HAHAHA! Take -that- Ion Storm!

[fnordcircle]

Found this on RPGDot who are actually quoting this Shacknews article:

Multiple sources tell us that all is not well at Deus Ex & Thief 3 developer ION Storm. Apparently some 20 - 25 people have been laid off at the Eidos owned Austin based developer. That's not all though as Warren Spector is said to be leaving the company as well. If we receive any more details we'll be sure to post them. Update: Other sites have confirmed with Eidos that people have been let go, though Eidos denies that Spector is going anywhere. Update 2: More details are coming in. It looks like people leaving/being laid off is just the start of it, as the company is also changing names..and going PS2 development only.

Then this bit from Gamespot:

However, an Eidos executive contacted by GameSpot denied that Spector had exited the organization. "Warren is still there," he said, but would not elaborate. As to the layoffs, the Eidos exec refused to confirm or deny they had occurred. "With the completion of projects, there is always a review of teams," he said, refusing to comment further.

Finally, here's some stuff from an email exchange RPGDot had with a laid off developer.

I was one of the many laid off. I'd say about 25 or so were there today getting laid off, and there were probably four or five more people who weren't there (I only know of ONE for sure, though) who were also laid off. This was the first real layoff I've been involved in, so I don't know how it normally goes. However, they brought in HR from San Francisco to make sure things went by the book, and our access to our company's network was cut off immediately. This was the strangest batch of firings I've ever seen hit a company. There were a lot of REALLY talented people cut today: artists, designers, and programmers. I didn't notice any management being cut. A big shame all in all. Some of the instrumental people who fixed a lot of the problems that would have made Thief not ship on time (or with all of the problems that plagued DX2) and some of the people who were on Thief from the beginning were all cut. It was really deep cuts, and wasn't just a bunch of losers. Oh well, life must go on!

The current state of Ion is strange. I still have friends there, and they're not thrilled about what's happened and what is still happening. I guess the thing that I'd really say is: how many game companies have you seen that have had massive layoffs that suddenly did well afterwards? I have my doubts about the future of Ion Storm. I wish them success, for the sake of my friends and the game industry in Austin. I just don't have much hope. They've cut the studio to a one-team-one-project studio. Also, Warren Spector is no longer with Ion, as I understand it.

Well, all I've got to say is I hope that company goes down the tubes after the abortion that was DX:IW.
NOW WILL EVERY GAMING COMPANY OUT THERE START TO GET THE CLUE THAT DUMBING DOWN YOUR GAMES != HUGE SALEZ?!

Whoever said it here said it best, Spector is a tool.

 

[Vault Dweller]

NOW WILL EVERY GAMING COMPANY OUT THERE START TO GET THE CLUE THAT DUMBING DOWN YOUR GAMES != HUGE SALEZ?!

Unfortunately, it's been proven that gaming companies are unable to learn by examples and can learn only by doing.

 

[plin]

There's a couple ways to look at this.
One way, like alot of you here do, is to think that Warren Spector and crew dislike PC (sales, whatever) and dumbed down his game for better sales. Alot of you give a little too much credit to warren for this and other things.

Ever think Eidos pressured them into rushing the development? That Eidos pressured them with time constraints and money constraints to focus on the X-box version and then just port it without much optimizing for the pc?
I'm guessing they were doing two versions at the same time (you see the graphics from older screens and videos?) and then Eidos told them to focus on X-box then make a shit port.

Spector is a developer, you think he would want to release shit games? You can't even forgive him for making one shit game out of many good ones, it's fucking pathetic.
Spector is a tool? God, you guys are fucking idiots.


And 25-30 people lose their jobs (though it sounds like most of them were the kind of contract jobs that are only for that project, then it's over) and all you can say is "HAHAHA, good news, good ridance since you made DX2. OMG I R TEH STUPEDDD"

If you blame anyone, it should be Eidos, they are the fucking morons.

 

[Vault Dweller]

One way, like alot of you here do, is to think that Warren Spector and crew dislike PC (sales, whatever) and dumbed down his game for better sales.

No, it's much simplier, a lot of them think that consoles=mucho sales and the rest like console=dumbing down is taken from there.

Ever think Eidos pressured them into rushing the development? That Eidos pressured them with time constraints and money constraints to focus on the X-box version and then just port it without much optimizing for the pc?

Yeah, like optimizing would have solved anything. Console!=PC. That's a fact that no tweaking can change.

....and then Eidos told them to focus on X-box then make a shit port.

One word: contract. If a dual development option was a part of the deal, then nothing would have changed that. If it wasn't....

