Gothic Gothic remake from THQ Nordic

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

You can't remake a master piece.

I call bullshit.
There's nothing about Gothic that makes it inherently hard to remake or even improve massively. You "just" need to have a capable team, a clear design goal and be willing to move in the right direction instead of making some highly questionable "modernization".
It's simply highly debatable that this production can boast a check on any of these boxes. And that's putting it mildly.

There would be plenty of ways to improve the combat system by order of magnitudes while staying true to the original intent, for instance (I'd personally pick Sekiro as model, but there are other options) and the production value can only go up, given any barely competent production and a decent budget.

 

[Cryomancer]

ITT people pretending Gothic had extensive dialogue options and didn't have one of the worst UIs ever designed.

I can navigate in UI with Mouse & Keyboard easily. Gothic remake in other hands is awull for M&K. DkS prepare to die is less awful than it.

-the crime system is broken

You are in a penal colony. Nobody cares if you looted a nobody's house. If you try to loot Gomez castle, then is far more risky. Do you expect that a penal colony would have the same laws of a city?

-combat is silly

Same as G2 and the lack of Risen 3 ballet animations is a huge plus. Please. explain why is silly

-the factions don't matter all that much

Matters a lot. My Templar and my magician run was completely different experiences.

-the main quest isn't as good as the side quests and other activities in the world

Is a matter of taste.

-you can't properly solo as a mage

We really played the same game????

Be a magician on Gothic 1 is far easier than on Gothic 2.

• Damaging spells - Deals far less damage. On G1, most fire spells has a damage/mana ratio of 30 and some like Storm of Fire, of 50. 500 damage for 10 mana. I an not joking, on G2, most spells has a damage/mana consumption ratio of about 4 and 6. And getting life is far easier than mana.
  
• Summoning spells - Now are available on runes, not only on scrolls. Costs much more mana, has a very limited duration and are not good as G1.
  
• Transformation spells - The best ones. You can trivialize the chapter one by purchasing a single scroll
  
• Other spells - Death to undead got nerfed, no longer insta destroy any undead, fear works in dragons and can trivialize dragon fights, ice block is the best spell...

Also, you have only one choice if you wanna use magic. Xardas who teaches circle 6 on previous game? He can't teach circle 1 for no reason. The water mages? You can't join then. The unique way is via the boring Monastery. Some quests also goes against what i expect from a Lawful Good servant of innos, like putting a guy to sleep to steal a weapon and use against a golem. A novice who does that should be expelled. What if the novice fails and the weapon falls into Seeker's hands? Each faction on previous game has a different approach to magic. Fire magicians are more cleric like in D&D therms, water mages more druidistic like(you can see how the Oath of fire and water are different) and the sleeper camp is more chaotic/evil like. More akin to Warlocks on 3.5e(not 5e)

Gothic 2 NorT was the hardest experience to me as a mage. Gothic 1 was not that hard. Sure, my templar run was a little easier but i pick G1 magic over G2 magic any day.

 

[Abu Antar]

They could still make this decent, even if it won't come close to the original. My first opinion of the game was really bad with the explosion. I thought to myself "am I playing Uncharted"? Combat needs to be revised, obviously. I don't think it fits at all, and you can win most fights without losing health. Of course, I tend to fuck up at times, but there are enough consumables for it not to matter all that much. You got to face tougher opponents as you progressed, but once I got a hang of it (long time, no play For Honor), I was never in any real danger. The problem is that this type of combat is exciting in a MP game because you never know what will happen. Here, it's just not as fun.

Visually, the graphics are decent and I can accept the look of environments, monsters and humans, but not the post processing. I lowered it as much as I could. One small opinion, the main character looks like a douche. Music was good and I didn't mind the voice actors.

There were some stupid moments in the writing, but all in all, I wasn't really expecting anything great from a re-imagination. It could have been worse.

I could see myself buying this product with a few changes here and there. In the survey, I wrote that they should try to make the combat feel more Gothic and not a copy-paste of For Honor.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

You are in a penal colony. Nobody cares if you looted a nobody's house.

Except the guards literally say they are going to stop you if try, yet they never to anything.
And apparentely none of the NPC's fucking care that I'm literally robbing everything they own IN FRONT OF THEM.

