fantadomat
Arcane
Paradox or the mod devs?My money is on paradox.
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Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game
- Thread starter GarfunkeL
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
- Messages
- 444
The KR devs, the production change i'm referring to is specific to the latest KR patch
Space Satan
Arcane
HoIIV Brazil is a place you should stay away. supply and infrastructure is abysmal. I usually never invade it, just grab coastal city and nuke them for quick surrender. Because it is near-impossible to wage war there as everyone gets huge attack penalties BECAUSE FUCKING JUNGLES and large rivers means your attack is usually 0-1. Lots of latin america countries stream ended up in stalemates or paradrops solving things because neither side could breach defensive lines. And no special force have bonus for jungles.
fantadomat
Arcane
Meh nukes is the worst part of the game.I have no idea why people use them.In one of my games i got nuked around 50 times,but since i was on the offensive it was just a bunch of fireworks.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
You need to use nukes BEFORE you invade the key points in Brazil so they actually take NU hits.
Thane Solus
Arcane
so still not a complete game. Did they fix the air? Attrition of AI divisions, Invasions? ....
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
SLOWLY advance.
IHaveHugeNick
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2015
- Messages
- 1,870,558
Brazil is easily folded if you don't mind gamey tactics like rushing victory points. Trying to fight in a normal way is a nightmare.
kris
Arcane
dont be so butthurt. I could point towards several mistakes on the map of Sweden in several of their games, you'd reckon they would get that right.
The Brazilian Slaughter
Arcane
So, is this game worthwhile yet? I'm still playing Darkest Hour.
not an artichoke
Cipher
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2010
- Messages
- 272
I manage to soak some enjoyment out of KR and other mods, but I wouldn't recommend it yet
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
HoI4 KR is best HoI ever.
I want to like HoI4, but its glaring flaws are difficult to ignore. It's never a good sign when a modding team puts the developer to shame like that. Don't get me wrong, Kaiserreich is awesome, but it would be nice to be able to play the game with that level of quality in a more traditional WW2 setting.
I wish I could get myself interested in the fantasy WWI scenario.
Space Satan
Arcane
Wait another 8 years for Victoria III
At this rate, I worry that they will simplify the economics simulation and pile on the DLC.
Victoria has always been oversimplified sandbox with just a whiff of historical accuracy.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
"Oversimplified" absolutely fails in description, if anything Victoria is a good example of unnecessary complexity having a negative impact both on gameplay and historical accuracy for zero gain. And I say this as someone that loves the Victoria games.
Yes, I should have said "oversimplified simulation of the Victorian era", mostly in terms of how diplomacy works, but also militaries and "research".
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Me too, though truth is that East vs West fucked itself over by the dev team's decision to insist on including multiplayer when it first signs of overstretching the project appeared.
Having a better diplomatic system would be by far the most important thing, in terms of military the basic thing needed would be eliminating the way armies are handled and instead build from ground up with a bigger link to the economics (and diplomacy), it SHOULD be all about the military trade goods and mobilization model. WWI is just not something Victoria has ever managed to do before, and it certainly cannot do it with a day based timescale instead of a 24 hour timescale, and it should go without saying that the military model would have to BUILD towards the stalemate and bottomless sink of Western Front. The same with the economic model would need to be true as well, with a major achilles heel for Germany come WWI (if come) being the fact you sort of needed that international trade you're now cut off from and it's not fun and games anymore.
The way I think it should be reworked is that the number of goods produced by factories and RGOs could be cut down if at the same time these goods are made to have more of a real and historical impact in the game, the most basic example being combining foodstuffs to a single trade good (let's call it "McDonald's" for this example), with the important thing being that McDonald's is not produced everywhere equally, RGO productivity should be determined less by gamey "tech" and much more by societal standards and methods of agricultural production, with the everpresent impact of McDonald's being the fact your people and mobilized troops can eat. A good example of these in action would be Famine Years in Finland in 1866-1868, caused by inefficient traditional farming methods combined with worst possible weather, with one of the aftermath effects being reformation of the agriculture to one based more in actual effectiveness (introduction of different staple crops to replace or supplement wheat, expansion and sponsorship of livestock) of agriculture that results in a more robust agricultural base that avoided famines in later crises (such as WW1).
Trade of goods and standards of living of pops will also need to be shifted away from "moves in mysterious ways" and more player-involved. Since the game isn't actually a "run a cabinet in 19th century" but controlling a nation in its entirety, there needs to be some element of Fordism's impact in the player changing values relevant to their nation.
Well the research thing should just be thrown out of the window IMO since it just ends up rather silly and it's one of the reason why the westernization thing is turned into such an insurmountable obstacle if you cannot just bypass it like Japan.
