Vapourware Greed Monger Insider Thread (drama inside)

[EJoe]

James, as another developer looking at this thread -

I thought you were senior developer, capable of pulling off making the back-end server-side parts. Instead, you not even junior developer. You are rookie, amateur hour.

I wrote down basics (see page 14) and basic MMO fundamental infrastructure was not done. Any developer worth is salt would know this.

I wouldn't even pay you anything to do any work-for hire services. You'd better work for free until you learn how to make Pong, Tetris and simple games before you start boasting to others you make MMO.

I'm not ready to call you a scam artist, but if you continue to go where you are going, you know where your reputation is going next.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

lol ok EJoe, and I guess just anyone can create their own MMO Framework and have it successfully being used in a Lobby based Multiplayer game right? lol Some people just really make me laugh.

 

[Intrigued007]

James, you are a complete mess. You're now trying to split your attention between Greed Monger and your Zombie Survival Game. In three years, you haven't even been able to deliver a playable alpha to your backers, yet you're already talking about seeking funding for another project. You can't even fulfill legal obligations that you have to your backers regarding physical items that were promised during your original Kickstarter campaign for Greed Monger.

"Do you want us to continue with GM with all of it's negative PR and History or do you want us to work on coming up with a completely new Game that includes all of the features of our KickStarter and where all of the KickStarter Pledges are full filled but that doesn't have the negative PR and Long History?"

Why even bother asking your community, if this is going to be your response?

"The Zombie Survival game WILL be made regardless of what is decided in this poll. Like I said that is not up for debate here. And I understand it's not going to interest everyone but Zombie Survival Games are popular enough that it should be able to at least start paying for some of GM or other Large Scale MMO."

This is a complete slap in the face to the community you claim to serve. Every poster on the thread regarding the future of Greed Monger has stated that none of them are interested in another "zombie survival game", yet you continue to insist that you will develop it, regardless of their feedback. You are a fraud and scam artist, just the same as Jason Appleton. People like you should not be allowed to seek crowd sourcing for funding, as nothing will ever come out of the money people pledge to you. Three years later, and you still can't even deliver on the promises you made for Greed Monger. Furthermore, seeking funding for your Zombie Survival Game and using those funds for Greed Monger seems awfully shady and backhanded, especially for the poor victims who decide to actually give money to your new IP.

And I'd hardly call what you've created an "MMO Framework that successfully uses a large lobby based multiplayer game" since no one can actually play your game. And no, your small QA team doesn't count as an MMO-level population. You've promises thousands of parcels of land for hundreds of people, and only a miniscule percentage of those people have even seen the game yet.

Regardless if you change the name of Greed Monger, the negative PR and reputation you've built (BY YOURSELF) will follow you wherever you go. No amount of spin, name changing, or company name changing will ever erase the long history JAMES PROCTOR has for being a liar, scam artist, and poor project manager. You choose to work along side Jason Appleton, even after being warned that it was a scam. You continued to lie throughout development of the game. You failed to deliver even basic promises made to the backers. You've continued to deceive your backers, even after acquiring the project for yourself. You're the one whose now chosen to move on from Greed Monger to a new IP, not your backers.

Jason Appleton didn't do those things -- You did.

Honestly, Greed Monger will probably never see a playable alpha with the laundry list of features you've promised. However, you shouldn't be allowed to simply pack up and move on based solely on your own feelings. Greed Monger received $100,000 of funding, which should have been more than enough to deliver a playable alpha at the very least. However, you chose to allow Jason Appleton to walk away with those funds that were made for developing Greed Monger, rather than fighting for them to be appropriated to the game as promised. In the meantime, I'm sure the internet won't forget the part you played in swindling people out of their money and leaving them completely empty-handed.

 

[InnitBruv]

James, how long have you been coding/making games for?
Do you have any fully working game to showcase your skills and/or ability to produce any type of game, let alone an MMO?

 

[GM_JamesPro]

I've been programming for 10+ years. The only type of game I'm interested in are MMOs or Multiplayer games... I have always run into Funding Issues before getting out of the Prototype phase of Development so no I have no finished released games to my name. Not yet anyways.

 

[Angthoron]

I love the twists and turns this thread keeps on taking.

 

[Intrigued007]

James, why are you even bothering asking what your community thinks about Greed Monger's development if you simply plan to abandon Greed Monger to develop your "Zombie Survival Game"? Your backers have all explicitly said they aren't even interested in your (read: any more) Zombie Survival Game/s. In fact, according to the poll, most of them want you to continue developing Greed Monger, not another game.