Please. explain why is silly

It's both very clunky and janky, and doesn't have much depth to it.

Matters a lot.

Only for skills, they have no impact on how the main quest progresses (only a few different lines here and there).

Is a matter of taste.

No it isn't.
Quests are also an objective aspect.
Specially if said main quests devolve too often into fecth quests.

We really played the same game????

I didn't say you can't, I you can't do it properly.
Because you can't really start the game has a mage since it's not very viable with so little spells. So the player always delves into other combat skills.

 

[Outlander]

And apparentely none of the NPC's fucking care that I'm literally robbing everything they own IN FRONT OF THEM.

You must be thinking of another game, in Gothic when you enter someone else's house and you're seen, you'll be called on it and given warning. Don't heed the warning and it's battle.

It's both very clunky and janky, and doesn't have much depth to it.

Such bullshit is typical from someone who didn't play the game long enough to train sword skills.

 

[Danikas]

This looks like shit.

 

[toro]

It's not Gothic without KaiRo's score.

 

[Cryomancer]

And apparentely none of the NPC's fucking care that I'm literally robbing everything they own IN FRONT OF THEM.

When you are too strong and influential to then to stop.

Only for skills, they have no impact on how the main quest progresses (only a few different lines here and there).

But G1 gives way more freedom to your character than G2. In this aspects.

Specially if said main quests devolve too often into fecth quests.

Some main quests are fetch quests like picking healing herbs for y'berrion BUT the same can be said to Gothic 2.

Because you can't really start the game has a mage since it's not very viable with so little spells. So the player always delves into other combat skills.

In EVERY PB game, you can't beat using spells only. And you need to work to get magic.

• Gothic 1, you can get magic on 3 camps. Novice of Swamp Camp is the fastest way but restricts you to circle 4. You can also become a fire(chap 2) and water mage(chap 4) and even a necromancer(Xardas's tower) in end game
• On Gothic 2, you can only be a fire mage and spells are so little mana efficient and nerfed that you will have to pop mana potions after each encounter.
  
• On Gothic 3, you can at lv 4 learn Lightning Bolt BUT you still require time to learn spells.
  
• On Elex - You need to join berserker to earn magic
  
• On Risen 1, you need to join in a monastery and do tons of fetch quests
  
• In Risen 2, only voodoo magic that requires you to side with natives
  
• On Risen 3, only after joining a faction like Guardians, Demon Hunters or Natives, you can learn spells and

PB world is not a very high magical setting. Is more high magical setting than Conan? Yes, but i don't expect the average nobody be able to use fireballs on PB games like i don't expect the average medieval peasant to be able to make gunpowder and read IRL. You can like or dislike, but PB games is a game where you need to work your way up to learn magic.

 

[Pink Eye]

The teaser is 70% positive. LOL!

