Editorial GameSpy gets pissy with Fallout fans

[Saint_Proverbius]

I didn't say "Fallout fans hate any game that is not Fallout 3", only that some Fallout fans only want Fallout titles to be CRPGs (as opposed to console or strategy games). Check.

In being fair, you should at least know your facts. Many of the Fallout community were looking forward to Fallout Tactics right up until the first demo was released. It wasn't until then that Fallout fans started speaking out against the game en masse and that's because the demo showed us that a LOT of what we were promised about the game just wasn't in there. A tactical squad CRPG using Fallout's SPECIAL system as well as Fallout's setting isn't a bad idea, but the execution of it was pitiful. That includes the liberties taken with the setting and the lack of focus on what was in the setting, like hairy deathclaws, supermutants living in working oil refineries, the 50 star American flag, and so forth.

I didn't say FOBOS's success will equal high quality titles - I said that I hope that the money they make if it is a success can keep BIS around long enough to continue creating high quality PC titles. PC! Check.

Did you know that many of the BIS people like programmers and artists were pulled from making Fallout 3 to work on Fallout Enforcer? Did you know that Interplay stopped paying for the BG for the PC license in order to extend the license for the console BG games?

Things like that simply don't point in the direction that a successful Fallout Enforcer would mean better PC games from BIS. They point in the exact opposite direction, that making crappy console games is what the heads of IPLY would rather do.

I didn't say Arcanum sucked. I finished it, but decided that its weaknesses (graphics, combat, dialog system - by which I mean everyone on the planet was rude to my half-orc but decided to acept him once I pointed out that they were being a little unfair, useless NPCS) did not match its strengths (non-linearity, large world). However some people like this kind of game more than others, just like I like IWD more than you. Check.

Try playing a Half-Orc with the Ladies Man background. Of course, this doesn't solve the silliness about not being fair, but it is pretty funny being the Half-Orc everyone likes to be around.

Well don't worry - I for one intend to stay around and express my honest opinions...but don't worry, just because I like IWD it doesn't mean that I didn't think the NWN OC was shit.

Cool beans. Welcome aboard.

 

[DemonKing]

Who let this clueless blunder last this long around here?

Brother, I've been round about 5 posts, you've lasted 600+...seems to be that there is a fairly high tolerence for "clueless blunders" around here.

Many still play Diablo 2, which came out at the same time as Asswind Dale. Guess why? It's because nearly every game is the same in IWD while you can get together with friends easily in Diablo 2 and have fun tearing stuff up without the weak ass pretense of a story that IWD "possesses".

So according to you then, popular = good. Therefore since NWN sold an awful lot it must be good. Personally I've played through IWD 2.5 times and D2 once, so IWD had more replayability for me, but of course each to their own.

Oh and BTW the "weak ass pretense of a story" in IWD is actually quite elaborate if you take the time to examine it properly, with quite a few twists and turns...but obviously if you are a big D2 fan you're not that interested in story in the first place.

There's a reason why half-orcs aren't regarded too well, Spanky. Before you go into a twitch bitch again, you may want to look that up. In addition, you might also want to look up the definition of NPC as well, and please do not resort to the Sheriff Fuckwit "definition".

I was merely remarking that it got a bit tiring that every NPC I met reacted to me *exactly* the same way...I mean in our world there is not one single race or social group despised by everybody...but in Arcanum there is...a bit far fetched you think?

Oh and BTW please continue to use abusive language in your posts...it makes your arguments so much stronger and more poignant that way and really raises the tone of the discussion.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I didn't say "Fallout fans hate any game that is not Fallout 3", only that some Fallout fans only want Fallout titles to be CRPGs (as opposed to console or strategy games). Check.

Fair enough, but you are still mistaken. Like Saint pointed out Fallout fans were looking forward to FOT untill the demo, just like many people liked Lioheart until the demo came out. If the game is crap, it's a bit unfair to blame the fans for not liking it. Just like FOBOS is crap that has only one thing in common with Fallout - the name on a box.

I didn't say FOBOS's success will equal high quality titles - I said that I hope that the money they make if it is a success can keep BIS around long enough to continue creating high quality PC titles. PC! Check.

