Decline [GQ was right] I am a proud member of the Patch Hater Club

[†††]

News flash! Analogy on the internet surprisingly found not to be 1:1. Stay tuned for more on this one of a kind story as it breaks.

Either make good analogies or construct an actual argument next time then.

 

[flyingjohn]

Old games were buggy and broken as hell.Any speed run shows they were at the level of modern Bethesda games.
The internet wasn't a thing back then.If it was,there would be weekly patches.

Troika didn't fail because the games were buggy,they failed because the majority didn't want to play those games anymore.
Consoles and action stuff were the norm,not some niche rpg's.
Just look at system shock 2,it wasn't broken in any way,it just failed because the main competition was half life.

I swear,the codex has this rose tainted look at some elements of old games.Can anybody really believe Interplay was this friendly publisher who allowed games to be shipped when they were finished?

Movies/tv shows allegory is stupid.One is a interactive medium,the others aren't.

 

[Zombra]

News flash! Analogy on the internet surprisingly found not to be 1:1. Stay tuned for more on this one of a kind story as it breaks.

Either make good analogies or construct an actual argument next time then.

ZERO analogies are 1:1. That's why they're analogies and not just the thing being talked about. That's why the word "analogy" exists. If that idea is too sophisticated for you, just stop reading and stop talking.

It's not some big revelation that movies and games aren't the exact same thing, and no one here didn't know that. The point stands that many creative works have been rereleased to the good.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

News flash! Analogy on the internet surprisingly found not to be 1:1. Stay tuned for more on this one of a kind story as it breaks.

No, I think the analogy is interesting in the context of the streaming industry.

For example I expect to see, sooner or later, a "patched" version of "Gone with the Wind", where the black actors are re-colored as white, in order to not offend modern sensibilities.
Also I am waiting for the equivalent of fan-made mods, for example to restore the n-word in patched old movies.

 

[†††]

ZERO analogies are 1:1. That's why they're analogies and not just the thing being talked about. That's why the word "analogy" exists. If that idea is too sophisticated for you, just stop reading and stop talking.

Just because no analogy is perfect doesn't mean you can use the shittest one. Director's Cut and the likes are akin to GOTY editions of video games with added DLCs and such, it has nothing to do with the theatrical cut being buggy and wrong. Either way you're playing apologia for anti-consumerist practices.

 

[Zombra]

Either way you're playing apologia for anti-consumerist practices.

What I was doing was answering a clarifying question from the OP from when the analogy (not even my analogy btw) first came up. The OP seemed perfectly happy to engage in the conversation but you decided to turn it into angry nitpicking.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Troika didn't fail because the games were buggy

Cool story bro.

Publishers aren’t interested in games from developers that consistently turn out B titles. Unfortunately, although our games had depth and vision, we were never able to release a game that had been thoroughly tested and rid of bugs. The large quantity of errors in our product automatically rendered them B titles.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Because buggy releases and patches didn't exist before the X360 era lol.

OT is a fag.

 

[thesheeep]

rusty_shackleford That's some insanely dumb take, even for you.

You are just lumping everything together from normal patches that always were a thing in gaming as the (technical!) complexity of games went up a lot to stuff like live services like Destiny 2 that have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

But you know what's funny?
I still agree that modern game devs are a lot lazier than they used to be.

But that's mostly because they want normal working hours, decent payment and some free time.
I rather have developers that are actually happy, healthy and have a life besides their work than the lifeless basement dwellers of the 90s slaving their souls away for a dream.

I'm glad, really, absolutely glad, that we have the current infrastructure that allows devs to just throw things out into EA and patching and hammering away at it until it is done.
Because if that was not the case, we wouldn't even have 10% of the games we have now. And those that we would have would all be different reskins of Call Of Duty and Mario 64...

You can still find more than enough indies doing the basement slaving thing out of their own free will and sometimes that does result in a gem.
And sometimes that results in the devs selling their house and producing a complete blunder that is vaguely cyberpunk themed...

 

[Roguey]

it has nothing to do with the theatrical cut being buggy and wrong

People don't bring it up a lot, but the Star Wars Special Editions and the director's/final cut of Blade Runner didn't just make story changes and add elements, they also cleaned up a lot of continuity/filming errors that most normies would never notice but were certainly driving Lucas/Scott mad.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

@rusty_shackleford That's some insanely dumb take, even for you.

you thinking it's dumb means it's definitely right

 

[J1M]

rusty_shackleford That's some insanely dumb take, even for you.

You are just lumping everything together from normal patches that always were a thing in gaming as the (technical!) complexity of games went up a lot to stuff like live services like Destiny 2 that have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

But you know what's funny?
I still agree that modern game devs are a lot lazier than they used to be.

But that's mostly because they want normal working hours, decent payment and some free time.
I rather have developers that are actually happy, healthy and have a life besides their work than the lifeless basement dwellers of the 90s slaving their souls away for a dream.

I'm glad, really, absolutely glad, that we have the current infrastructure that allows devs to just throw things out into EA and patching and hammering away at it until it is done.
Because if that was not the case, we wouldn't even have 10% of the games we have now. And those that we would have would all be different reskins of Call Of Duty and Mario 64...

You can still find more than enough indies doing the basement slaving thing out of their own free will and sometimes that does result in a gem.
And sometimes that results in the devs selling their house and producing a complete blunder that is vaguely cyberpunk themed...

