Games you're buying this month?

[Solohk]

Well, if you're going to stick to a fixed top-down isometric camera it's hard to beat 2D. But the second you want to move that camera...

 

[Mareus]

Isn't it obvious why? Those screen shots clearly prove how 3D is inferior when it comes to gameplay and even graphics. I am not saying 3D games are unplayable, but why give up 2D. For once I would like to hear an honest answer from a dev.

3D is not inferior when it comes to gameplay and graphics. That's very subjective. I certainly don't believe that, even if I do appreciate the art in 2D games, and realise that certain 3D games look 'worse' than 2D games.

But when a 3D game looks good, it damn looks good.

As I said, I really feel that 3D is actually a progression over 2D - when done correctly. But in the end they are both different game designs, games can be fun/exciting/deep/use any word you want, both in 2D and 3D.

Oh I completely agree with you in everything, especially in the fact that games can be fun both in 2D and 3D and that it's the execution that counts. Still, no one can deny that most 3D games have problems with it's camera and that no 3D party based game has ever achieved the game play of it's 2D predecessors. Even after 10 years! You can say what you want, but that is not a subjective opinion.

 

[Caveman]

MLMarkland :arrow: ML Mark land :arrow: Mark land :arrow: land Mark :arrow: Cleve land Mark :arrow: Cleveland Mark Blakemore


Oh no! :hiding:

 

[MLMarkland]

Ok, thanks for the answer. I don't agree, but at least you were decent enough to answer me. There are other ways you can create those screenshots. Once people used cinematics you know. And all of the screenshots I showed were done in mid action. But never mind.

PS. If you can, please cut down on the shiny spell effects. They are annoying.

I'm not a huge fan of the shiny spell fx either -- but that's an execution thing and not really dependent on the 2D or 3D-ness of a game. Artists will have to consider things like this in any game with real-time lighting.

There's also nothing that really prevents the look of a 2D game from being fully re-produced in a 3D game. The main constraint is that once you start going 3D you start adding new requirements that take up time and money. It takes less time and money to animate sprites than it does to animate fully-articulated, 3-dimensional characters, for example.

MLMarkland :arrow: ML Mark land :arrow: Mark land :arrow: land Mark :arrow: Cleve land Mark :arrow: Cleveland Mark Blakemore


Oh no! :hiding:

Disaster

 

[Mareus]

I am well aware shiny effects have nothing to do with 3D. But thank you for treating me like a moron and explaining obvious like I am some twit.

 

[fastpunk]

Oh come on Fastpunk. NWN2 never looked like that and we both know it.

Those shots are from NWN2otB. That's how the game looks. I think Obsidian devs can confirm that no 'facelift' has been done to those shots. But more importantly, what these shots highlight is that a consistent art direction makes all the difference in the world. Compared to vanilla NWN2, MotB looks much better simply because Obsidian used the tech they had in a much better way. And I say it again, this is the whole point. How you use what you've got. 2D, 3D, whatever. It's not about how many Ds you've got.

And it's not really a fair fight considering BG was made 10 years ago. LOL

You were the one who put side by side shots from ToEE, NWN2 and BG2 and asked which one looked better. And then said 2D looks 10 times better than any 3D crap. I just offered a few shots to counter that statement. LOL

 

[MLMarkland]

I am well aware shiny effects have nothing to do with 3D. But thank you for treating me like a moron and explaining obvious like I am some twit.

I'm not treating you like a moron.

Are there any people in Obsidian who would one day like to make a 2D game which would look 10 times better than any 3D crap as witnessed from the screenshots above?

I was pointing out why this claim was invalid.

You used the blown out specular highlights caused by the collision of a poorly thought out spell lighting effect with the constraints of a real-time lighting solution as evidence that 2D game art is fundamentally superior to 3D game art.

I'm just saying it's not that simple. That statement has nothing to do with the quality of your intellect, which, I am sure, is unimpeachable.

