Grimoire gameplay and hints thread

[Lady_Error]

Who is the trainer who teaches Ninjitsu? Is it at the Green Mandarin place?

 

[Gunnar]

Astral Vision: A perceptual discipline enabling the initiate to see that which is invisible.

This is a new skill that has appeared since the last update, but I didn't see it listed in the update notes. Sounds like a way to reveal hidden walls without using magic. It's a natural skill for sage, like the other new skill Meditation.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

So is this game really as deep as i think it is? I'm getting geeked about playing it but I'll be busy with Arcanum for the foreseeable future.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'm getting geeked

What the fuck is this gobbledegook.

 

[Gunnar]

I just defeated Hobknob with a low level party (level 4-5, no bard), and it was a pretty enjoyable fight. I couldn't really damage him that much and at first all I could do was cast Confuse/Insane to give me a chance to survive a round or two. I summoned some vampire bats that were able to hit him a couple times a round. Turns out he is susceptible to the Blight spell. I diseased him, then all sorts of negative status effects starting showing up until he became totally paralyzed - easy pickings. I never even tried that spell when I played before, turns out it's great if the battle goes on for a few rounds.

The last time I played, 95% of the battles including all the boss monsters near the end were rapidly resolved with Lethal Blow. Maybe if some more monsters, at least the bosses, were immune to lethal blow it would make the combats a little more interesting? If I was going about it, I'd have one monster type per zone and ~75% of the bosses in the game immune to lethal blow.

The same goes for the bard and his sleeping harp. You can set a Bard character to play Lullabyes every attack from the first minute, and never do anything else for the whole game, and He puts everything to sleep, and it always works. It's not even an exploit or an overpowered item, it's the item he starts the game with. The combat cries out for some immunities to make me change up my tactics and use all the tools that the game provides.

 

[Lady_Error]

I don't think that the Sleep instrument is still that effective though. I tried starting with a Bard and even after a couple of levels, all the monsters were resisting the sleep instrument.

 

[Gunnar]

I don't think that the Sleep instrument is still that effective though. I tried starting with a Bard and even after a couple of levels, all the monsters were resisting the sleep instrument.

I'm saying there should be immunities that are outside the resistance system. That way a Bard can be really good at putting things to sleep, but he can't just rely on that because there's Amoebic slimes in the area that are completely immune to the sleep effect.

 

[Lady_Error]

A very high resistance is pretty much the same as immunity. And even Lethal Blow can be resisted, since it's more likely to occur with normal monsters than with bosses. Don't know which attributes or resistances play into that though. Maybe the System or Death resistances or CON of the monster?

 

[Gunnar]

It could be just a matter of adjusting the numbers so that high resistance monsters are able to resist max skilled attacks more often. Maybe that is something that is really hard to balance though? I'd think it was something carefully considered, especially at this point and it's plain that it's still off when you do a full playthrough of the game. Immunities would be easy.

 

[Lady_Error]

I don't know what you think is off. You're supposed to get some good payoffs if you do things well (eg. Lethal Blow) and you're supposed to struggle if you make bad choices.

 

[Gunnar]

I think the payoff is too good for lethal blow.

 

[Lady_Error]

Lethal Blow adds to the fun of building good characters with good weapons since you become an almost unstoppable killing machine. It worked in Wizardry and it works in Grimoire. And there are still areas with advanced monsters that are hard even with Lethal Blow.

 

[Dorateen]

I wonder how a non-lethal blow playthrough would go, with a party restricting fighter types to warriors and thieves. I'd never do it, but might make for an interesting challenge.

 

[Gunnar]

Lethal Blow adds to the fun of building good characters with good weapons since you become an almost unstoppable killing machine. It worked in Wizardry and it works in Grimoire. And there are still areas with advanced monsters that are hard even with Lethal Blow.

It's so good that it obsoletes all the rest of the systems and mechanics in the game and encourages all character builds to revolve around lethal blow. I think it's obviously overpowered and could stand to have some limitations, like having a few monsters and bosses be immune to it.

I wonder how a non-lethal blow playthrough would go, with a party restricting fighter types to warriors and thieves. I'd never do it, but might make for an interesting challenge.

This would probably make the combat take forever and be really tedious. I'm not suggesting lethal blow should be removed from the game.

 

[Lady_Error]

It's so good that it obsoletes all the rest of the systems and mechanics in the game and encourages all character builds to revolve around lethal blow

Not really. Take the Naga Assassin, for example. His Ninjitsu and Iron Hands together make the bites of the Naga by far the most effective weapon in my current playthrough, even without putting points into Lethal Blow so far (it'd become active for unarmed combat after 70 points).

You could also say that some early spells like Crushing Hand are "unbalanced", but half the fun is discovering what works best and then using it.