Hope is good when it's actually based on something. Unfortunately the only thing that FOBOS' success would bring is more FOBOS. Just like FOT didn't bring us closer to FO3 but to FOT2 that was canned later.

I really enjoyed IWD (and as I said to a lesser exent IWD2). Ok they were linear - but the graphics, gameplay, music and sound were all fantastic, particulary in the original. I also enjoyed the Fallout series...so what? Check

Graphics, music, and sound were ok, gameplay wasn't as good, but I suppose that's a matter of personal preferences.

I didn't say Arcanum sucked. I finished it, but decided that its weaknesses (graphics, combat, dialog system - by which I mean everyone on the planet was rude to my half-orc but decided to acept him once I pointed out that they were being a little unfair, useless NPCS) did not match its strengths (non-linearity, large world). However some people like this kind of game more than others, just like I like IWD more than you. Check.

I'm surprised that you chose to overlook an amazing gameworld with tons of role-playing opportunities, one of the best dialogues I've seen in a CRPG, original setting and characters, and instead focused on a few shortcomings and that half-orc example. The game wasn't perfect but the ratio of things they did right vs the things they didn't is 100:1. One of the best game ever.

Seems to me you're fitting the standard profile for an RPG Codex poster rather more than I fit the profile for a BIS forum poster, but hey, if you're afraid to break away from the pack and say something original...then don't let me stop you.

When you say "say something original" you mean "agree with me". That doesn't sound very original to me. You want to join us, fine, welcome, but don't you think that you have much more in common with the iply forums' crowd then with us? That was my point.

 

[Volourn]

Everyone sucks. Everyone should deal with it. And, oh, Arcanum is great. Don't diss it!

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Fallout fans pull this stuff all the time. They flamed Fallout: Tactics from the minute it was announced,

Saint got teh funnee on this one. V13.net was setup to BE a FO:T Fanboy Playground. Yup, that's the fans bagging a game right from the start right there.

I reiterate - gamers are buying a game, not stock in the company.

This is even funnier because NO-ONE's buying stock in Interplay at the moment and that's a problem too. Gamers aren't buying their games and investors aren't buying their stock. Yup, that's Interplay in a bag.

Funnily enough, consumers are more important than investors. Investors get a company off the ground, that's when they're needed. They buy a promise. Your consumers buy a solid, tangible product. It's the sales of that product that generate income for the company and cause Investors to gain more interest in the company (and usually cash out their investment or buy more).

In short, his analogy is the wrong way 'round. To an esyablished company, sales are more important than investors. No sales = no investors. Sales = Investors. But Investors != Sales.

 

[Rosh]

Brother, I've been round about 5 posts, you've lasted 600+...seems to be that there is a fairly high tolerence for "clueless blunders" around here.

Funny, I see that as nothing more than an incredibly pathetic dodge to address many of the points of your original wad of trash you posted. Oddly enough, you paint yourself into being a false hypocrite. Someone who accuses someone of something they in fact do not resemble yet they do so themselves.

Definition: irony.

So according to you then, popular = good.

I didn't say that. I said why it is still played more. Learn to read in context.

Therefore since NWN sold an awful lot it must be good. Personally I've played through IWD 2.5 times and D2 once, so IWD had more replayability for me, but of course each to their own.

Considering this was built upon a straw man construct, it makes it even more...oh, what would be an apropos term? Pointless in hyperbole? Hmm, that sounds like a painting's name.

Oh and BTW the "weak ass pretense of a story" in IWD is actually quite elaborate if you take the time to examine it properly, with quite a few twists and turns...

Which are nearly the same damn thing every time you play. In the same dungeons. Just about the same traps, encounters, layout, almost everything.

A nearly static slashfest of a game is generally a poor one, and it isn't helped much by the IE's combat. Apparently, a lot of people prefer Diablo 2's combat style compared to that of IWD, along with the item and character systems. I wouldn't say it was better because it was more popular, I would say it was more popular because it was a BETTER BUILT slashfest. Quite frankly it is the one of more accomodating and robust slashfest games I've seen in a long time.

It's quite frankly not my problem if you couldn't find teams of people to play with in Diablo 2, which is where the real fun begins.

but obviously if you are a big D2 fan you're not that interested in story in the first place.