Spector is a developer, you think he would want to release shit games?

Have you read latest Spector's interview? Scary shit.

God, you guys are fucking idiots.

The feeling is mutual

 

[Spazmo]

Er... on the issue of Ion Storm and Eidos and contracts, I'm pretty sure that a variety of deals signed back in the crazy hazy days of the late 90's back when the whole Ion Storm thing hadn't imploded yet that essentially put Ion firmly in Eidos' pocket. Besides that, the Deus Ex and Thief franchises likely belong to Eidos so there's nowhere else for Ion Storm to go if they want to make DX or Thief games.

 

[Vault Dweller]

In whose pocket Ion Storm, Spector, and tbe Deus Ex license are isn't really an issue here. My point was that such things as dual development or porting had been surely agreed upon before this particular development started. I also highly doubt that Spector was a pawn who was forced to do Eidos bididng

 

[plin]

No, it's much simplier, a lot of them think that consoles=mucho sales and the rest like console=dumbing down is taken from there.

Alot of them, you mean management? I've never heard Spector say, "Oh, I love console games!!!! they are the best!!! Consoles = more sales." Haha, and I'm sure Spector knows what sells or not a hell of alot more than you would.

Yeah, like optimizing would have solved anything. Console!=PC. That's a fact that no tweaking can change.

I guess, though I doubt the developers would be more into the idea of "consoles = more money" than the publisher would (since Eidos owns Ion Storm).

Pretty simple senerio I see, who knows if it's right. Two halves working on PC and X-box versions. Eidos notices the deadline it would take to finish both at the same time (and the money). Eidos tells them all to focus on X-box. Eidos gives developers due date. Developers finish x-box version then hastily finish the PC-shit port.

Have you read latest Spector's interview? Scary shit.

Have you read the last couple of your guys posts? Stupid shit.

The feeling is mutual

That's fine, though I wasn't really directing it to you.

My only point is, you shouldn't be blaming spector (or calling him a tool, or an idiot), and you shouldn't be saying "hahahaha OMGSSS THEY GOT FIRED< WOOOOOOO, DX2 FUCKERS CAN GO TO HELL OMG".And if you do, you are an idiot. Since you really don't know what the situation was.

And if you're taking his interviews to heart, think about it from his position. Why would he say to major gaming sites/magazines that "yeah, I fucked up, deus ex 2 sucks. I made many mistakes on it. (or) Blah blah, he talks about the senerio in my mind."


"NOW WILL EVERY GAMING COMPANY OUT THERE START TO GET THE CLUE THAT DUMBING DOWN YOUR GAMES != HUGE SALEZ?!

Whoever said it here said it best, Spector is a tool."

"HAHAHA! Take -that- Ion Storm!"

To make myself clear,^^^ that shit is stupid ^^^. I wasn't trying to say you were a fucking idiot Vault dweller.

 

[plin]

I also highly doubt that Spector was a pawn who was forced to do Eidos bididng

Why? Spector is developing for his owner and publisher.


edit: and can you give me a link to his latest interview? I'd like to see this scary shit.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

Thief 3's a good game, though.

The Warren Spector hate is like Microsoft hate: there is nothing original left to be said. Whoever brings it up is a tool.

 

[Jed]

@plin: There's a wide body of evidence from the last three or so years proving that many publishers--if not developers as well--have taken to heart the notion that DUMBING DOWN GAMES=HUGE SALEZ.

I don't know what games you've been playing, but if they aren't dumbed down relative to the genre a few years back, then let me know because I'd love to play them.

By the way, what the fuck is up your ass?

 

[plin]

@plin: There's a wide body of evidence from the last three or so years proving that many publishers--if not developers as well--have taken to heart the notion that DUMBING DOWN GAMES=HUGE SALEZ.

I don't know what games you've been playing, but if they aren't dumbed down relative to the genre a few years back, then let me know because I'd love to play them.

By the way, what the fuck is up your ass?

1: No shit sherlock.

2: I've been playing older games

3: What's up my ass? The popular view to blame Spector for everything. And when someone laughs about 30 people losing their jobs just because they weren't happy with a game of theirs.\

 

[Vault Dweller]

I wasn't trying to say you were a fucking idiot Vault dweller.

Ok, then, it's cool. I'll get you some Spector's quotes tomorrow.

 

[Stark]

should we feel sad or what.

ION Storm at least produce good pc games for us. now it's gone too, going the way of consoles.

does that mean we pc gamers will have less and less games to play?

