Gore and Violence in gaming, two recent opinions

[Gord]

Witcher 2 did this right atlast game with both tits and blood. Poor Germans, Kwans and Ausies.

Germans definitely got the important part (tits).
As for the blood, there was still some in it (like in that linked scene, but also splatters in combat), so I can't complain.

Edit: I'm not totaly sure about possible differences in the vid, might be that the final scene with Detmold lying on the ground had a bit less blood (realistic amounts instead of 50 liters).

 

[Angthoron]

Witcher 2 did this right atlast game with both tits and blood. Poor Germans, Kwans and Ausies.

Germans definitely got the important part (tits).
As for the blood, there was still some in it (like in that linked scene, but also splatters in combat), so I can't complain.

Edit: I'm not totaly sure about possible differences in the vid, might be that the final scene with Detmold lying on the ground had a bit less blood (realistic amounts instead of 50 liters).

Germans are like some sort of bizarro Americans, sex is okay, violence isn't.

 

[Statik]

I don't feel particularly strong about violence, but the omgbloodgutstehawsumz trend does tend to become ridiculous and obnoxious after a short while. Case in point, those retarded omgslowmo death animations in Fallout 3/NV. They get boring after the first few hours and having to watch a head exploding in slow motion for the 153rd time is an annoying waste of time that only manages to make the already bad combat even more tedious.

 

[Gord]

Actually I think the americans are more bizarro there...

Also it's only excessive blood/violence that's not ok, while americans seem to start riots over a single nipple...

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Romans enjoying gladiatorial fights were bad because it involved people getting maimed or dying, not because of visual effects.

Anyway, I remember having problems with violence in SoF. Those screams sounded very convincing. At some point I was trying to disarm opponents instead of killing them because it was made rather unpleasant to me by the special effects.
Also, I remember that after playing it, I would hear gunfire and screams and see muzzle flashes when closing eyes.

 

[dibens]

Imaginary violence is satisfying when done right (Cleanly sawed off limbs falling off of enemies no matter how you attack them in Fallout 3 is a prime example of how not to do it). The lack of gore bothers me just as much. I remember playing Titan Quest and to me the absence of blood and enemies falling down like weightless dolls made for a boring and forgettable experience. Same thing goes for driving games- you want to see cars get wrecked, not this lame ass Need for Speed bullshit.

Borderlands is a hack'n'slash game basically. You are spending hours killing thousands of enemies. Over the top violence just adds to the fun of doing it. You want game-play to be fast paced and your blows to have maximum impact. That said, I never thought the original had any issues with the lack of it. Is the sequel much tamer in that regard, or it's just another case of gamertard self entitled whining?

 

[Angthoron]

There's not a whole lot of REALLY GRAPHICAL VIOLENCE in BL2 from what I've seen. Sure, there's some, but not a whole lot more than in BL1, maybe just more complex reaction animations (which GASP is actually reflection of gore on gameplay, even if in very minor ways)

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't even notice stuff like this, or the lack of it. Staring at blood splatters was interesting when I was 10, now I couldn't even tell you which games have them because it doesn't even register with me. Unless it's relevant to gameplay (e.g. tracking someone by the blood from a wound) I could care less.

 

[Gord]

Imaginary violence is satisfying when done right (Cleanly sawed off limbs falling off of enemies no matter how you attack them in Fallout 3 is a prime example of how not to do it). The lack of gore bothers me just as much.

Striking the right balance is definitely important.
Incidentally Fallout 3/NV are about the only games where I installed a blood patch, as the censored versions removed some effects (disintegration of laser/plasma), fire-effects of flamer, and almost any reaction of enemies to being shot, which made the whole experience somewhat surreal and unsatisfying.
On the other hand I then had to use a mod to tune the gore to somewhat sensible levels, as the other extreme wasn't that good either.

 

[crufty]

i find ragdoll way more disturbing then gore

 

[gromit]

 

[Oriebam]

Compare and contrast with modern games, where splatter is nothing more than flavour sprinkle for the most part (Binary Domain seems to have been the only one that had dismemberment actually influence gameplay in my recent memory, but I don't play console either so maybe there's like a shitton more of such).

Modern games has this uncanny valley effect when it comes to volience and gore too... It is OK in older Cartoonish like games and in RL but not in titles like F3, FNV, Skyrim etc...

how bout resident evil and the already mentioned dead space

of course you're not killing humans in them, but I'm p. sure there is one where you do

 

[DalekFlay]

I see a certain difference between the almost-comical and somewhat detached gore and gibbing in older games, and the more in-your-face and up-close-and-personal effects in newer games.

In some sense though more realistic gore is better in my opinion, for averting desensitizing. When you make violence funny or over-the-top it makes people disregard it's true impact. When you show someone take a gut shot that mixes his piss and shit with his blood and pours his bowels out on the concrete while he lays there contemplating the pointlessness of his existence you just might turn some stomachs.

I've always thought the whole "endless death and destruction but no blood = PG13" thing to be missing the fucking point. That desensitizing fantasy should be the true NC17.

 

[Gord]

But if every shooter does the realism-shtick, won't that lead to the exactly same kind of desensitizing, only this time for more realistic violence?