Wow! Nothing quite contributes to a discussion when you go to such lengths to apply "clueless" to yourself so succinctly. The rampant hyperbole with "a big Diablo fan" is even more comical. Here you go, presuming to speak of matters involving Fallout, and haven't really heard of me. That...truly is amusing and quite sad at the same time. No, it isn't ego at all.

In addition, when the story nor slashing quite manage to get my attention either way because they both feel uninvolving and uninspired, then I frankly don't care for the game.

I was merely remarking that it got a bit tiring that every NPC I met reacted to me *exactly* the same way...I mean in our world there is not one single race or social group despised by everybody...but in Arcanum there is...a bit far fetched you think?

Have you been living under a rock all of your life? Are you so socially inept to fail to understand that by nature, and as reflected into sci-fi and fantasy, man is inherently xenophobic?

Are you that inept at understanding a setting to not observe that there may be reasons why they are regarded differently, as the dwarves are very different from the elves, who are different from the orcs, who are different from the ogres, and so on. Each has their own prejudices, their own agenda, their own desires.

Are you so uneducated to fail to comprehend what would happen to a race developing higher intelligence when in the stunting shadow of another race with higher intelligence? It should have been pretty obvious to put that conclusion together from the parallel of how more developed countries treat less developed countries around the world, especially 1900 and earlier. You know, still the presence of mind in the steampunk setting with the clear logging companies, slave trades, and all that kind of raw expansion.

Oh and BTW please continue to use abusive language in your posts...it makes your arguments so much stronger and more poignant that way and really raises the tone of the discussion.

Oh, and BTW please ignore the rebuttal of your idiocy, which has been voiced more than thrice over in very thorough fashions...it makes your arguments so much weaker and more drivelous as you keep floundering through the discussion.

 

[DemonKing]

Wow! Nothing quite contributes to a discussion when you go to such lengths to apply "clueless" to yourself so succinctly. The rampant hyperbole with "a big Diablo fan" is even more comical. Here you go, presuming to speak of matters involving Fallout, and haven't really heard of me. That...truly is amusing and quite sad at the same time. No, it isn't ego at all.

Yes - please forgive me. How could I not have heard of the "Fallout messiah". Have I been under a rock all my life or what?

Friend if being "the voice of Fallout" is that important to you I will happily cede the title to you. I've only played the games once each (well 1.5 times for the original) and so can't possibly know what I'm talking about...

You're right about one thing: "...it truely is amusing and quite sad at the same time."

 

[mr. lamat]

such bitchy little grrls... jeez...

anyhoo, poster above was stating, inregards to orc prejudice, that after a initial reaction of "piss off, you orc swine", a simple reply of "sir, you have offended me." seemed to negate any and all racial discongruity. i find that rather silly. if being nice didn't win everyone over for dr. king, it probably wouldn't work for mr. grok. even that could be overcome by wearing a smoking jacket... "well, he is a cursed orc, but he does have style... mebbe i should be nicer to him." seemed to make the whole racial hatred angle play a bit thin, to me at least. it would have been nicer to see a few orc specific quests like... i dunno... breaking up a press-gang and helping some of your green skinned brothers escape a slave factory, or like the statue quest in ashbury, helping enact some new labour legislation thru debate. these might have given more flesh and a palpable feeling of 'orchood' to the player, rather than a trite "i hate orcs"/"please don't"/"well... okay" interaction at the start of most dialogues.

you haters need to learn how to read better.

 

[Spazmo]

helping some of your green skinned brothers escape a slave factory

You mean like the quest that's already in Arcanum where you can free some orc slaves from a factory if you want to? YEAH THAT'D ROCK!

 

[DemonKing]

anyhoo, poster above was stating, inregards to orc prejudice, that after a initial reaction of "piss off, you orc swine", a simple reply of "sir, you have offended me." seemed to negate any and all racial discongruity. i find that rather silly. if being nice didn't win everyone over for dr. king, it probably wouldn't work for mr. grok. even that could be overcome by wearing a smoking jacket... "well, he is a cursed orc, but he does have style... mebbe i should be nicer to him." seemed to make the whole racial hatred angle play a bit thin, to me at least. it would have been nicer to see a few orc specific quests like... i dunno... breaking up a press-gang and helping some of your green skinned brothers escape a slave factory, or like the statue quest in ashbury, helping enact some new labour legislation thru debate. these might have given more flesh and a palpable feeling of 'orchood' to the player, rather than a trite "i hate orcs"/"please don't"/"well... okay" interaction at the start of most dialogues.

you haters need to learn how to read better.