Is it because you can't actually deliver on any promises you made with Greed Monger? So you've instead just chosen to turn tail and run from your obligations, trying to leave blame of the unfinished project on your community's "decision" to move on. So far, you have 10+ years "experience" in programming, and have absolutely no finished projects (large or small) to show for it, and you're trying to develop a LARGE SCALE MMO/MULTIPLAYER game? That's absurd.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

How many times do I have to say the Zombie Survival Game is a smaller scale Side Project to allow us to complete a game in a shorter amount of time then what a MMO will take and hopefully bring in some much needed Funds. It's NOT GM's replacement if we do in fact decide to create our own IP. It's a Project to allow us to launch a Game in a reasonable time frame, bring in some funds, and test our Framework we will be using for GM in a real world application. So really this isn't the Game being built FOR the GM Community... Yes we are offering it to them for free for those who are interested in this type of Game but it's NOT for them...

 

[Intrigued007]

I didn't ask for an explanation on why you're trying to start a new project, James. Please read again. We can all summize that you're trying to start a new project due to your overwhelming inability to complete any of your current projects or any of your previous projects. It's just easier to start again, right?

Why bother asking your community about what they think about Greed Monger's development, if you simple plan to abandon Greed Monger to develop your new "Zombie Survival Game"?

It's really a complete slap in the face. You ask in the first post what they think, and not one page in, you tell them you don't care what they have to say.

You should really take the advice given here and on other forums. You need to walk away from both Greed Monger and the public view on the internet. Right now, if you were to seek funding for another project, the internet would laugh you back into the womb. If you really want to make a new project, do it, but don't show it off, don't talk about it, and don't even mention it until it is 100% complete and ready for launch. All you've done with Greed Monger is talk yourself into a laundry list of promises you (and everyone else) knows that you'll never be able to fulfill. Until you have something complete to show, that you didn't just rip off of the asset store, stop. Everything.

IF you seek to prove people wrong, do it. Finishing something. ANYTHING.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

What the hell again YOUR freaking missing the point... The post on GM's forum asking the community what they thought NEVER had anything to do with the Zombie Survival Game. The ONLY reason it was brought up was because some one asked about funding and I told them we were creating a side Project to fund the development of our larger projects. The Zombie Survival Game IS the Side Project. It's NOT a replacement! GM or our own unique IP will still be made... So why bother to ask the community because we want to know what they think we should do with GM. It's pretty simple. Should we continue Developing GM or should we create our own Unique IP... Where the Zombie Game is concerned I don't care it's NOT for them... The Zombie Game will have it's own little community of people who enjoy that type of game. What I DO care about is what their thoughts are concerning GM or our own Unique IP...

 

[Intrigued007]

So, really, you're just looking to your community who donated more than $100,000 to simply say "We don't care" so you can vindicate yourself of Greed Monger and the legal obligation you took to fulfill those promises?

Either way, it doesn't look like your community is interested in anything other than Greed Monger.

How are you even going to seek funding for your new game? I don't think you can take donations for a "work" project while receiving disability benefits. You certainly can't profit from it and still draw disability. Since you can't, how do you plan to use those profits to develop Greed Monger in the future? Or are we looking at another tax-payer funded game, like Greed Monger?

 

[InnitBruv]

I've been programming for 10+ years. The only type of game I'm interested in are MMOs or Multiplayer games... I have always run into Funding Issues before getting out of the Prototype phase of Development so no I have no finished released games to my name. Not yet anyways.

Ok, very well.

Have you worked for any gaming company or any other company for that matter, in the current role you have, as a programmer?

I am asking this because one thing is someone playing around with the Unity Engine and coding some bits here and there, and another thing is making a full fledge MMO.

It is like someone who works at a McDonalds making burguers (nothing wrong with that) and roughly knowing how a burguer joint works, then suddenly wanting to run a Michelin starred restaurant as the head chef. Know what I mean?

I find very worrying that according to your own words, the backers will have a game no matter what... well, that is actually NOT ok dude. They backed for that specific game, with those specific traits and perks and what you and Joel are planning to do, is switch to a Survival Zombie game and think that will fulfill the promises you all made.
That is not OK, James.

If according to what you said, you all spent around 25k dollars in assets. Where did the rest of the money go?

Accountability is not only for accountants, you know. A clear and transparent business communicating with its customers/investors is the best practice you can do.

And I am sorry to say, but not you nor Joel know how to run a company.

