Volourn said:
Saint, sorry, but alignment in D&D is not as strict as you think. Read the rules. It states alignment is a TOOL; not a straitjacket. When you sleect your alignment at character creation (oops... in TOEE; it's party alignment), you are not glued to it for the rest of your life. Anyone who thinks so misses the entire point of D&D alignment.
Actually, you're free to choose the alignment of your characters, and I'm pretty sure that's the alignment field that the dialogue flags use.
Also, when it says that, it doesn't mean that a Lawful Good guy can't be bad every now and then, and he might break the law occationally.. It's just very rare that someone of that alignment would do either. And, in ToEE, you are given moral choices for any alignment, just not as much.
Moral choices in NWN? I can name more than one, and I'll do just that. How 'bout the judgment call the player has to make in the castles where the brothers sacrificed the chidlren to the demon? Moral call.
Moral call? More like a stupidity check. When you have a diety that's suspended time in an area, which is a pretty good example of how powerful it is, doing anything half-assed with that would be utterly stupid. And the choice of who the bad guy is, the Lich or the brother with the guilty conscience, GOSH! There's a tough one! I wonder who'd be the lying one!
Or, how about the mother who asks you to find out what happened to your misisng chidlen, and when you find out you noticed they have been slaughtered, and turned into chidlren? Then you have the moral call of either telling her the truth and breaking her heart which leads her to throw her life away by running right into a pack of muggers, OR lying and saying they are life; but not rescued yet. Hmm..
Wasn't this in the expansion pack?
Case closed. NWN has moral dilemmas. Heck, you even praised the judgement quest for being a solid moral choice. Are you suddenly changing your mind?
You misread. I said it was a
neat idea that was horribly botched by BioWare, turning something that could have been an interesting idea in to just another combat zone where the judgement is ultimately meaningless. After all, the diety already knows exactly what happens, so why even bother having someone sit in judgement? Also, selecting a judge based on how well they can smack down some monsters is pretty damned stupid too. There shouldn't have been any combat in that area, nor should the deity have known exactly what the circumstances were.
About the only DECENT moral choice in NWN is the murder trial in Act 3. That was nicely done. The rest of them are utter shit, and poorly balanced. The deal with the demon thing in Helm's temple in Act 1 was ludicrious as well, since making a deal with the demon only has minor alignment slippage and there's no other consequence to it. In return, you get a kick ass magic item. This as opposed to rebuking and casting down the demon, which means a couple of undead monsters get zapped by Helm for you.
There are no real morale choices in TOEE. The closest one is when you can buy the salve and let her go, or enslave her. That's pretty much it, and that's pretty much down to your alignment - if you are good; you set her free; if evil; enslave (in most cases0, and neutral who knows; but not realy a tough moral choice.
There are plenty of them in Nulb and the Temple. There's even a few in Hommlet. Here's a few not mentioned by others:
In Hommlet, there's one case where the miller doesn't approve of his assistant converting to Old Faith, but you can lie to the assistant and say it's cool. You can scare off Black Jay. If your party is Neutral Evil, you can go tell Terjon that you killed his acolyte and burned down his old church.
In Nulb, you can also buy Bertram, which is kin to slavery. You can bribe Sammy, who is Otis' apprentice, in to telling you where Otis' secret stash of good items is. You can tell the Hostel owner how you think that the temple should have won that battle with the forces of good, and he'll tell you how to hook up with the temple forces.
In the temple.. Well.. There's dozens of them, especially when dealing with node quests. You can work a bit for one temple, then betray them and work a bit for another. You can assassinate leaders of other nodes and make it look like another node leader did it.
Given this game is a dungeon crawler, it has a hell of a lot of moral choices, definitely the case when you consider that most dungeon crawlers don't have choices at all.
And, here we go again - bliaming the bugs on the players. *yawn* The same thing happened in NWN. Face it, there are TONS of bugs in TOEE. Do you think there is some conspiracy against TOEE, or something? Almost every review has stated quite clearly that TOEE is very buggy and the like. I guess BIO paid them off to diss the game. *yawn*
Hello,
Captain Missed-The-Point. My point was that ToEE and NWN both had numerous bugs about NWN mechanics. In fact, that's where most of the ToEE bugs lie, in the D&D mechanics. So, obviously there's a huge reviewer tilt when he proclaims ToEE to get a
3 out of 10 score for bugs when NWN gets a
8 out of 10.