Thank you Mr Lamut!

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Arcanum is a reasonable game but I think its "revolutionary dialog system" is blown a little bit out of proportion.

However - as always, each to their own. If Arcanum rocked your world then I'm cool with that.

 

[mr. lamat]

helping some of your green skinned brothers escape a slave factory

You mean like the quest that's already in Arcanum where you can free some orc slaves from a factory if you want to? YEAH THAT'D ROCK!

you help an orc labour organizer escape from a shootout, in a great nod to the massive Pinkerton vs. Unionizer battles of 19th century factories and the horrid labour conditions they fought against. go teamsters. the quest is open to all races tho'... mr. lamat was talking about something race specific, and it was more of a general idea rather than something researched. while it might have something akin to a quest in the game, my idea lent itself more to encountering an empty orc village, save one lone survivor who related the story of the press-gang, and then the player had the choice to act upon it... or, mebbe even join the slavers in some weird fulfilment of self-hatred over having such poor genetic make-up... kinda like you, pookie.

don't scream and don't try to offer your ideas, they are both poor attempts at communication.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

you help an orc labour organizer escape from a shootout, in a great nod to the massive Pinkerton vs. Unionizer battles of 19th century factories and the horrid labour conditions they fought against. go teamsters. the quest is open to all races tho'... mr. lamat was talking about something race specific, and it was more of a general idea rather than something researched. while it might have something akin to a quest in the game, my idea lent itself more to encountering an empty orc village, save one lone survivor who related the story of the press-gang, and then the player had the choice to act upon it... or, mebbe even join the slavers in some weird fulfilment of self-hatred over having such poor genetic make-up... kinda like you, pookie.

don't scream and don't try to offer your ideas, they are both poor attempts at communication.

And so is posing as two different people to argue your own point. Pathetic.

 

[Sheriff05]

helping some of your green skinned brothers escape a slave factory

You mean like the quest that's already in Arcanum where you can free some orc slaves from a factory if you want to? YEAH THAT'D ROCK!

you help an orc labour organizer escape from a shootout, in a great nod to the massive Pinkerton vs. Unionizer battles of 19th century factories and the horrid labour conditions they fought against. go teamsters. the quest is open to all races tho'... mr. lamat was talking about something race specific, and it was more of a general idea rather than something researched. while it might have something akin to a quest in the game, my idea lent itself more to encountering an empty orc village, save one lone survivor who related the story of the press-gang, and then the player had the choice to act upon it... or, mebbe even join the slavers in some weird fulfilment of self-hatred over having such poor genetic make-up... kinda like you, pookie.

don't scream and don't try to offer your ideas, they are both poor attempts at communication.

Hmmmm, refering to himself in the 3rd person?, and with miserable grammar to boot.
Now who's that sound like?
I wonder..

 

[mr. lamat]

mr. lamat is mr. lamat and he lives in vancouver. it is sunny here today, but the ground is still a bit wet from rain earlier this morning. while i am grand enough to contain contradiction at times, i am, most assuredly, a singular entity. who happens to think arcanum is a great game, despite a few minor flaws and that horrid scroll slowdown bug.

you need to ease up on the hate and prejudment, padawan.

the grammar is also above reproach, simply at a level of nuance beyond your poor sense of comprehesion. i apologize and will attempt to dumb down further correspondence so you can keep up, pookie.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

He probably learned his communication skills from Furcadia then.

 

[Sheriff05]

mr. lamat is mr. lamat and he lives in vancouver. it is sunny here today, but the ground is still a bit wet from rain earlier this morning. while i am grand enough to contain contradiction at times, i am, most assuredly, a singular entity. who happens to think arcanum is a great game, despite a few minor flaws and that horrid scroll slowdown bug.

you need to ease up on the hate and prejudment, padawan.

the grammar is also above reproach, simply at a level of nuance beyond your poor sense of comprehesion. i apologize and will attempt to dumb down further correspondence so you can keep up, pookie.