Take this criticism in this thread and learn from it, because as it is now, your reputation in the gaming industry is FUBAR. :/

 

[GM_JamesPro]

wow guys get over the freaking Zombie Survival Game... How many times do I have to say that it has no impact on GM's future other then potentially providing us with some funding. The Zombie Survival Game is a Non-Issue. It's a SIDE Freaking Project. Why are you guys unable to grasp what that means it doesn't mean that development on GM is ending. I have said repeatedly that the Zombie Survival Game is NOT meant for the GM Community some in the community may like Zombie Survival Games other may not... They were sold on the ideas of GM and no matter what form it takes THAT is what we will provide for them. The Zombie Survival Game is NOT meant to fulfill the KickStarter promises.

As for where the other money went your guess is as good as mine. I have no idea. I had NO access to the money when GM was under Jason's Control and according to Jason the money is gone. I have added up everything I received, Licenses we bought, Server hosting for the 3 years, and even spoke to a number of the paid members of the team to find out what they got and we were only able to account for about $20,000. Jason was supposed to give us a listing of how the money was used and he failed to do so. But regardless Jason is STILL responsible for everything that happened before GM was signed over to us so if you want to know where the money went then demand an answer from him concerning it.

 

[Intrigued007]

How are you unable to understand that the problem with your SIDE project is that it will take more TIME to develop, TIME you WONT be spending on GREED MONGER. The game YOU now have LEGAL obligations to produce and provide your backers with the promises you've made for the past three years. You are three years in on Greed Monger, and still have absolutely NOTHING to give to your backers. You are ONE person. Your DEVELOPMENT team is ONE person (and NO, your QA backers dont count as "team members"). If you don't see how that's a fundamental problem for GREED MONGER, you're far more short sighted than anyone could have ever guessed.

Your backers have every right to be upset and pissed over your SIDE project ... You've strung them along for three years, and given them absolutely NOTHING in return. You, however, have received over $100,000 in backers dollars, letting the original owner walk away with over $70,000, and you yourself leaving with $20,000+. It's not their fault that you allowed Jason Appleton to walk away with the remainder of the game's funds. It's your own fault that game has no funding left. If you were truly interested in creating the game, you wouldn't have simply allowed Jason to walk away with all the cash. You threw him a life preserver, and instead you are now the one holding the bag of responsibility to Greed Monger's backers.

I'm not even certain what stipulations the contract you signed with Appleton had, but you could also be legally obligated to fulfill the promises you made about Kickstarter to HIM. If that's the case, it wouldn't surprise me if he took you to court over the incident, since you're now the one directly responsible for fulfilling those promises.

You could have easily just walked away from Greed Monger, and created a new project without the negative PR of Jason Appleton, the missing money, or Greed Monger. Instead, you chose to take $20,000 of assets for yourself. Along with that, the "community" you built through Greed Monger in order to plug your new "Zombie Survival Game" in hopes that they would help you fund that as well.

If you do decide to go along with your plan to develop yet ANOTHER new project, it's going to be YEARS before it ever even sees the light of day. By that time, most of the Greed Monger community will have long forgone the idea of the game ever actually releasing. Which is likely what you're hoping for; however, it still doesn't relieve you from your LEGAL obligations to fulfill the original kickstarter promises you've made to the backers (or possibly even JASON APPLETON at this point). Never mind the fact that you can't actually receive funding for the new project directly, since you're still on disability ...

 

[InnitBruv]

Anyone with access to some legal advice, can enlighten us if there is any legal course that the backers can make?

No, I am not a backer, I never gamble with IRL money, but I am very curious to know if Jason and/or JamesP & co, can be taken to the courts over this Kickstarter thing.

I mean, according to some posts here, it feels that they got away scot free and only need to show they made an "effort" to produce a game, in order for KS to be satisfied.

Any in-house lawyer or attorney that can help us with some info on the legal grounds for this ?

 

[Andnjord]

Please carry on.

Any in-house lawyer or attorney that can help us with some info on the legal grounds for this ?

Azrael the cat

 

[Intrigued007]

According to kickstater itself, under their new policies:

"When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers. At the same time, backers must understand that Kickstarter is not a store. When you back a project, you’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised. If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backers. For more information, see Section 4 of our Terms of Use. "

"When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

• they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
• they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
• they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
• they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
• they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers."

