Heroes of Might & Magic 7

[Zeriel]

https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/town-development-in-heroes-vii#comments-container

Town development article.

 

[Archibald]

Every second comment is about making 3D towns. Fanbase focusing on the important things.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

These are all good points, but what I was trying to say earlier is that they aren't neccessarily intricately tied into the core-elite-champion system, they are the result of bad design in general, and would exist if the same people had done a Heroes 3 style unit tier system too.

How on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that if 7 tiers were kept the 1st level units would still be unkillable tanks?? Of course they wouldn't be, it is a direct result of a 3 tiers system that enforced the flattening of the power increase between creatures.

Edit: wow, they're also dropping the town conversions, innovative design, thank you Ubisoft for saving homm.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Jesus Christ.

Heroes 5 fans = Bethesda fans.

 

[Cadmus]

These are all good points, but what I was trying to say earlier is that they aren't neccessarily intricately tied into the core-elite-champion system, they are the result of bad design in general, and would exist if the same people had done a Heroes 3 style unit tier system too.

How on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that if 7 tiers were kept the 1st level units would still be unkillable tanks?? Of course they wouldn't be, it is a direct result of a 3 tiers system that enforced the flattening of the power increase between creatures.

Edit: wow, they're also dropping the town conversions, innovative design, thank you Ubisoft for saving homm.

What, why would you want the town conversions again? That and the shared creature pool were the most retarded ever introduced in the franchise..

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Oh, come on, that was sarcasm.

 

[Cadmus]

Oh, come on, that was sarcasm.

=/ sorry, that sentence just seemed strange

 

[Archibald]

These are all good points, but what I was trying to say earlier is that they aren't neccessarily intricately tied into the core-elite-champion system, they are the result of bad design in general, and would exist if the same people had done a Heroes 3 style unit tier system too.

How on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that if 7 tiers were kept the 1st level units would still be unkillable tanks?? Of course they wouldn't be, it is a direct result of a 3 tiers system that enforced the flattening of the power increase between creatures.

I'm confused. What exactly forbids you from making tier 1 roughly equal to 1-3 homm3 tiers, tier 2 to 4-5 homm3 tiers and tier 3 to 6-7? As I understand you still need to build different dwellings for them and Black Dragon could be more expensive and noticeably stronger than that dark elf chick from homm5. Realistically speaking I don't see any benefit of this 3-tiers system, but I imagine that you could still have different power levels in same tier.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Not really power levels, more like functions, for example level 1: tank melee, offensive melee and shooter/healer. The whole idea of 3 levels is that the power of creatures sharing a level is similar and since there are only three levels it's absolutely obvious that the gap between 1 and 3 will be a hell lot smaller than between 1 and 7. The usual moment when a new homm VI player realizes how fucked up that is is when he gets his first tier 3 creatures and tries using them on "weak" level 1 units.

 

[Archibald]

Ah, makes more sense now. Looking back at releases list of Haven creatures it looks similar to what you described:
Tier 1: Shooter, offensive melee, defensive melee.
Tier 2: Fast melee, slow melee, support
Tier 3: shit, good

 

[Frusciante]

Graphics look pretty nice. Art style still not good but all in all it looks decent.

One thing I never liked about HOMM is the stacks of doom you always end up with. It becomes just a numbers game after a while. Are they going to improve that for this game?

 

[Archibald]

How exactly would you "improve" that?

 

[Angthoron]

Logistics attrition! Can't supply your troops? They'll die of hunger and disease.

Also of old age.




I dunno though, HoMM to me has been about doomstacks and I just kinda roll with it, just a staple of the series.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Doomstacks are for pansies who play on beginner and don't have to blitz in the first 3 weeks.

 

[Frusciante]

Doomstacks are for pansies who play on beginner and don't have to blitz in the first 3 weeks.

I'm not a HOMM expert at all, played only HOMM VI for a bit. So it could be that I'm playing it wrong.

 

[catfood]

Doomstacks are for pansies who play on beginner and don't have to blitz in the first 3 weeks.

I'm not a HOMM expert at all, played only HOMM VI for a bit. So it could be that I'm playing it wrong.

You're playing it the way it's meant to be played.

 

[Storyfag]

Logistics attrition! Can't supply your troops? They'll die of hunger and disease.

Also of old age.

Maybe not as radical, but a cap on total army size would work nicely here. An incentive to use 3-4 armies instead of a single doomstack.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Aren't doomstacks the point of the game? I only play campaigns but people are always talking about 10k skeletons and other massive armies they accumulate in MP/customs. I doubt that they'll change it if they are generally liked. On the other hand people also generally liked cities that don't look like vomit, good looking units, fun universe and it didn't stop Ubisoft.

 

[Archibald]

Introducing some attrition or caps on total size to force multiple armies would just screw up the game. Having multiple armies works when you actually need them and it isn't forced by the game.

 

[mhm32167]

Are doomstacks a big problem in multiplayer? In singleplayer, surely amassing a huge army and rolling over everything in the map is down to AI and/or map design. If the enemy puts up a fight with high level heroes and huge armies its not such a problem.

 

[DataPack]

Are doomstacks a big problem in multiplayer? In singleplayer, surely amassing a huge army and rolling over everything in the map is down to AI and/or map design. If the enemy puts up a fight with high level heroes and huge armies its not such a problem.

Nah, doomstacks are usually not an issue in multiplayer but it can be depending on how much you're willing to force fights etc. (it also depends on the number of players/ the size of the map and how experienced the players are)

 

[Jaedar]

"Haven towns have fast access to the strongest possible walls."
Haven confirmed for shit?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

"Haven towns have fast access to the strongest possible walls."
Haven confirmed for shit?

Now that I think about it, yeah they are shit. I mean magic can help you fight weak creatures and siege or defend foreign castles. There are not many situations where you have to fortify your city ASAP. It would be good if they had some mobile walls they can pack and transport to other cities. Would make retaking cities from Heaven a bit pain in the ass.

 

[mhm32167]

It might not be so bad if they tie in creature growth with citadel/castle.

 

[mhm32167]

Final commentary on HP bloat in HOMM6: I played the game a lot, and my experience was not that low tier units were massively less tough than high tier units, but that every unit in the game just had too much HP. Huge stacks of low tier units did lots of damage just as in previous games, it just wasn't enough in relation to the HP of every unit. My low tier stacks couldn't one-shot most big stacks--but neither could my massive champion tier stacks, either. It was a problem across the board, no matter what the level of the unit. Also, Haven was by design tanky as fuck in mechanics, which was a separate problem. (The Pikeman units were specifically designed to prevent units from dying by sharing damage of adjacent tiles.)

They may indeed avoid the hp bloat issue despite using the tiers system. Looking through the gamescom gameplay video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh0fIsbEg3A), there are two separate instances of damage to crossbowmen that indicate they have substantially less hp than the 20hp they have in heroes 6; in the second battle, 16 crossbowmen die from 135 prime damage, and in the third battle, one colossus dies from 255 light damage and 14 crossbowmen die from 152 fire damage. I'm guessing crossbowmen have 8 hp in homm7. If this is true then this is less than half of the lowest hp homm6 core creature.