 

[Gunnar]

It's so good that it obsoletes all the rest of the systems and mechanics in the game and encourages all character builds to revolve around lethal blow

Not really. Take the Naga Assassin, for example. His Ninjitsu and Iron Hands together make the bites of the Naga by far the most effective weapon in my current playthrough, even without putting points into Lethal Blow so far (it'd become active for unarmed combat after 70 points).

You could also say that some early spells like Crushing Hand are "unbalanced", but half the fun is discovering what works best and then using it.

This is exactly what I'm talking about though. You noticed that there was something else that was effective, but that is only because everyone else hasn't had the chance to level up lethal blow and utterly marginalize it yet.

 

[Lady_Error]

Again, not really. The Naga is simply the fastest, so he gets to hit 3-5 times first each turn. The guys with lethal blow are slower and some of them have it already close to maxed out.

 

[Gunnar]

I'm not following you. Anyone can have speed. Are you trying to argue that pure damage is superior to lethal blow?

 

[Lady_Error]

Nagas are by far the fastest race, so that when you multiclass and don't put extra points into speed, they are naturally the fastest. This means that with about 4-5 attacks per turn with up to 50 damage each, my Naga has about 40% of the kills.

 

[Gunnar]

That speed bonus makes a big difference in the beginning and when class changing, but becomes less important the further into the game you play, because you can put points into Speed. It's nice in the beginning, but for the majority of the game, its a negligible bonus. On the other hand, you are barred from wearing pants and shoes. This isn't a huge problem in the beginning, but as you progress further and can get better items, the AC difference gets greater because the items get better. For the majority of the game, it's a liability. Damage characters are great in the beginning because monster don't have as much HP and you can do enough damage to kill them, and unarmed especially you can take advantage of the high damage scalies do but as you progress further the monsters have more HP and those with lethal blow get good weapons and can kill things much more efficiently than with pure damage. For the majority of the game, lethal blow is better. Not saying Damage characters don't have their place, but for the majority of the game other than the beginning, the only time it's better to have one over a lethal blow character is in the relatively rare circumstance where the monster is more resistant to lethal blow. The more lethal blow doesn't work, the more you have to turn to high damage and status effects to win battles, which is a good thing. I think lethal blow serves a very useful purpose in keeping the pacing of combat brisk, but it would be better if it didn't work against bosses and stuff to make those battles more interesting and make other skills and builds more attractive to use.

 

[Anthedon]

I will be starting Grimoire in short order. I've read the beginners guide on the wiki and will move on to The Manual tomorrow. Anything else I should do to prepare myself mentally?

 

[Lady_Error]

- Do some lifting at the gym.
- Watch "They Live" three times.
- Buy a Fallout shelter for the end of the world.
- Enjoy the game.

 

[Lady_Error]

On the other hand, you are barred from wearing pants and shoes. This isn't a huge problem in the beginning, but as you progress further and can get better items, the AC difference gets greater because the items get better. For the majority of the game, it's a liability.

Do we even know that the local AC plays a role and not just the Total AC, which reaches 125 with or without pants and shoes?

And the speed bonus is more important now that multiclassing is a viable and actually desirable thing to do. For many class changes you need to save up the extra points, so that you won't be putting them into Speed until you arrive at your final class. And that can take at least half the game or even more.

 

[Gunnar]

On the other hand, you are barred from wearing pants and shoes. This isn't a huge problem in the beginning, but as you progress further and can get better items, the AC difference gets greater because the items get better. For the majority of the game, it's a liability.

Do we even know that the local AC plays a role and not just the Total AC, which reaches 125 with or without pants and shoes?

And the speed bonus is more important now that multiclassing is a viable and actually desirable thing to do. For many class changes you need to save up the extra points, so that you won't be putting them into Speed until you arrive at your final class. And that can take at least half the game or even more.

Why do the individual armor pieces give you so much TAC? I just went to check and I almost hit the cap with just body armor on. I think you're right that the equipment restrictions actually don't matter for Naga. He wouldn't be able to wear Seven Leagues, but it's not like theres a pair for everybody anyway. You're right about his Speed bonus being pretty great also. Too bad about his resistances though.

 

[SevenSidedDice]

A Bard is really helpful. I found a Thistle Whistle early and it absolutely destroys every enemy and is GREAT at crowd control. Swaying lute is great, too. Because

Spoiler

Thistle Whistle is alt-hand, you should keep it in the inventory and "use' it whenever necessary

. Using the default party, I had no problems and breezed through everything pretty easily. Had to savescum for Lich and HobKnob (because RIP Aeorb). Lethal Blow'd Samhain Horror, no causalities. I'm entering Lalain and every character is at level 9.

Coffergus didn't even bat an eye when I gave him the Encoded Catechism.

Does the Caliburnus disappear after the charges are spent? Is there a way to recharge it? I have other high-damage items from The Vault of the Exemplar and I'm afraid They'll be wasted on worthless foes if they can not be recharged.