Gore and Violence in gaming, two recent opinions

[Gord]

Seems there's a big thread in the Borderlands 2 forums going on from people demanding more gore and splatter effects in the game:
http://www.golem.de/news/borderlands-2-beschwerden-ueber-zu-wenig-gewaltinhalte-1209-94807.html
(german news, but contains some more links to english discussions)
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=148825

And then there's also this piece from Warren Spector complaining about "ultraviolence" in recent games:
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/06/15/warren-spector-ultraviolence-in-games-going-too-far/

Often enough, the arguments in favor are along the lines of immersion, realism (yeah, Fallout 3, very realistic) and personal freedom.
On the other hand it probably goes to show that even today the common rabble average person isn't that different from roman plebeians enjoying some gladiators hacking themselves up at the colloseum.

Lately I find myself more and more bored when seeing another trailer showcasing splattering blood in epic amounts/detail (e.g. Dishonored). It's become some silly, childish gimmick, imho. In some way I can agree with Spector.
What do you think? Are ultra-violent gore levels necessary/helpful?

 

[made]

 

[Turisas]

Today's gore and splatter are completely tame compared to some earlier games. Where's the Soldier of Fortune and Carmageddon of today? There's barely any gibbing in games (most FPS games are content with that retarded red mist that dissipates right away), let alone some proper effects like SoF had (guts spilling out, half the skull getting blown off etc.). Fallout 3 and NV have over the top and childish effects, had they been more like Fallout 1 & 2 it could've been glorious.

 

[Gord]

I see a certain difference between the almost-comical and somewhat detached gore and gibbing in older games, and the more in-your-face and up-close-and-personal effects in newer games.

 

[Turisas]

and the more in-your-face and up-close-and-personal effects in newer games.

Granted I don't play on the consoles at all (so I haven't played God of War and such) but I can't really think of any recent titles that'd fit those - care to name a few?

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot Manhunt - never really played those but I guess they'd fit the bill at least.

 

[Kukulkan]

Besides adding some humour and thus helping the atmosphere, gore and violence in a game is rather unimportant. LOL at claims of "realism".

 

[Gord]

and the more in-your-face and up-close-and-personal effects in newer games.

Granted I don't play on the consoles at all (so I haven't played God of War and such) but I can't really think of any recent titles that'd fit those - care to name a few?

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot Manhunt - never really played those but I guess they'd fit the bill at least.

As I said, e.g. one of the Dishonored trailers showed a lot of throat-slitting and blood-spraying.
A few scenes from Crysis, maybe.
The gore in FO3 (and NV, I guess) was completely over the top, too.
Ultimately I don't play many of those games, either, but from time to time I watch some trailer too see what's cool with the console kiddies atm.

Maybe it has to do with the perspective and detail? 3rd person isometrical at 640x480 just has a different effect from 1st person in 1680x1050.

 

[Gozma]

The brodawg modern war shooters have you graphically slitting a hi-res person's throat and stuff, it's pretty unpleasant for me to watch anyway. But it's partially because I know millions of normal people are seeing it with their retard eyes and who knows what it is doing to their brains. If it were in an obscure RPG that 10,000 nerdo-connoisseurs would play it wouldn't phase me at all I think

 

[Angthoron]

There's room for both. I don't cry for lack of gore in games like UT, and I don't cry about its presence in games like SoF. Both can be entertaining, both can be shit, depends on how the devs do it.

However, if there's gibbing and gore, then it should be part of gameplay. In SoF, you could blow off a bloke's leg and yeah, it would affect them quite drastically. I also heard that if you did that in MP, and the target survived, their mobility would be SEVERELY impaired.

Compare and contrast with modern games, where splatter is nothing more than flavour sprinkle for the most part (Binary Domain seems to have been the only one that had dismemberment actually influence gameplay in my recent memory, but I don't play console either so maybe there's like a shitton more of such).

 

[dnf]

Binary Domain seems to have been the only one that had dismemberment actually influence gameplay in my recent memory, but I don't play console either so maybe there's like a shitton more of such.

Derp Space 1,2 too. I like the violence in Max Payne 3, dumbed down game aside...

 

[Angthoron]

Binary Domain seems to have been the only one that had dismemberment actually influence gameplay in my recent memory, but I don't play console either so maybe there's like a shitton more of such.

Derp Space 1,2 too. I like the violence in Max Payne 3, dumbed down game aside...

Oh yeah, Derp Space, that's right.