Oh so sorry, it is just that your syntax and approach is practically identical to someone else I know who lurks on a variety of messages boards and likes to pawn himself off as some sage-like, retarded half-orc. This egotisical chump is the ultimate in pomposity and first grade bullshit. Now IF that's not you, I duly apologize, IF it is then please hurry and step in front of that bus that has your name on it.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Oddly enough, I thought the same thing, Sheriff.

 

[Rosh]

What was that DemonKing? You retract your original brain droppings by merit that you can't bother to stay in the discussion and apparently have the need to resort to hyperbole at every turn?

Why, thank you.

 

[DemonKing]

What was that DemonKing? You retract your original brain droppings by merit that you can't bother to stay in the discussion and apparently have the need to resort to hyperbole at every turn?

If I came to you and claimed I was God and told you that you were a lowly mortal unworthy of even breathing the same air as me, would you consider time spent arguing with me well spent?

IMO There's no point arguing with someone who honestly seems to believe (as it appears you do) that his word alone is enough to settle an argument.

I think your inane and often crude babbling and delusions of (petty) grandeur only go to prove that there is an element of truth in the article that is the original topic of discussion: that is, that *some* Fallout fans can be just a bit rabid.

Of course, that's not to say that Fallout Tactics was a good game, but it wasn't a bad game because there were hairy deathclaws - it was a bad game because for every half decent element (the graphics, for example) there was a woeful element as well (the complete lack of personality in your team, for instance) and the majority of the core gameplay was just bland.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If I came to you and claimed I was God and told you that you were a lowly mortal unworthy of even breathing the same air as me, would you consider time spent arguing with me well spent?

Claimed that he was God? Do you have some kind of reading comprehension problem?
Here is what Rosh said:

Here you go, presuming to speak of matters involving Fallout, and haven't really heard of me. That...truly is amusing and quite sad at the same time. No, it isn't ego at all.

And that was after you called him a Diablo2 fan. Anyway, a smart person, which you are unfortunately not, would have searched for some info to see what Rosh was talking about before jumping to your clueless assumptions.

 

[DemonKing]

Here you go, presuming to speak of matters involving Fallout, and haven't really heard of me. That...truly is amusing and quite sad at the same time. No, it isn't ego at all.

And that was after you called him a Diablo2 fan. Anyway, a smart person, which you are unfortunately not, would have searched for some info to see what Rosh was talking about before jumping to your clueless assumptions.

So if I watch Star Wars, but have never heard of George Lucas, I'm not fit to comment on the quality or content of those films, or give my honest opinion?

And let's face it - whoever Rosh is, he ain't the George Lucas of Fallout. He's just a very little fish in a little pond, if that.

I followed the development of Fallout back when it was a GURPS game, was there for the release of Fallout 2 diligently bagging Feargus on the interplay boards for the rampant bugginess, and even finished FOT (*shudder*), but I've never heard of Rosh...nor do I expect him to have heard of me.

If his ego can't accept that, it ain't my problem.

Oh and incidentally, if you could read you would have noticed that I didn't say "Rosh claimed he was god", I said, I was asking Rosh how he would feel if I claimed I was god...sorry for the pedantry, but it seems to be par for the course on these boards. Fight fire with fire, as they say.

:D

 

[Vault Dweller]

I followed the development of Fallout back when it was a GURPS game...., but I've never heard of Rosh...but will keep posting my honest opinion regardless

This is a much better response then "OMG! He thinks he is a God". After all we are not here to judge other people (although it could be fun ) but to express and share our honest opinions. :wink:

 

[Ausir]

Rosh is the only fallout fan to appear in FOT!

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

You mean Rosh ISN'T God?!?! :shock:

 

[triCritical]

So if I watch Star Wars, but have never heard of George Lucas, I'm not fit to comment on the quality or content of those films, or give my honest opinion?

How do you know he ain't the CEO of some tech company or something? Just because he doesn't make games or movies, doesn't mean he little. He could in charge of the New York Federal Reserve, or something...

Sheesh, if you think being a crappy writer/director, or working for a game company is a big fish then you need to set your sights a little higher. Especially since I once talk to a guy in the game industry who said that there were people who left to get jobs like mine. Go Figure...