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS I AGREE WITH A FEW BROS ABOVE VIOLENCE NEEDS TO BE IN LINE WITH THE GAME

FOR THE MOST PART IF I AM SHOOTING SOMEONE I WANT TO SEE PEOPLE GETTING FUCKED UP BUT IT DEPENDS ON THE ATMOSPHERE OF THE GAME

 

[DraQ]

I was thinking about uncanny valley and desensitization, and came to the following conclusion:

The problem with modern gory games is that presentation is not in line with overall maturity. It's fun to go over the top with roflslaughter in Blood or some modern Doom or DN3D conversion. It's not meant to be serious, so it just puts "laughter" back in slaughter.

However, if you take a modern dudebro game, with supposedly realistic theme (blahblahmilitarysomethingblah), and quite realistic graphics up to and including slitting people's throats, then treat this violence with the same amount of reckless abandon, if only due to gameplay alone (popping about a thousand of moles over the course of few h), then the result simply *must* be jarring to anyone but desensitized psycho fuckwad.

So it's not the violence that's the problem here - it's gameplay.
The uncanny valley effect in this case isn't minor discrepancy between real violence (which most players haven't seen anyway) and it's portrayal, but rather between subconscious expectation of similar care and detail to be present in other aspects, and complete lack of it.

Edit:
It also makes violence feel incredibly forced.

 

[spectre]

Some of my best gaming moments are associated with violence, say Soldier of Fortune, Mortal Kombat 1-2.
Still, dunno if it's old age, or there is a fine line somewhere out there between tasteful gore and forced splatterfest, because when I saw the fatalities from the latest Mortal Kombat on jewtube,
it felt like the guy who designed them was trying too hard.

Carmageddon is a curious case for me, I didn't care about the run over pedestrian thing. I was genuinely more interested in wrecking the other cars , or making a nice head-on collision. It got you a larger time bonus, more money,
and you could sometimes capture the car and use it in the future.
Also, the damage model was pretty decent for the time.
On the other hand, I totally cannot into stuff like Postal, Prototype and the likes (although number 1 had its moments).

I think it's mostly about beating a tough opponent then being able fuck him up real good. Sorta like Mortal Kombat fatality is like saying "good game, mate"
With defenseless victims, it's just not the same, but applying well rendered brutality to someone or something that sorta deserves is pretty satisfying .

A nice example of tasteful violence is One Must Fall 2097. Not only it's a neat fighting game with robots, stats, character development and a freeform combo system, it also has fatalities which look pretty damn satisfying at times
(and also open up various secrets in the game!) . Totally bloodless and PEGI-13, but there's something satisfying in impaling the end boss on the elbow spikes of your Thorn.

 

[Johannes]

I just tried the newest Mortal Kombat briefly. It was just lame, when it comes to violence - the fatalities are ridiculous and take too long, also you have some moves that make a 5-second slo mo scene of over-the-top violence play, stopping the games flow. The original MK I played as a kid was way better in this.

But when you've got a series that people strongly associate with crazy splatter - you're always kinda expected to 1-up the last game in the series in that regard. But this line of thinking easily turns into a caricature of itself with a really misguided focus.

Sure, original MK was really violent especially for its time, but it never felt forced. The fatalities there didn't take noticeably more time than any basic way of finishing people.

 

[DraQ]

With defenseless victims, it's just not the same, but applying well rendered brutality to someone or something that sorta deserves is pretty satisfying .

Well, it's how it works for me as well - I never got into psycho sims like Postal or Carmageddon because the concept just doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Hell, I never got into GTA.

 

[Oriebam]

Sure, original MK was really violent especially for its time, but it never felt forced. The fatalities there didn't take noticeably more time than any basic way of finishing people.

fatalities always were cartoony gore slapstick they're not supposed to be serious business or to be faster than just punching the stunned opponent


I also played the latest MK game briefly

shit felt like it was shipped kinda broken, man...

 

[aris]

Often enough, the arguments in favor are along the lines of immersion, realism (yeah, Fallout 3, very realistic) and personal freedom.
On the other hand it probably goes to show that even today the common rabble average person isn't that different from roman plebeians enjoying some gladiators hacking themselves up at the colloseum.

Huge difference: Seeing a depiction of a fictional cartoon character getting splatted, and actually seeing a real person being splatted in real life.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Spoiler

Witcher 2 did this right atlast game with both tits and blood. Poor Germans, Kwans and Ausies.

Edited to add NSFW warning and spoiler tags so our gaylord mods won't whine.

Stop posting Dragon Age videos

 

[GeorgeWood]

I already tackled this discussion back in '96.

 

[Butcer]

Today's gore and splatter are completely tame compared to some earlier games. Where's the Soldier of Fortune and Carmageddon of today? There's barely any gibbing in games (most FPS games are content with that retarded red mist that dissipates right away), let alone some proper effects like SoF had (guts spilling out, half the skull getting blown off etc.). Fallout 3 and NV have over the top and childish effects, had they been more like Fallout 1 & 2 it could've been glorious.

Yeah, I haven't seen any proper blood and gore like Soldier of Fortune had in modern games. Today, they're just overusing splattery effects that are supposed to look cool and over the top while lacking the satisfying punch of good old gibbing.

Manhunt 1 and 2 were was way way more violent the sol 2, extremly grim no humor torture like eye caugings with shard of glass, castrations, chopping off limbs with amachete ,

ANd yes i did like manhunt 2

 

[Xavier0889]