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

I'm agreeing with plin here. IF anything, it's like Tim Cain hanging on into the FOPOS days of Interplay (though he was right to bail out).

VD, I know alot of his quotes look bad, but hell, he's working for the Devil, what do you expect?

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Warren interprets interaction as "IF MY WIFE FEELS BAD FOR THE DED DOGGY< THEN MY WORK IS DOUNE LEWL"

That interview was a classic.

 

[Voss]

should we feel sad or what.

ION Storm at least produce good pc games for us. now it's gone too, going the way of consoles.

does that mean we pc gamers will have less and less games to play?

They did? Ion Storm?
Meh. 'Deus Ex:Just another shooter' and a sequel that sucked. Won't miss 'em.

 

[Dhruin]

Ion Storm is owned by Eidos so they'll do whatever Eidos tells them to. Spector seems to have embraced some stupid views of late but it's hard to know if that's his genuine belief or he's just trying to justify Eidos' directions.

At any rate, gloating over Spector doesn't change the fact that guys who did pretty good work on Thief3 are the main ones to get canned and it will only help accelerate the loss of good PC games.

And it's got nothing to do with dumbing down DX:IW. If anything, the suits will just point to Ion Storm and say "See? No-one buys "intelligent" games. Let's make another action game for the PS2".

 

[Shevek]

After DX:IW and Specters recent comments (In particular that games made for "MIT grads" arent worth making and that players shouldnt be faced with a "tyranny of choices"), I cant say I am terribly saddened to see them go. People have looked to Looking Glass and said "see, being creative doesnt pay." I am curious if the reverse will be said of Ion Storm seeing as how they were doing alright (as far I know) after Deus Ex and then everything went south after DX:IW.

Edit: I hope you are wrong Dhruin. I mean, it is far too early to say they fired those guys because Thief 3 didnt sell isnt it? The game barely came out.

 

[Jed]

"NOW WILL EVERY GAMING COMPANY OUT THERE START TO GET THE CLUE THAT DUMBING DOWN YOUR GAMES != HUGE SALEZ?!
...
To make myself clear,^^^ that shit is stupid ^^^. I wasn't trying to say you were a fucking idiot Vault dweller.

Here you say this is stupid...

1: No shit sherlock.

While this is your response second time around.

Do you agree with the statement or not?

 

[plin]

"NOW WILL EVERY GAMING COMPANY OUT THERE START TO GET THE CLUE THAT DUMBING DOWN YOUR GAMES != HUGE SALEZ?!
...
To make myself clear,^^^ that shit is stupid ^^^. I wasn't trying to say you were a fucking idiot Vault dweller.

Here you say this is stupid...

1: No shit sherlock.

While this is your response second time around.

Do you agree with the statement or not?

That quote is still stupid shit.
I was pointing to the stupidity in all three of his quotes.
And it still resides, No shit sherlock.

 

[Jed]

blablahincoherentbabbleblahblahblah

Looks like whatever mental impairment Volurn suffers from is contagious.

 

[Anonymous]

Spector is a developer, you think he would want to release shit games? You can't even forgive him for making one shit game out of many good ones, it's fucking pathetic.
Spector is a tool? God, you guys are fucking idiots.

Spector is nothing without the Looking Glass team, plain and simple.

 

[plin]

blablahincoherentbabbleblahblahblah

Looks like whatever mental impairment Volurn suffers from is contagious.

Awww, someone's sad because I use logic and reason and have an open-mind. "Volurn" seems to be another who uses them.

 

[Anonymous]

blablahincoherentbabbleblahblahblah

Looks like whatever mental impairment Volurn suffers from is contagious.

Awww, someone's sad because I use logic and reason and have an open-mind. "Volurn" seems to be another who uses them.

The poor creature is in denile.

 

[Dhruin]

Edit: I hope you are wrong Dhruin. I mean, it is far too early to say they fired those guys because Thief 3 didnt sell isnt it? The game barely came out.

That's not what I meant, although my wording could have been better. They didn't fire them because Thief didn't sell (although I don't think it will do that well). They fired them because Eidos figures they can make more money doing kiddy console games.

fnordcircle said "NOW WILL EVERY GAMING COMPANY OUT THERE START TO GET THE CLUE THAT DUMBING DOWN YOUR GAMES != HUGE SALEZ?! "

I'm saying this won't happen at all - it will be the exact opposite. The suits won't consider DX:IW a failure because it's dumbed-down. They'll consider it a failure because it wasn't dumbed down enough. More specifically, that the whole idea of PC games with depth is a waste of time.