However, Greed Monger was crated before October of 2014, when Kickstarter amended the agreement. I don't think there's any legal recourse the backers have in terms of state laws, but I'm sure if the backers make enough of a stink about it, they could find some sort of personal legal recourse against James Proctor. Jason Appleton might also have James Proctor under a binding contract to fulfill the original Kickstarter promises, in which case, Jason Appleton could also take James Proctor to court over the matter. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly certain that there's something that could be done about it through personal courts, if the backers decide to do so.

Even under the old policy, Greed Monger still has an obligation to fulfill their promises to their backers:

• Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
• Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward.

Just to remind you, James Proctor, this is the game you took obligations to create:

Housing/Crafting Features

• Launch Day - (Nothing in the world but Land, Animals, Monsters and Nature. You will build the world around you.)
• Non Instanced Player Owned Housing (You buy the land from us, you then build whatever will fit on it.)
• Decorate Your House However You'd Like
• Every Finished Item In Greed Monger Is Player Crafted (Everything!)
• The More Land Parcels You Own, The Bigger House You Can Build
• Greed Monger Is Free To Play
• No Global Chat, Only Person To Person Above Head Chat (It's time to bring back the sense of real community MMO's used to have!)
• Player Vs. Environment Combat
• Player Vs. Player Combat
• Fast Map Travel System (Find a map on the ground left by another player and you will fast travel to their home or shop, provided you have enough food in your pack.)
• Raid Monsters (Some controlled by the Devs)
• Full Player Driven Economy (Auction system will only be used for Estate Sales. Weapons, Armor and other items will be sold person to person only.)
• Player Written Lore Based On Adventures (Amazing tales will be told and submitted by players and guilds alike. These stories may be selected as part of the official Greed Monger Cannon)

Other Game Features

• Community Events
• Regularly Added Recipes and Plans For New Item Types
• Charge Players Rent To Access Your Land (For Hunting/Harvesting Rares)
• Ages Of Time and Technology will evolve with Population and Economic Growth (Evolve into the space age as a population and you may discover a means to settle new planets! All you will be allowed to take with you is what you started the game with and that's all you'll be allowed to bring back.)
• Ever Growing Housing Style Options For Each Climate.
• Multiple Climates/Landscapes Will Be Available At Launch
• Resell Your Estate For Real Money In Our Estate Auction House
• No Micro-Transactions (GM Fully Supported From Land and Estate Sales)
• No Pre-Defined Skills Trees (Learn all the skills you'd like, but you'll only be able to use a selection of combat skills at any given time.)
• Animals/Monsters Only Drop Materials To Craft Items, Not Finished Items.

And here are the rewards you promised to backers:

• $1 reward
  16 backers
  
  Pledge your support for Sandbox MMORPG's!
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
• $5 reward
  11 backers
  
  A: Thank you for your pledge. You will be forever enshrined on GreedMonger.com's Believers page with your name and a link to your website. (No Adult Sites). Forum Badge.
  
  Estimated delivery: Dec 2012
• $15 reward
  40 backers
  
  A and B: BETA ACCESS! (Also, a special map fragment in game that when combined with the others will reveal a single location for a weekly rare spawn.) Forum Badge.
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
• $25 reward
  243 backers
  
  A, B and C: You will receive ultra rare materials to craft your own Settlers Hat while receiving a skill boost in the process. Also, your own single parcel of land to call your home from which to build on. (Also, a 2nd map fragment in game that when combined with the others will reveal a single location for a weekly rare spawn.) Forum Badge.
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
• $50 reward
  120 backers
  
  A,B,C and D: You will receive A PDF E-Book displaying all of the recipes, plans and strategies for the Old Ages (Period of Time In Greed Monger) and a SECOND Parcel Of Land to call your own, adjacent to your first. This will enable you to build a bigger house! (Also, 3rd special map fragment in game that when combined with the others will reveal a single location for a weekly rare spawn.) Forum Badge.
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
• $75 reward
  17 backers
  
  All of the above, as well as a "I'm a Greed Monger" T-shirt and, a THIRD Parcel Of Land adjacent to the 1st and 2nd (L Shaped Pattern) as well as the 4th and Final special map fragment in game that when combined with the others will reveal a single location for a weekly rare spawn.) Forum Badge.
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
  Ships anywhere in the world
• $100 reward
  122 backers
  
  All of the above, and a FOURTH Parcel Of Land (Adjacent to the first 3 and connected as a large square of land) as well as the materials to craft a Wall Mounted Treasure Map that will help you Fast Travel to a secret location in Greed Monger. Forum Badge.
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
  Ships anywhere in the world
• $300 reward
  63 backers
  