Having a better diplomatic system would be by far the most important thing, in terms of military the basic thing needed would be eliminating the way armies are handled and instead build from ground up with a bigger link to the economics (and diplomacy), it SHOULD be all about the military trade goods and mobilization model. WWI is just not something Victoria has ever managed to do before, and it certainly cannot do it with a day based timescale instead of a 24 hour timescale, and it should go without saying that the military model would have to BUILD towards the stalemate and bottomless sink of Western Front. The same with the economic model would need to be true as well, with a major achilles heel for Germany come WWI (if come) being the fact you sort of needed that international trade you're now cut off from and it's not fun and games anymore.
The way I think it should be reworked is that the number of goods produced by factories and RGOs could be cut down if at the same time these goods are made to have more of a real and historical impact in the game, the most basic example being combining foodstuffs to a single trade good (let's call it "McDonald's" for this example), with the important thing being that McDonald's is not produced everywhere equally, RGO productivity should be determined less by gamey "tech" and much more by societal standards and methods of agricultural production, with the everpresent impact of McDonald's being the fact your people and mobilized troops can eat. A good example of these in action would be Famine Years in Finland in 1866-1868, caused by inefficient traditional farming methods combined with worst possible weather, with one of the aftermath effects being reformation of the agriculture to one based more in actual effectiveness (introduction of different staple crops to replace or supplement wheat, expansion and sponsorship of livestock) of agriculture that results in a more robust agricultural base that avoided famines in later crises (such as WW1).
Trade of goods and standards of living of pops will also need to be shifted away from "moves in mysterious ways" and more player-involved. Since the game isn't actually a "run a cabinet in 19th century" but controlling a nation in its entirety, there needs to be some element of Fordism's impact in the player changing values relevant to their nation.
Space Satan
Arcane
Victoria's economic systems were fucked up beyond any repair. It was awful under ANY political system. Planned Economy, feisless faire, capitalism, anything. Factories were a mess, influence sphere was a mess. Demand was a mess. Everything was a mess. Get China to your sphere, get insane demand and infinite markey for your goods - WHAM. All your factories close because trillions of artisans flood your market with dirt cheap stuff. Because game have no concept for ptotecting your own market and influence sphere works both ways, crippling master as well as client.
That's true, but how many games like it do you know of?
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
See that's where I say that I like Supreme Ruler games but on a certain level playing them still feels like getting kicked in the balls repeatedly. So what that's to say is that even if you have no alternatives you should still bitch about the things that are wrong.
Ultimately the only thing you can do with the economic systems of Victoria games as they are is either ignore them and just look at the cashflow (which in turn goes back to Victoria being far too dominated by the size of core pop population above all things, which is probably only overshadowed in terms of longterm effects by whether or not you start as Civilized or you're Japan since everyone else is just permanently fucked), or you can try to break the system.
I again have to point out to as an example of how economic systems involving produced goods should be handled the wonderfully elegant crops/cash/troops/bonus system in the new Nobunaga's Ambition game, where economics is directly tied to war because your niggas need their rice on the go. Autumn is the time for war and big plans since that's when the big harvest happens. These are really simple steps but because they are so intuitively part of the larger scheme of things in the game, they produce that very important outcome of the whole being more than the sum of its parts. Victoria economic systems are complexity for the sake of complexity (NEVER a good idea), which ultimately only ends in a dysfunctional mess that only interacts with the rest of the game as a detriment to it and is so cumbersome and corpulent that it cannot be fixed.
And many of these aspects of suck are all united by two flaws: Busywork chores, or the nearly total absence of control. Like, I always nowadays mod all economic policies to at least include the AI automatically expanding the fucking mines because it becomes a neverending nightmare otherwise. Or the equally half-assed idea of having the standing armies only become that much more of a pain in the ass because of the idea of linking regiments to provinces for manpower. On the other hand, you have the supply and demand which operate on completely mysterious and nonsensical rules, usually only made worse because even the base game has TOO MANY trade goods (a good example being all the various foodstuffs WHICH SERVE NO PURPOSE) many of which exist in strange vacuums, and usually the only thing that matters in longterm economics is starting with enough literacy and having coal autarky because world market and coal work in really fucking mysterious ways.
Ultimately the only thing you can do with the economic systems of Victoria games as they are is either ignore them and just look at the cashflow (which in turn goes back to Victoria being far too dominated by the size of core pop population above all things, which is probably only overshadowed in terms of longterm effects by whether or not you start as Civilized or you're Japan since everyone else is just permanently fucked), or you can try to break the system.
I again have to point out to as an example of how economic systems involving produced goods should be handled the wonderfully elegant crops/cash/troops/bonus system in the new Nobunaga's Ambition game, where economics is directly tied to war because your niggas need their rice on the go. Autumn is the time for war and big plans since that's when the big harvest happens. These are really simple steps but because they are so intuitively part of the larger scheme of things in the game, they produce that very important outcome of the whole being more than the sum of its parts. Victoria economic systems are complexity for the sake of complexity (NEVER a good idea), which ultimately only ends in a dysfunctional mess that only interacts with the rest of the game as a detriment to it and is so cumbersome and corpulent that it cannot be fixed.
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