George Ziets opening a new RPG studio - Digimancy Entertainment

[luj1]

it doesn't have to be that way. Nothing stops indie RPG studios to sprout in America like mushrooms after rain

you mean the most dumbed down nation in the world

with the most $$$

that is a recipe for disaster

More chance of some Bulgar dude in his basement creating a neo classic in the vein of Grimoire/Underrail

 

[luj1]

Why are people forgeting all technological advantages that Devs today have and Devs 20 years ago didn't have, that this disparity doesn't exist? It's like getting to the Moon. You were able to do it back when computing power of entire NASA was lesser then today's iPhone. How? Answer is simple. Total Societal Decline

exactly

decline of education and culture

malnourished people used to make cult hits in a cellar

games we still play today

 

[rusty_shackleford]

it doesn't have to be that way. Nothing stops indie RPG studios to sprout in America like mushrooms after rain

you mean the most dumbed down nation in the world

with the most $$$

that is a recipe for disaster

More chance of some Bulgar dude in his basement creating a neo classic in the vein of Grimoire/Underrail

Grimoire was made by an american

 

[luj1]

Pentiment is made by Obsidian

They also have Microsoft's money to throw around

is that why it looks like a java game from 2006

 

[Infinitron]

Pentiment, which is as about as small as it gets, looks like a Flash game, and has no combat system, is taking four years.

The IGN article says that, but I'm skeptical that the game was truly in development before Sawyer posted that Missouri field notebook back in the summer of 2019. Brainstorming shit while on his break year after finishing Deadfire != development.

 

[luj1]

Yes, it would have been better.

lol no
when has a game ever been made better when it was nearly complete

Skyrim which you worship, faggot

couldnt even use 2 cpu cores at launch lol

 

[luj1]

it doesn't have to be that way. Nothing stops indie RPG studios to sprout in America like mushrooms after rain

you mean the most dumbed down nation in the world

with the most $$$

that is a recipe for disaster

More chance of some Bulgar dude in his basement creating a neo classic in the vein of Grimoire/Underrail

Grimoire was made by an american

- 1 guy in a basement
- educated older guy
- completely outside of normal gamedev MO in the west

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

He should have made a visual novel witch choices

This stuff sells abysmally bad. So no, they doesn't have.

 

[Brancaleone]

it doesn't have to be that way. Nothing stops indie RPG studios to sprout in America like mushrooms after rain

you mean the most dumbed down nation in the world

with the most $$$

that is a recipe for disaster

More chance of some Bulgar dude in his basement creating a neo classic in the vein of Grimoire/Underrail

Grimoire was made by an american

- 1 guy in a basement an atomic bunker full of black mold
- educated older guy
- completely outside of normal gamedev MO in the west

According to a learned variant of the same myth

 

[The Wall]

battleground against the absent strawmen of cultural decline.

Just *honk*
Eastern European and Japanese devs live on same planet. When it comes to quality gaming output they outpace Americans who both have more experience, better tech and more money? How? Shitty human capital. Simple As

If you think American culture hasn't drastically changed in past 10 years, and that all indexes of societal success aren't down, then I'm not sure inside what Netflix special you live in

Dude... it's just the fact that they had/have ESO still going and people are still paying/playing it.

How about releasing ES single player by giving IP to another studio temporarily, keeping ESO online alive WHILE keep working on Starfield. What? Bethesda never heard of multitasking? If you think it's business savvy not releasing new ES single player game for 10+ years, then you are surely a Genius. Genius with capital [G]. Almost as handsome and smart as uncle Pete Hines

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah all this narrative-fist wankery is a red flag. Heck, main reason why Ziets-led WL3 was so well received is how they finally got combat right compared to limpdick predecessor.

 

[Nano]

You guys are something else. As if the combat wasn't by far the worst thing in MotB and everyone didn't only like it as a storyfag game. Narrative has always been George's strength.

If the game is gonna be bad it's because of currentyear wokery, not because it's a hardcore storyfag game. (which btw is also true for the #1 Codex RPG. Seethe.)

 

[mediocrepoet]

You guys are something else. As if the combat wasn't by far the worst thing in MotB and everyone didn't only like it as a storyfag game. Narrative has always been George's strength.