  SMALL GUILD PACK: All of the above, plus: A large parcel of land equal in size to 16 Parcels. PLUS Your guild leader will name your village and it will appear on the in game map as a location. This will lead players to your village to buy and sell. (Beta Keys For Up To 15 Guild Members) Forum Badge.
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
  Ships anywhere in the world
• $500 reward
  18 backers
  
  MEDIUM GUILD PACK: All of the above, however your land will be considered a small city and be referred to as "Guild City" on the map instead of Village. A large parcel of land equal in size to 26 Parcels. Your Guild leaders REAL FACE will also be modeled into a stone statue and placed in your city. (Beta Access For Up To 35 Members) Forum Badge.
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
  Ships anywhere in the world
• $1,000 reward
  6 backers
  
  LARGE GUILD PACK: All of the above plus a large parcel of land equal in size to 54 Parcels. (Beta Access For Up To 65 Members) Forum Badge For All Guild Members. ALL $1,000 and up pledges will be immortalized on a stone wall in game naming the members of your guild as "The Faithful Few".
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
  Ships anywhere in the world
• $2,000 reward
  2 backers Limited (4 left of 6)
  
  KING GUILD LEADER PACKAGE: All of the perks of Pack B including YOUR OWN CASTLE, Owned by Your Guilds Leader and Attached To Your Parcels Of Land as an addition. If ever sold, it will need to be sold as one unit, detached from the city parcels adjacent to it.. Your castle will count as multiple land parcels.
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
  Ships anywhere in the world
• $2,500 reward
  3 backers Limited (2 left of 5)
  
  60 Parcels Of Land On an Island Of Your Very Own.There is no telling what will spawn on your very own island but we know it will be all yours...(Beta Access For Up To 65 Members) Forum Badge For All Guild Members. ALL $1,000 and up pledges will be immortalized on a stone wall in game naming the members of your guild as "The Faithful Few".
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
  Ships anywhere in the world
• $3,500 reward
  3 backers All gone!
  
  A Royal Castle and 60 Parcels Of Land On Your Very Own Island. With Only 4 Available, they will take away from the above packages. i.e Only 12 Total Castles in Game and Only 12 Total Islands In Game. (Beta Access For Up To 65 Members) Forum Badge For All Guild Members. ALL $1,000 and up pledges will be immortalized on a stone wall in game naming the members of your guild as "The Faithful Few". This is the creme de la creme!
  
  Estimated delivery: Apr 2013
  Ships anywhere in the world

Note the estimated delivery date, as well ... You're over two years past-due on all of your promised rewards. 243 t-shirts, as well. How many of those have even shipped? Oh, that's right ... Still delayed! Your backers are still awfully in the dark about everything, James. Most of them don't even seem to realize that all of the $100,000 they pledge is gone -- Most of which went directly into Jason Appleton's pockets. Funny that you haven't actually mentioned that on the offical forums. Kind of feels like something your backers should know about.

 

[Thane Solus]

judging by those features, you would need like a 20-30 man experienced dev team (or 60 average "doritos" developers) and would take maybe 2-3 years if they have some experience. For one programmer that never finished a full game, not even talking about a MMO, that's probably between 10 and 30 years (i dont even start to explain on motivation, stress from overworking yourself to that, and that happens on small games for PC ffs). But hey, dont be afraid, i knew a few one man team that pulled miracles, none of them made a MMO, complex single player games for PC, yes, in 2-4 years.

Good luck!

Cant wait for Greed thingy bob MMO, in 2030.

*Now, i don't blame the devs, they seem to be completely out of touch with this planet, like many of our members here on Codex, but who the hell backed this based on some promises and the videos here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIYdw8XIT_XPJd6KfPQJAXQ

First few videos can be made by one man with some scripting and world design experience, and some tweaking the character controllers. Most of the video show environments, and almost zero functionality (which actually involves programming) and one of them they show a 15-20 fps video with character an UI, that i am not sure if it works at all, fire a few bullets("magic missiles") at some deer, with the most basic particle effects even made by man.

Whats more hilarious is, that if you have some dev experience with engines, you will notice that on every fucking forum, including Unity, the most cluless users come and say they want to develop a MMO, as their first game. I've seen thousands of these types of threads, and then some veterans come and tell them "Start with a small game, make a few games, if you really make some money and a team, maybe, MAYBE try a small MMO".

I congratulate you for getting 100k for this. Its quite an achievement!

