully sourced and references, and written by authors who range from being 'signficant' to 'leading' authors in the subfield that they are writing on. You could probably find a decent piece if you just search the SEP for 'strawman fallacy', but it covers all areas - ethics, meta-ethics, epistemology, ontology, formal logic, and I find its ethics articles really useful as overviews (I'm usually using them as a stepping stone to find more substantial works, but it absolutely has everything you'd need to put an Ethics teacher in his place if he's as clueless as he sounds).
 

BonziBUDDY

Scholar
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Feb 10, 2009
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Cyrodiil
Azrael, could you post on topic please? Have you played Frayed Knights? If not, download the demo and play it.
 

Mangoose

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BonziBUDDY said:
ad_plant.png
 

Black Cat

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Skyrim .///.
BonziBUDDY said:
Azrael, could you post on topic please? Have you played Frayed Knights? If not, download the demo and play it.

I'm starting to suspect this guy's the developer or somethingie like that. Really, post on topic or shut up? Where do you think you are, Bioware social network? :/
 

Gragt

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Don't think that, my dear dark kitty, because the Rampant Coyote is a fine chap who doesn't share that kind of despicable behaviour Bonzibuddy is guilty off. Given his nickname, I assume the sod identifies himself with some horrible but deceptively inocuous spam machine.
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
Azrael the cat said:
Awor Szurkrarz said:
Funny thing. I entered an argument with our ethics teacher recently. It was so fucking weird to tell someone that he's using a strawman argument and be told back that such arguments are good because they help winning discussions. It felt really weird to be not able to rip into him and call him a troll and a liar :x .

Sorry, kind of off-topic, but WHAT THE FUCK!!! You have no idea how badly I am raging right now. Is this guy an actual philosopher of ethics (or something similar, where you'd expect him to know what a fucking strawman argument is?). Even if he isn't - even if he is just some guy teaching an ethics course at the end of a vocational degree, or some highschool teacher, he's putting himself forward as an ETHICS teacher, and he's advocating argumentative point-scoring over actual constructive critique (to which straw men arguments contribute nothing)?


FUCK.
He's a fucking programmer. He said he started teaching ethics because he likes starting new things that he doesn't know much about. I'm glad that I won't have to see him during the next week.

Azrael the cat said:
There's a part of me that so strongly wants to break my rule of never identifying myself online, just so I could offer to actually take this up with the guy, either as one academic to another, or (if he's some self-styled charlatan) to contact his employers and explain how the guy has just done the equivalent of a biology teacher insisting that animals breath carbon dioxide and convert it to oxygen.

Tell you what, not sure if this will help, but a text that I use for my first year students that covers the basics of philosophical argument, including the fallacies (such as the strawman fallacy) is Govier, 'A Practical Study of Argument' - lots of uni libraries will stock it. Otherwise, there's almost certainly going to be something in The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy online (google it - it's like wikipedia for Philosophy, but unlike wikipedia it is fully sourced and references, and written by authors who range from being 'signficant' to 'leading' authors in the subfield that they are writing on. You could probably find a decent piece if you just search the SEP for 'strawman fallacy', but it covers all areas - ethics, meta-ethics, epistemology, ontology, formal logic, and I find its ethics articles really useful as overviews (I'm usually using them as a stepping stone to find more substantial works, but it absolutely has everything you'd need to put an Ethics teacher in his place if he's as clueless as he sounds).
The main problem is that I don't really want to get into discussions about ethics as it tends to make me spend a lot of time thinking about that stuff. For example, I had difficulty focusing on lessons yesterday because I was thinking about all that stuff.
I just want to forget, not be constantly given new ethical problems to think of, to think about. It's too time consuming, too exhausting. I don't think ethics and religion should be a mandatory part of curriculum. It's a fucking torture.
 
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Awor Szurkrarz said:
Funny thing. I entered an argument with our ethics teacher recently. It was so fucking weird to tell someone that he's using a strawman argument and be told back that such arguments are good because they help winning discussions. It felt really weird to be not able to rip into him and call him a troll and a liar :x .

But...he's right. They DO help you win discussions. A dishonest victory is still a victory.

Awor Szurkrarz said:
I have spent 8 hours yesterday writing a wall of text rebuttal to his points, including that one. It was pretty exhausting though and without ability to end the whole stuff with insulting the opponent, wishing him death, etc. if everything will go wrong, it's simply not worth it, so I wrote him to not reply as I will delete his email without reading.

4460134178_102779e9cf.jpg
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
BonziBUDDY said:
Azrael, could you post on topic please? Have you played Frayed Knights? If not, download the demo and play it.

:lol:
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
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Messages
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Codex 2012
Clockwork Knight said:
Awor Szurkrarz said:
Funny thing. I entered an argument with our ethics teacher recently. It was so fucking weird to tell someone that he's using a strawman argument and be told back that such arguments are good because they help winning discussions. It felt really weird to be not able to rip into him and call him a troll and a liar :x .

But...he's right. They DO help you win discussions. A dishonest victory is still a victory.
Victory in discussion by itself is pretty worthless, though.
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Azrael the cat exposed himself as a professor.

Bring out the iron maiden.
 

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