If the game is gonna be bad it's because of currentyear wokery, not because it's a hardcore storyfag game. (which btw is also true for the #1 Codex RPG. Seethe.)

This. Storyfag games are hugely popular here, for whatever merits. Regardless, the only reason Ziets is on anyone's radar is the strength of his writing. Most of the takes here are like being pissed that Avellone gets talked about for writing instead of designing turn based wolf combat encounters because of the insights he gained while dying repeatedly in Arcanum.

 

[Wunderbar]

I'll take a storyfag rpg with good story and lame combat over """a narrative rpg""" any day of the week.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'll take a storyfag rpg with good story and lame combat over """a narrative rpg""" any day of the week.

Since you seem to be talking about a Disco Novella game, I'm with you. However, that's not necessarily what's been implied by that Digimancy update.

Most importantly, it means we’re a narrative-first studio. When we design our games, we start with a story or character experience. Then we develop game systems to bring our narrative elements to life. The opposite approach is more common in the games industry… and sometimes systems and narrative are developed separately, under the assumption that certain systems (e.g., combat) need to be in every RPG. However, we think a narrative-first perspective can lead to more innovative and immersive games and mechanics.

This has always struck me as the way to go with game design that is trying to implement story in any meaningful way since mechanics should support the world and story being told rather than the story being shoehorned in to the development side, with compromises being made if something isn't feasible due to project constraints.

Regardless, like I say, no one would care about Ziets at all if it wasn't about writing and storyline ideas.

 

[Harthwain]

I'll take a storyfag rpg with good story and lame combat over """a narrative rpg""" any day of the week.

What's the point of having combat if it's going to be lame? Either make it good or cut it out.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'll take a storyfag rpg with good story and lame combat over """a narrative rpg""" any day of the week.

What's the point of having combat if it's going to be lame? Either make it good or cut it out.

I ... agree, to the extent that if you do that, it'll make the storyfags happy and it'll save me the time of trying and hating it.

 

[Harthwain]

I ... agree, to the extent that if you do that, it'll make the storyfags happy and it'll save me the time of trying and hating it.

Why the hate though?

Games like Disco Elysium or Planescape: Torment fly almost exclusively by the virtue of their writing, but it's very unlikely to pull out games like that in a reliable fashion. On the other hand, tactical games with RPG elements (such as King Arthur: Knight' Tale or Battle Brothers, to name a few) are more likely to succeed, provided the game mechanics are good enough (and it is way easier to make a decent combat system). So I wouldn't be too worried that you'll see too many games for the "storyfags".

Sure, there might be some more attempts after Disco Elysium, but trying to merely copy it without thinking will end up like Torment: Tides of Numenera. Yo can't have a game with a lot of writing if your writing is shit and expect it to work. This is why I always advocate for brevity and well thought systems, even though I do enjoy games like Disco Elysium of Planescape: Torment.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I ... agree, to the extent that if you do that, it'll make the storyfags happy and it'll save me the time of trying and hating it.

Why the hate though?

Games like Disco Elysium or Planescape: Torment fly by the virtue of their writing, but it's very unlikely to pull out games like that in a reliable fashion. On the other hand, tactical games with RPG elements (such as King Arthur: Knight' Tale or Battle Brothers, to name a few) are more likely to succeed, provided the game mechanics are good enough (and it is way easier to make a decent combat system). So I wouldn't be too worried that you'll see too many games for the "storyfags".

Sure, there might be some more attempts after Disco Elysium, but just trying to copy it without thinking will end up like Torment: Tides of Numenera. You simply can't have a game with a lot of writing if your writing is shit. This is why I always advocate for brevity and well thought systems, even though I do enjoy games like Disco Elysium of Planescape: Torment, which are almost entirely focused on writing.

Because I don't like them. I didn't think this was a hard concept to figure out. You know how some people hate tacos but other people love them? I thought Disco was retarded and PST is ridiculously overrated. Yet some people love them. Tbh, I think that's the ideal state of gaming, where some people have their niche hit to such an extent they love the hell out of it and people who are outside of that don't care much or even dislike it, but have something else hit their sweet spot. The alternative is the current AAA mess of milquetoast shit that aims at the lowest common denominator to try and get everyone to buy it since it's good enough and no one (except the Codex) hates it enough not to play it.