GOTY 2030

 

[InnitBruv]

Poor Derium pledged enough to have an item named after him... ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpNjOG0dF-I ) I can't begin to imagine the humongous facepalm he must have done.

Seems other people lost as much too, in the forums there were other 2k and 3.5k backers... thats like the price of a top of the range iMac. Oh dear!

Can they actually sue Jason and James? I mean, now that I see the KS rules, it seems pretty damn vague!

"To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers."

Pretty fine line on what is considered a "good faith effort"...

PS EDIT: How viable is a lawsuit against them? Would it succeed?

 

[DarKPenguiN]

judging by those features, you would need like a 20-30 man experienced dev team (or 60 average "doritos" developers) and would take maybe 2-3 years if they have some experience. For one programmer that never finished a full game, not even talking about a MMO, that's probably between 10 and 30 years (i dont even start to explain on motivation, stress from overworking yourself to that, and that happens on small games for PC ffs). But hey, dont be afraid, i knew a few one man team that pulled miracles, none of them made a MMO, complex single player games for PC, yes, in 2-4 years.

Good luck!

Cant wait for Greed thingy bob MMO, in 2030.

*Now, i don't blame the devs, they seem to be completely out of touch with this planet, like many of our members here on Codex, but who the hell backed this based on some promises and the videos here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIYdw8XIT_XPJd6KfPQJAXQ

First few videos can be made by one man with some scripting and world design experience, and some tweaking the character controllers. Most of the video show environments, and almost zero functionality (which actually involves programming) and one of them they show a 15-20 fps video with character an UI, that i am not sure if it works at all, fire a few bullets("magic missiles") at some deer, with the most basic particle effects even made by man.

Whats more hilarious is, that if you have some dev experience with engines, you will notice that on every fucking forum, including Unity, the most cluless users come and say they want to develop a MMO, as their first game. I've seen thousands of these types of threads, and then some veterans come and tell them "Start with a small game, make a few games, if you really make some money and a team, maybe, MAYBE try a small MMO".

I congratulate you for getting 100k for this. Its quite an achievement!

GOTY 2030

Just on that one point-

When this was being drummed up nobody really knew anything about unity because the glut of unity games hadnt yet happened- So Jason Appleton comes along with some great buzzwords , killer screenshots, and a great story and the gaming press rolled out the red carpet and promoted the fuck out of this.

MMORPG.com gave him his own forum within a few days (if memory servers me right) of him posting to share his sales pitch and the screenshots and they placed GM at #1 on their meter- Once markee dragon started publicly supporting the game and hyping it alot of people bought it- Hook, line and sinker.

It wasnt just the videos- But remember that even the videos were supposedly "in game"screenshots of a game he had been "self developing"because he was so rich and successful- Imagine how good this game would look after a couple years development. hell, Alpha was right around the corner in a few months and you would be playing.

Honestly this never would have happened or would have been far smaller scale if we had any integrity in gaming journalism.

EDIT- Even now the average laymen has no clue how easy it is to set up screenshots in unity and make something look epic. Hell, I didnt until a couple weeks ago when I decided to play around with it. In a couple hours I (with ZERO programming experience) had a kick ass looking "game"- It was easier than playing with rpg maker. Granted my"game" wasnt playable but it looked damn good and could have fooled most people. I was astounded at how easy it was- Thats today , after people have already told me it was easy. In 2012 it was still relatively unknown outside of programming circles what could be done. Made for a perfect storm.

It would have been far worse than the 100K + also if not for a few people who exposed this (and were threatened as a result)- Alot worse...

 

[InnitBruv]

By the way, this is my new Zombie Survival MMO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=159&v=c6iMDk9fFIk

Any similarities with this $40 Unity Asset Pack and James's Proctor own Zombie Survival game, is pure coincidence!

What do you guys think of making a Kickstarter to fund this game, so we can throw more money at Greed Monger ?

 

[Intrigued007]

Honestly this never would have happened or would have been far smaller scale if we had any integrity in gaming journalism.

Couldn't agree more.

It also happened in 2012, which was the height of the Kickstarter bubble, IIRC.

You could've put a potato on their, and people would've funded it. Wait ... didn't that actually happen?

 

[Scroo]

I love this thread and I hope it never ends

 

[Intrigued007]

I'd still really like to know how you plan to fund another game, James, while still drawing disability from the government.

 

[Whiran]

I'd still really like to know how you plan to fund another game, James, while still drawing disability from the government.

By not declaring it as income of course.

Gifts! Lots of gifts!