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

-"Simple road in the hills is not enough. We need to add bigass ancient ruins!" Thought a horrible developer. And the second one clapped.
- Protagonist comments on everything and it super irritating.
-They completely messed up the story. In the original you get a scroll and you are told to give it to the Fire Mages. Now you may not even notice who gives you the scroll and only Diego identifies the seal as belonging to the Fire Mages.
-The voice actors are utter newbies. They make amateur mistakes such as pausing before each word. Noobs.
-There is no iconic "Welcome to the colony. [Punch]" line. How the stupid devs are?
-Dialogue wheels are in....
- It doesn't make sense for Diego to have a negative opinion about other camps.
- I hate how our character takes most of the screen space.
-Diego motivation for not being interested in protagonist name seems nonsensical in this version. He still end up calling protagonist rookie, so rather than making a nickname, it would be quicker for him to ask for a name.
- Bloom is hurting my eyes. Please help! The whole thing looks like what you would get if you gave some HQ assets to people without a taste, but with a lot of filters.
- Old camp redesigned armor looks worse. Not horrible, but worse.
- I don't like that you have to do a quest before leaving the starting area, but I liked that there is an alternative solution to that quest.
- Remember when at lower levels you could get beaten up by housewife? Now you can defeat an old camp guard
-The story about the pedant worked up to the point when the Cayden motivation was revealed. It doesn't make sense to kill your business partners, acquiring and selling those goods is a work for more people than one.
- After you spare life of the guy who fought and killed his companion, you can't ask him about that fight. Yeah....
- Why I can't just show the guy the dice as a proof of killing and keep them, rather than to give it to him? Makes no sense, false dilemma.
- I have done the sword quest. Only to discover that the corpse with a sword that was not lootable doing the nigh, became lootable.. Which is good because I didn't get the sword in a sword quest....
- Liked how you can either give the pendant back to win favour or use it to loot a special place. Hope there are consequences for making a new friend.
- Killed 3 wolfs at the same time..... With ease.... without even really having a feel for the system....
- You can acquire animal trophies without having a skill.....
- This game is so muh modern, so muh improved, but won't let you slide when climbing down the ladder
-Overhead hp UI is an abomination
- When I am close to Diego, the game forces me to shelter my weapon. This means you won't be able to beat him up.
- Haven't gotten to Old Camp and Diego is already telling me how special I am.
- Remember that hidden area at the top of the mountain you have to climb a cliff to get to? There is now an elevator taking you there, just to make sure everyone finds it. I kid you not. Why would anyone built such a thing? How is it powered? Muh mystery.
- Lets make massive tree roots on the ground, but let's forget about adding big trees those roots could belong to.
- Hate shaky cam during combat
- Diego for some reason behaves as he would know the player for ages and he had a proof I was very capable. He was a good guy in the original, but in this time the thing seems forced.
- The game wants me to kill snapper. In the tutorial with 1 level character. What a decline.... Snappers should be fearsome enemies, you run from most of the game.
- There are wagons full of rotten meat everywhere. Do developers know how valuable a meat is?
- The idea of Old Camp gates being closed when the beacon is on was stupid.
- Running depleting stamina is a horrible idea.

The whole thing should be scrapped.

 

[JDR13]

More like a padawan edgelord than a Jedi Master.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I did their survey and send them my post as "Please tell us anything else you would like us to read/consider?". I slightly edited it, but someone will get upset when reading it, I am sure. Good.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

More like a padawan edgelord than a Jedi Master.

Sorry. Not only a remake is not needed, but it also failed in every conceivable way. It didn't improve a single thing, but broken most of what it touched.

 

[Cryomancer]

I an not against a remake and changes as longs ALL CHANGES are optional. IE - I can use the fast and brutal combat over this 2 minute to kill a weakling BS, i can use the traditional dialog instead of this dialog wheel, i can use the traditional magic instead of whatever they do with magic, etc

I did their survey and send them my post as "Please tell us anything else you would like us to read/consider?". I slightly edited it, but someone will get upset when reading it, I am sure. Good.

You nailed many points. Will post in a place with more visibility

edit . Posted your post here https://steamcommunity.com/app/950670/discussions/0/3145133021635977487/?ctp=9

 

[Daze]

More like a padawan edgelord than a Jedi Master.

Sorry. Not only a remake is not needed, but it also failed in every conceivable way. It didn't improve a single thing, but broken most of what it touched.

Blatant lie. You can kill meatbugs easily now.

 

[hexer]

~ Quinn
-- zepp
//Zyddie

Holy trinity of autistic handwritten signatures

I checked Zyddie's Steam profile.
He praised Fallout 4, didn't criticize one thing about it
https://steamcommunity.com/id/zyddie/recommended/377160/

Spoiler

 

[Pink Eye]

In my experience if a developer asks the community for help on developing a product. It mostly likely means they don't have a coherent vision, or rather they don't know what they're doing. If the developer that is working on the remake did indeed play the original, as they so sayeth they did, then they wouldn't need advice from random online strangers. If they are as passionate as they say they are, then they should immediately know what works and what doesn't.

Anyways, this is some quality A entertainment right here.

Also, by the way, it was quite hilarious reading them hype Skyrim and Witcher as good standards for modern gameplay, LOL!

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Put your glasses on.

Nothing will be wrong

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

Put your glasses on.