 

[Mareus]

And I have top of the line PC, and I can tell you those screenshots are fake. NWN2 never looked so good on my PC, even with all the details on. Even if there was no face lifting used, I can guarantee they have been adjusting the camera to get the perfect angle, just like you can see on some Oblivion screen shots. Once the camera moves however, it all changes dramatically. And I stand by what I said, that 2D games look better than 3D even when compared with new games. You just used some promo screen shots taken from IGN. Why not actually take a gameplay moment screen shot?

And again I repeat all the screenshots I showed were taken in mid action, so all three screenshots got the same treatment.

 

[DiverNB]

Farcry 2 Comes out tomorrow, can't wait.

 

[Solohk]

And I have top of the line PC, and I can tell you those screenshots are fake.

Eh... Looks like the NWN2/MoTB I played.

 

[MLMarkland]

And I have top of the line PC, and I can tell you those screenshots are fake. NWN2 never looked so good on my PC, even with all the details on. Even if there was no face lifting used, I can guarantee they have been adjusting the camera to get the perfect angle, just like you can see on some Oblivion screen shots. Once the camera moves however, it all changes dramatically. And I stand by what I said, that 2D games look better than 3D even when compared with new games. You just used some promo screen shots taken from IGN. Why not actually take a gameplay moment screen shot?

And again I repeat all the screenshots I showed were taken in mid action, so all three screenshots got the same treatment.

These are all shots taken by somebody while playing the game using one of the default game cameras (some of which allow you to move the camera around with the PC as the focal point). None of these are painted-over or post-processed.

 

[DiverNB]

Also Looks like the NWN2/MOTB I played.

Granted, not in all areas as some were better designed than others, but generally that's what my experience was.

 

[Mareus]

Look, you don't need to show me screenshots. I am not a graphic whore, ok? And I know how NWN2 looks like with full details on. I ve played it and finished it and enjoyed it. May main problem is with the combat gameplay which I connect with 3D camera. If you just didn't have to adjust the camera every few seconds, it would be much better.

That gamespy screenshot is BTW fake too.

 

[Caveman]

 

[Mareus]

I recognize Sacred, but what game is the other one?

 

[MLMarkland]

 

[fastpunk]

Why not actually take a gameplay moment screen shot?

Here you go Sparky. Just for you:

And my PC isn't even high-end. As you can see, shadows are set on low and some stuff like normal mapped terrain are off.

 

[Mareus]

Why not actually take a gameplay moment screen shot?

Here you go Sparky. Just for you:

And my PC isn't even high-end.

LOL! Thank you for proving my point. Baldur's Gate looks a lot better. Same goes for Temple of Elemental Evil. But graphic is the least important in this here discussion.

 

[Caveman]

 

[fastpunk]

LOL! Thank you for proving my point. Baldur's Gate looks a lot better. Same goes for Temple of Elemental Evil.

:picard facepalm:

 

[Mareus]

Come on. Look at those trees. Look at how they are growing out of the ground. LOL! Look at those fence and bushes. If you find that better looking than BG or TOEE, than :facepalm: indeed. I won't even search for BG screenshots. Just take a look at Caveman's screenshots of those games I don't even recognize. You see the ground done in 2D? You see that tree how it has veins? Not even close, but like i said screw the graphic. The gameplay is more important.

 

[fastpunk]

Come on. Look at those trees. Look at how they are growing out of the ground. LOL! Look at those fence and bushes. If you find that better looking than BG or TOEE, than :facepalm: indeed.

OMG, look at those trees, how they are growing out of the ground. Look at those characters. LOL!

Oh look, I can do it too.

 

[racofer]

I told ya, the Camera on nwn2 ruins everything and turns people against each other.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

In the top-left corner of that pic, it says 'Gamers hell'. How apt.

 

[Ion Flux]

So anyway.

So far this month I've purchased:

1: Gun - $4
2: Hammer & Sickle - $2

I'm pretty sure that's it. People who buy games on the day of release are either suckers or they want to support the developers (I will be buying AoD shortly after it's release ... on Thursday).