Still, there's very few games that usually do something with gore. Well actually, there's very little games these days do with all their assets. Physics engine? Let's limit its use to a couple of scripts and tiny objects! Gore? Let's make it simply to be there! Potentially stunning visuals? Let's add a piss filter and make the level look like an average day at the proctologist's! It's just so fucking bland, boring and underused.

 

[JarlFrank]

Today's gore and splatter are completely tame compared to some earlier games. Where's the Soldier of Fortune and Carmageddon of today? There's barely any gibbing in games (most FPS games are content with that retarded red mist that dissipates right away), let alone some proper effects like SoF had (guts spilling out, half the skull getting blown off etc.). Fallout 3 and NV have over the top and childish effects, had they been more like Fallout 1 & 2 it could've been glorious.

Yeah, I haven't seen any proper blood and gore like Soldier of Fortune had in modern games. Today, they're just overusing splattery effects that are supposed to look cool and over the top while lacking the satisfying punch of good old gibbing.

 

[Turisas]

Maybe it has to do with the perspective and detail? 3rd person isometrical at 640x480 just has a different effect from 1st person in 1680x1050.

That's definitely a huge aspect on the impact gore can have (animation - the more detailed the "better" - being the most important imo) but still, that death animation from FO1/2 where the target twitches around while his chest gets shredded by a bullet burst is still unmatched in its gruesomeness. FO3 and NV could've been something else if they had had torso effects like that (blowing a hole into someone's chest is entirely different than scoring a crit and having legs and feet blown off).

 

[Commissar Draco]

Spoiler

Witcher 2 did this right atlast game with both tits and blood. Poor Germans, Kwans and Ausies.

Edited to add NSFW warning and spoiler tags so our gaylord mods won't whine.

 

[potatojohn]

But you can't compare something like SoF which was an old school shooter with a gimmick to a cinematic experience where a mo-capped Sam Fisher repeatedly stabs people in the neck or breaks their faces through toilet sinks.

 

[DraQ]

I like event appropriate levels of violence in my games.
If you stick a shotgun in somebody's face, slash him across abdomen or blow him up in a giant fiery fireball, the result should not be pretty.

What I hate like is games going "Look! Look! We're so edgy! So shocking! Everyone has at least 50l of blood in them! Look! We even splatter it on camera all the time and characters engage in romantic dialogue while completely caked with blood! Look!". Shitty and over the top. I'm not interested in violence for violence's sake.

Well, ok, it was fun in Blood, but otherwise it sucks.

I can't comment on SoF - violence (and damage system) was generally event-appropriate in 1 but the game was pretty meh overall, haven't played the sequels due to lack of care on my part.

 

[Gord]

Things can "just happen" or they can be shown in slow-motion with the camera centered right on the eyes of the poor guy you just disembowled and his blood obscuring half your vision.
Both show almost the same things, but it's the latter case that's making a fetish out of the gore and violence which I don't feel fully comfortable with.

 

[mondblut]

Gore offends prudes and nofuniks, therefore, more gore is a good thing.

 

[Angthoron]

Things can "just happen" or they can be shown in slow-motion with the camera centered right on the eyes of the poor guy you just disembowled and his blood obscuring half your vision.
Both show almost the same things, but it's the latter case that's making a fetish out of the gore and violence which I don't feel fully comfortable with.

Yeah, again, SoF and DbtS (I think it was that, at least) just had you do all this gore shit as part of normal combat flow - no slow-downs, zoom-ins and other shit.

 

[DraQ]

Yeah, I forgot about cinefaggic slowdowns and killcams.

 

[laclongquan]

Wate'er, chap. I cant be arsed to care.

Although I turned up the violence meter in Fallout, that is because it related to a quest and several game sequences, not because the gore turned me on. If nothing else, the fiery tango of death bored the 6th time it appeared.

 

[Destroid]

The level of gore should fit the game. Ridiculous, over the top gore suits ridiculous, over the top games.

 

[DraQ]

The level of gore should fit the game. Ridiculous, over the top gore suits ridiculous, over the top games.

Can argue with that, but it somehow doesn't work in modern games.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Modern games has this uncanny valley effect when it comes to volience and gore too... It is OK in older Cartoonish like games and in RL but not in titles like F3, FNV, Skyrim etc...

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Spoiler

Witcher 2 did this right atlast game with both tits and blood. Poor Germans, Kwans and Ausies.

Edited to add NSFW warning and spoiler tags so our gaylord mods won't whine.

Your lack of faith is disturbing brother Draco.