Games are not art

[toro]

When you watch a play or a movie, when you read a book, when you listen to music or look at a painting, you are a passive observer. You aren't interacting with the art in any way. Not so with games.
Games are made up of various artforms, but games themselves will never be art. They can't be, by definition.

The only absolute I know is that your mom will never be a virgin again. But I'm not sure about games.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

In time definition of "art" can change.

Sure in the same way that the definition of "man" and "woman" can change in time but, it's still wrong.

 

[Darkozric]

Both Myst and Riven are important historical works in building a bridge between videogames and the arts.
There are a number of reasons that they stand apart from other games.
One of the reasons that it is of great importance, is social - the team responsible for creating the work had a vast vision of the potential of videogames engaging with a broad cultural audience.
To the creators, this especially meant developing methods of interactions with videogames that didn't rely on hand-eye coordination,
as well as an artistic model that presumed a great degree of agency and intellectual autonomy to parse these swaths of digitally imagined myth and history like a literary work.
The second major point of interest is that these games are essentially long exquisitely beautiful explorations of how we as players use the many facets of our perception,
to assemble meaning from the shifting multiplicity of perspective in interactive computer-rendered created spaces, places, and objects.
In this manner, there are clear linkages between Riven and many contemporary arts practices, such as earthworks, installation, site-specific sculpture, etc.

Why do you think Cyan released so many versions of Myst? The decision shows a remarkable confidence;
Did Cyan really expect any of the million of people who have bought Myst to throw more money for a game whose puzzles they've already solved?
If Cyan considered Myst to be essentially just a game, of course, they wouldn't. But they knew that to the people who fell in love with Myst, it's more than a series of brain twisters, it's more than a game.
It's a place, a favorite place, and therefore not exhaustible the way a mere game is. You can't help wanting to see more of it, and at the same time you know that its mysteries will never be entirely yielded up.
And that, is a pretty good definition of art in games.
For me, Riven will always be the closest example of artistic expression in games.
Games can be art, and you don't have to be a passive faggot. You have to solve it, but who am I kidding, most deniers here couldn't solve shit even with a walkthrough shoved up their arse.

 

[Jaedar]

"Art" is a category, and outside of very specific fields, arguing about category definitions is stupid, because there's always going to be edge cases, extreme edge cases, and central examples.

Art is even worse than most categories, because getting art status means you are prestigious and respected and can get government gibs, so it becomes a 0 sum game where accepting games as art instantly makes all other artforms less prestigious and less likely to get gibs.

I will however, make the following assertions:
Games are artifacts that require a lot of specialized skill to produce.
Games are capable of producing certain emotional reactions in a way movies/books/paintings can't.
Games are cultural touchstones, especially in certain circles (eg you can get a lot of credibility as a software engineer if you make doom run on something interesting).

 

[Alex]

(...)
Games are capable of producing certain emotional reactions in a way movies/books/paintings can't.
(...)

 

[Häyhä]

In time definition of "art" can change.

Sure in the same way that the definition of "man" and "woman" can change in time but, it's still wrong.

Definition of what is considered "art" has changed as long as the concept of "art" has existed, where as "man" and "woman" are quite eternal and immutable as they are easily defined, concrete, physical things (defective mutants excluded). I'm sure a lot of people were of the opinion that film would never be considered "art" back in the 1800s, especially in the established art circles.

 

[Jaedar]

(...)
Games are capable of producing certain emotional reactions in a way movies/books/paintings can't.
(...)

I'm glad you agree!

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Games can contain art. But that doesn't make the game itself art.

Even if one were to disregard games where the more artistic elements, such as graphics and music, are essentially separate from the game elements, there would also be a smaller portion of games that are atmospheric or gesamtkunstwerks, with the various components inseparable from each other, such as Another World (1991) and its descendants Ico (2001) and Shadow of the Colossus (2005):

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Because within the classical division of art into the seven forms, architecture, sculpture, painting, music, literature, theater and dance and film, there is the artist who creates and the viewer who is always a passive observer.