Nothing will be wrong

Tell me what, Tell me what, Tell me what you want

 

[Murk]

Well, I beat it, and got 21/29 of the achievements apparently. Left long ass feedback with harsh criticism of the following:

• Interface (console focus is obvious and bizarre why sometimes Q exits or why ESC exits or why you have to hold a button down to do something; not to mention the stupid markers)
• Dialog (particularly main character)
• Completely different feel, atmosphere, style, and aesthetic (putting aside graphics, I mean things like Diego looking like a pirate captain and talking like he's in a neo-shakespearean play)
• Combat (please ditch this For Honor style QTE and go with something better; even if it's "simpler".
• Bizarre FOV and no ability to zoom out; over the shoulder forced view which I dislike (this was in Elex too, but if you zoom out it goes to center, so you get both versions)
• Bad action movie introduction sequence that's very predictable and boring -- and can't be skipped
• Invisible walls and limits on what you can jump on/climb (can't enter water)

I concluded with "You should make a new IP with inspiration from Gothic, this compares horribly to the original game and just isn't a Gothic game."

It's not the worst thing I've ever played, but it's a horrible Gothic game, and it took active effort on my part to keep going through it because of just how triggered/butthurt it made me.

For what it's worth, I didn't mind the following:

• Voice Acting (differentiating from the written dialog, just the performances I mean -- and Orry had a few nice lines)
• The additional areas and quests spread throughout, albeit they are too linear and hand-holding, so while okay in this limited dose -- if this is how EVERYTHING was it'd be infuriating. Especially since it means it would limit replayability very harshly.
• Variations on the main plot (the attack on the lift I mean; I dislike that most of the people seem... uhh "nicer" than the simple cold and effective intro of Bullit decking you in the face.
• That there are multiple ends to small quests like with the pendant and that you can heal him in multiple ways
• Likewise, cooking / luring monsters and the implication of more crafting

The game's textures never loaded in for me even after changing settings and restarting a few times, so I can't really judge the look other than the rough style (leather straps on everything). I just played it with no textures and so can't really judge the graphical quality, but the screenshots/video looks like AAA wannabe trash. I prefer clean and crisp above all.

Anyway, if this was a new IP i'd rate it a 6/10 "promising, but needs major reworks on certain things and less AAA-wannabe BS -- combat needs major overhaul". As a Gothic game it's a 1/10 -- non-combat music is nice.

More than anything else, this seems like a very extensive fan-made total conversion for another game instead of a real G1 remake. I don't get why when at a time where Age of Empires 2 DE, Pathologic 2, Warcraft 3 Reforged, and even Starcraft 2 HD we are given this style of remake instead of a proper remake that keeps the core feel, style, and gameplay of the original and only updates the interface and graphics.

 

[Cryomancer]

Reading they steam post

"Don´t just write "this sucks" give us in-depth and feedback that is useful, so if you believe something is not in line with the gothic style give us a reason and explain why you think so." https://steamcommunity.com/app/950670/discussions/0/3145133021635977487/?ctp=9

Do really they need a in depth explanation why the game is not in line with the gothic style?

Anyway, i hope that they will listen to the community instead of do like Jay Wilson did...

 

[Nines_Anarch]

Put your grasses on.

Nothing will be wong

Tell me what, Tell me what, Tell me what you want

Fixed it.

 

[Murk]

I forgot to mention one giant moment of derp, though it can be easily fixed, is that in the middle of a fight you can just pause the game via the inventory screen -- spam healing items with no animation -- then go back to spamming attack.

The combat system feels absolutely terrible in general, the idea of a "duel" might be okay against humanoids but against monsters/animals it just felt stupid; in the end I found it more effective to just run up close and spam fast attack. The view/angle gives really poor concept of spatial awareness in general since you can't just pan the camera around to see better when locked on, but eh.

Anyway, very mad; still grinding my teeth; ass is thoroughly blasted.

 

[Metro]

Played about an hour. This shit is beyond redemption.

 

[Cryomancer]

He praised Fallout 4, didn't criticize one thing about it

OMG. That is awful. At least he liked M&B https://steamcommunity.com/id/zyddie/recommended/?p=3

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Anyone here has a video of the nameless hero fighting pack of wild animals? How many hours takes to kill a pack of wolves with this sponge for honor combat?