I would rather have games worth playing and tales of heroic programming efforts.

 

[flyingjohn]

Troika didn't fail because the games were buggy

Cool story bro.

Publishers aren’t interested in games from developers that consistently turn out B titles. Unfortunately, although our games had depth and vision, we were never able to release a game that had been thoroughly tested and rid of bugs. The large quantity of errors in our product automatically rendered them B titles.

I am a publisher looking to make money in 2001. GTA 3 was released and selling like hotcakes.
I am going to invest in a obscure crpg game because it isn't extremely buggy.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Troika didn't fail because the games were buggy

Cool story bro.

Publishers aren’t interested in games from developers that consistently turn out B titles. Unfortunately, although our games had depth and vision, we were never able to release a game that had been thoroughly tested and rid of bugs. The large quantity of errors in our product automatically rendered them B titles.

I am a publisher looking to make money in 2001. GTA 3 was released and selling like hotcakes.
I am going to invest in a obscure crpg game because it isn't extremely buggy.

you can just admit you posted bullshit with no facts to back it up instead of being butthurt

 

[flyingjohn]

Troika didn't fail because the games were buggy

Cool story bro.

Publishers aren’t interested in games from developers that consistently turn out B titles. Unfortunately, although our games had depth and vision, we were never able to release a game that had been thoroughly tested and rid of bugs. The large quantity of errors in our product automatically rendered them B titles.

I am a publisher looking to make money in 2001. GTA 3 was released and selling like hotcakes.
I am going to invest in a obscure crpg game because it isn't extremely buggy.

you can just admit you posted bullshit with no facts to back it up instead of being butthurt

Or you can tell me about those mythical publishers who were selective about only a+ crpg's for the years 2000-2004?
Here is a hint,only one dev was insane enough to make most of its library crpg's. That dev went under.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I would rather have games worth playing and tales of heroic programming efforts.

nope, all you get are terrible, unfinished, buggy games that take 8 years to make by people who break down crying because they're asked to do their job

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Or you can tell me about those mythical publishers who were selective about only a+ crpg's for the years 2000-2004?
Here is a hint,only one dev was insane enough to make most of its library crpg's. That dev went under.

so you're saying you know more about Troika than one of its cofounders?
keep digging

 

[thesheeep]

Or you can tell me about those mythical publishers who were selective about only a+ crpg's for the years 2000-2004?
Here is a hint,only one dev was insane enough to make most of its library crpg's. That dev went under.

so you're saying you know more about Troika than one of its cofounders?
keep digging

Because people who were involved in something are totally unbiased and never full of bullshit...

Yeah.
Keep digging.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Or you can tell me about those mythical publishers who were selective about only a+ crpg's for the years 2000-2004?
Here is a hint,only one dev was insane enough to make most of its library crpg's. That dev went under.

so you're saying you know more about Troika than one of its cofounders?
keep digging

Because people who were involved in something are totally unbiased and never full of bullshit...

Yeah.
Keep digging.

I'm going to assume he knew more about his game development company than you who has never developed a game in his life.

 

[thesheeep]

I'm going to assume he knew more about his game development company than you who has never developed a game in his life.

I at least studied game development, 3D programming, have worked close to the industry for many years and known many people within (somewhat localized to Germany, but whatever).
What's your excuse?

Besides, that argument is as nonsensical as saying you can't talk about football if you've never played football.
You don't need to be a cook to talk about food.

But it's a good sign that you never had an argument to begin with and just did your usual useless shtick of running against windmills.

 

[J1M]

Or you can tell me about those mythical publishers who were selective about only a+ crpg's for the years 2000-2004?
Here is a hint,only one dev was insane enough to make most of its library crpg's. That dev went under.

so you're saying you know more about Troika than one of its cofounders?
keep digging

Because people who were involved in something are totally unbiased and never full of bullshit...

Yeah.
Keep digging.

I'm going to assume he knew more about his game development company than you who has never developed a game in his life.

While true, you can't discuss Bloodlines being a flop without mentioning that it was released at the same time as Half-Life 2, which was a terrible idea for any game in any genre.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Besides, that argument is as nonsensical as saying you can't talk about football if you've never played football.
You don't need to be a cook to talk about food.

"the coach said his plan failed because ..."
random fan: "NO HE'S WRONG AND I'M RIGHT!"

that random fan is you btw

 

[flyingjohn]

I'm going to assume he knew more about his game development company than you who has never developed a game in his life.

And that was the problem.Troika internal failures were only one part of a bigger puzzle of the changing landscape of gaming back then.
Their final effort in securing a license for a game series that would not even make a dent in the market just shows that.Also the failure of the console versions of fallout would have made any publisher even more vary of putting money into it.

Fallout 3 from Troika would have been a damn good game and their biggest financial failure.
Fallout 3 from Bethesda was a game made by a popular company where fans will buy stuff regardless of the ip. So of course it was a hit.

TLDR for rusty:
Troika people never understood the market/gaming landscape and constantly made wrong financial decisions.Their view on things outside the company is practically meaningless because of that.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm going to assume he knew more about his game development company than you who has never developed a game in his life.

wahhh I'm wrong and hate that you have actual proof that I am

ok

 

[Humbaba]

Ok wait so are we discussing the "games as a service" topic or whether or not games are buggier these days than before? Because those two do not overlap all that much.