Re: your broader (perhaps only?) point, no, I want games that appeal to other people to be made and for each game to really go with a strong vision, even if that means that I may not like it. I hate Disco Elysium, I don't even think it's an RPG. But I'm glad it exists for people who loved it.

 

[Harthwain]

Because I don't like them. I didn't think this was a hard concept to figure out.

My point was: Why bother hating it instead of ignoring it, if you know it's not your cup of tea? Or: Why bother trying it, if you know you'll hate it? I don't care for jRPGs at all, for example.

Re: your broader (perhaps only?) point, no, I want games that appeal to other people to be made and for each game to really go with a strong vision, even if that means that I may not like it. I hate Disco Elysium, I don't even think it's an RPG. But I'm glad it exists for people who loved it.

I can accept that people don't like what Disco Elysium does, but trying to deny it being an RPG when there are so many other games no deserving that distinction even more is too unobjective to be fair assessment. But we're entering the "What's an RPG?" territory here.

 

[Wunderbar]

I'll take a storyfag rpg with good story and lame combat over """a narrative rpg""" any day of the week.

What's the point of having combat if it's going to be lame? Either make it good or cut it out.

if you cut combat from PST it would turn into a lame visual novel. No one would've talked about it a couple of years after release, let alone 20.

Combat (or any other substitute mechanical gameplay) makes the game.

 

[luj1]

Yeah all this narrative-first wankery is a red flag.

no balls

 

[mediocrepoet]

Because I don't like them. I didn't think this was a hard concept to figure out.

My point was: Why bother hating it instead of ignoring it, if you know it's not your cup of tea? Or: Why bother trying it, if you know you'll hate it? I don't care for jRPGs at all, for example.

Re: your broader (perhaps only?) point, no, I want games that appeal to other people to be made and for each game to really go with a strong vision, even if that means that I may not like it. I hate Disco Elysium, I don't even think it's an RPG. But I'm glad it exists for people who loved it.

I can accept that people don't like what Disco Elysium does, but trying to deny it being an RPG when there are so many other games no deserving that distinction even more is too unobjective to be fair assessment. But we're entering the "What's an RPG?" territory here.

I guess you somehow Nostradumbass how you'll hate a game when you've never played anything like it or enjoyed most other games of the general type, right? So... I should know I'd hate PS:T without trying it when I liked all of the Infinity Engine games, love D&D and like the Planescape setting.

Or maybe I should have known I'd hate Disco Disco despite never trying a non-combat driven game and having a bunch of Codexers (of questionable taste, I've come to find) raving about it.

Sort of like that? That's how you end up with retard Codexers hateposting about things they've never bothered to try. I at least try every game I shit on.

 

[Harthwain]

if you cut combat from PST it would turn into a lame visual novel. No one would've talked about it a couple of years after release, let alone 20.

Combat (or any other substitute mechanical gameplay) makes the game.

You can't be serious. Nobody talks about PST because of its combat. More like despite of its combat.

I guess you somehow Nostradumbass how you'll hate a game when you've never played anything like it or enjoyed most other games of the general type, right? So... I should know I'd hate PS:T without trying it when I liked all of the Infinity Engine games, love D&D and like the Planescape setting.

Or maybe I should have known I'd hate Disco Disco despite never trying a non-combat driven game and having a bunch of Codexers (of questionable taste, I've come to find) raving about it.

Sort of like that? That's how you end up with retard Codexers hateposting about things they've never bothered to try. I at least try every game I shit on.

I thought you played Planescape: Torment and therefore knew what you were signing up to with Disco Elysium. But props to you for trying stuff out, I can respect that.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I thought you played Planescape: Torment and therefore knew what you were signing up to with Disco Elysium. But props to you for trying stuff out, I can respect that.

I tried PST, it's true. I was actually curious whether the people who insist that if you remove the combat from it, you'd make a better game. I'm happy to report that although that may be true, it reconfirms my suspicion that you'd end up with a not particularly great Adventure game and PS:T was pretty close to one already.

But seriously, I do try to be open minded about most things and I'm enough of an actual fan of games that I can appreciate when something ticks someone's boxes that they get hyped over it. I do it often enough myself, just not for those.

EDIT: I was also curious about the... uh. The whatever box thought cabinet thing that keeps your personality elements that got talked up a lot. It seemed like the sort of thing you'd have to play to "get" and I still think that's true.