The irony here being the fact that "classical" definition of art you're going by, wasn't the definition people in classical periods of histoy believed and in fact that definition primarly arised in the Enlightenment

 

[Ezekiel]

"Personally I don't think that way. We're making a game to entertain people. Sometimes my personality and my team's might be reflected on the game, and it might look like art, but it is a game to entertain people. That kind of feedback is welcome but it's not what I'm trying to achieve."

 

[JarlFrank]

Because within the classical division of art into the seven forms, architecture, sculpture, painting, music, literature, theater and dance and film, there is the artist who creates and the viewer who is always a passive observer.

The irony here being the fact that "classical" definition of art you're going by, wasn't the definition people in classical periods of histoy believed and in fact that definition primarly arised in the Enlightenment

also
>architecture
>it's only passively beheld
yeah lmao I'm sure buildings are made to just be looked at, not used

Ancient temples with their pillars, or medieval gothic cathedrals with their stained glass windows - just made to look at, not to serve for religious gatherings!
Theaters and opera halls - just made to look at, not to sit in and watch a performance!
Roads - just there to be looked at, don't you fucking dare interact with the road by putting your feet on it!!

 

[pOcHa]

"Personally I don't think that way. We're making a game to entertain people. Sometimes my personality and my team's might be reflected on the game, and it might look like art, but it is a game to entertain people. That kind of feedback is welcome but it's not what I'm trying to achieve."

didn't you hear, the author is dead, who the fuck cares what that fucker thinks

 

[Valestein]

I don't give a fuck if vidya are art or not, as long i'm enjoying myself blasting demons in Doom or pwning scrubs in R6: Siege it's all good.

 

[Rövtomte]

Who gives a shit. We play games to escape reality and find enjoyment, not to squabble about wether the length of Abby's penis in Last of us 2 went in her bf first or his in her.

 

[Gahbreeil]

My thoughts when "video games are not art".

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Entertainment value is also a quality that's been associated with art for millennia

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Because within the classical division of art into the seven forms, architecture, sculpture, painting, music, literature, theater and dance and film, there is the artist who creates and the viewer who is always a passive observer.

The irony here being the fact that "classical" definition of art you're going by, wasn't the definition people in classical periods of histoy believed and in fact that definition primarly arised in the Enlightenment

also
>architecture
>it's only passively beheld
yeah lmao I'm sure buildings are made to just be looked at, not used

Yeah and during the latter part of the middle ages and most of the renaissance, architecture was the most prestigious artform and the one closest to the "classical" conception of art
Painters, sculpturists, musicians and actors were essentially specialised workers - they either travelled from town to town peddling their services, or if they were lucky had a permanent workshops in some city with patrons to commission works

 

[luj1]

Games are made up of various artforms, but games themselves will never be art.

One of the most retarded sentences I have ever read.

 

[luj1]

So this chess table, is made up of various art, but itself WILL NEVER BE ART

fucking hell

 

[anvi]

Is that good? I never played.

 

[luj1]

In time definition of "art" can change.

Sure in the same way that the definition of "man" and "woman" can change in time but, it's still wrong.

That's exactly the problem. People trying to make everything political nowadays. You hear fucking Sawyer say, uhhh, if Wizardry was made today, it would not be an RPG uhh. No bro, we don't have to reinvent *everything*. Jesus Christ.

 

[luj1]

Is that good? I never played.

Undying (2001)

I liked that it had casting spells with one hand, firing weapons with the other (at the same time). Haven't seen another FPS do that. It had some interesting spells too like those skulls which you summon from the ground (?) and use as missiles.

 

[anvi]

Is that good? I never played.

Undying (2001)

I liked that it had casting spells with one hand, firing weapons with the other at the same time. Haven't seen another FPS do that since. Had some interesting spells too like those skulls which you summon from the ground (?) and use as missiles.

There should be more games like that.

 

[luj1]

There was also this cool scythe which could instakill monsters and steal health from them.

 

[Darkozric]

The second half isn't as strong as the first imo, but it is still a great game with an unforgettable theme.