Heroes of Might & Magic 7

[hoverdog]

HOMAM formula keeps being consistently shat on by far superior games like Disciples 2, King's Bounty

 

[FeelTheRads]

Ubisoft is fucked because they are assholes, not because oh my good poor ubisoft they dont know what to do because of the evil players hurr durr

Ex-fucking-actly. Today H6 is widely considered an equivalent of child molestation simulator created by Satan himself. Why? Largely because the DRM. But also because it was simply different. I can't say I loved the changes but I didn't mind them either. Hordes of H3 fanbois threw the toys out of their prams though and shat all over the game. In reality it was a solid HOMAM game, worse than H2/H3 but way, way better than the lethally boring crime against humanity that was H5.

But all this back and forth is irrelevant anyway because for the last 10 years the HOMAM formula keeps being consistently shat on by far superior games like Disciples 2, King's Bounty or Erador. The H3 fanatics are gonna scream bloody murder unless they get the exact same copy of their holy relic but meanwhile the world moved on.

Yeah, yeah, we know, haters gonna hate, nostalgia glasses etc. Just fuck off to IGN or something already. There people have already moved on so they should be more to your taste.

 

[cvv]

Ubisoft is fucked because they are assholes, not because oh my good poor ubisoft they dont know what to do because of the evil players hurr durr





Yeah, yeah, we know, haters gonna hate, nostalgia glasses etc. Just fuck off to IGN or something already. There people have already moved on so they should be more to your taste.

Butthurt brothers.

 

[hoverdog]

and what, pray tell, did those two games invent that made the HoMM formula obsolete?

King's Bounty is just HoMM-like battles repeated ad nauseam with a "funny" storyline plastered on top. Disciples 2 seem fun enough until you release the entire gameplay mechanics are fundamentally flawed.

 

[cvv]

and what, pray tell, did those two games invent that made the HoMM formula obsolete?

Listen, I write up a wall'o text, you reply it's all bullshit, I reply no no it's not, you reply it is too...let's just pretend it already happend.

Disciples 2 seem fun enough until you release the entire gameplay mechanics are fundamentally flawed.

Because it's different from H3, I know.

 

[hoverdog]

Listen, I write up a wall'o text, you reply it's all bullshit, I reply no no it's not, you reply it is too...let's just pretend it already happend.

Now really. Maybe if the "wall'o text" contained an actual argument rather than "hurr durr HoMM formula is shit because of two shit games" people wouldn't discard your dumbfuckery so easily.

Because it's different from H3, I know.

No, because they are fundamentally flawed. Eador is a great game (probably the most addictive one since HoMM3), Disciples is garbage.

 

[cvv]

Dumbfuckery? Ouch.

As for the "actual argument" thingy - "Disciples is fundamentaly flawed because it's fundamentaly flawed because it's garbage". Right.

Also, I didn't say Homam is shit. I said we have better HOMAM-like games now. I knew imma not gonna get any KKK for that but jesus. Screw this, can't handle so much butthurt, going back to mocking fags on BSN.

Spoiler

Looking fwd to WoM btw.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Butthurt brothers.

Yes, butthurt about the usual "people have moved on why are you playing shitty old games lol fag" retardation that we have at least once every week around here. You should've known by now you're not original, but seems not.

going back to mocking fags on BSN.

Do that and please stay there.

 

[you know what time it is]

Ex-fucking-actly. Today H6 is widely considered an equivalent of child molestation simulator created by Satan himself. Why? Largely because the DRM. But also because it was simply different. I can't say I loved the changes but I didn't mind them either. Hordes of H3 fanbois threw the toys out of their prams though and shat all over the game. In reality it was a solid HOMAM game, worse than H2/H3 but way, way better than the lethally boring crime against humanity that was H5.

But all this back and forth is irrelevant anyway because for the last 10 years the HOMAM formula keeps being consistently shat on by far superior games like Disciples 2, King's Bounty or Erador. The H3 fanatics are gonna scream bloody murder unless they get the exact same copy of their holy relic but meanwhile the world moved on.

Yeah, being upset about new releases that are inferior to homm3 (released 1999) in terms of design, content, art direction, polish, gameplay and pretty much EVERYTHING, sounds like fanaticism to me.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I don't understand those fans.

Can't say I see what's there to not understand. I'm pretty sure everyone would love and appreciate games that are both good on their own and improvement on the classics, but such games aren't coming, at least not from a company like Ubisoft. Copying existing gameplay and mechanic templates while trying to not fuck up the rest too much is realistically speaking the best they can do. They tried to prove otherwise with VI and look what happened.

Largely because the DRM. But also because it was simply different.

Obviously it was for those two reasons, not because it was a bad game and an obvious decline from its direct predecessor and that additionally it was, and still is, a nightmare on the technical side.

In reality it was a solid HOMAM game, worse than H2/H3 but way, way better than the lethally boring crime against humanity that was H5.

This is where you really lost me. So you like VI, but think II and III are better, yet deem V "satan molestation something" or whatever ott words you like to use? Do you suffer from some sort of autism? Or do you perhaps play these games "for the story" or some equally silly reason?

But all this back and forth is irrelevant anyway because for the last 10 years the HOMAM formula keeps being consistently shat on by far superior games like Disciples 2, King's Bounty or Erador.

Who the hell compares (arguably fun) strictly sp grind romps like Disciples or nu-KB to one of the best hotseat/multi tb strategies ever and what would the point of such comparison be? Unless you meant the actual KB, in which case the comparison would be less silly but the conclusion still retarded, since HOMM improved on its ancestor in every possible manner.

No, because they are fundamentally flawed. Eador is a great game (probably the most addictive one since HoMM3), Disciples is garbage.

It's not garbage. The combat in DII is fun, but both completely different than HOMM and, like you said, fundamentally flawed with the slow unit progression that turns it into a save/load fest because you cannot settle for anything less than a flawless victory. The rest is not even half as good as HOMM obviously, but at least they have some basics in common so this comparison wasn't as retarded as the nu-KB one. Perhaps it was about the new Disciples games, but no one played these.

TLDR: first people not knowing what a 4x game is, now this, of strategy board.

 

[Archibald]

I also don't get KB/Disciples comparison. I like both games and spent many sleepless nights while playing Disciples 2, but they aren't really similar asides of "turn based fantasy game that involves cities". Fundamentally three series are completely different.

The combat in DII is fun, but both completely different than HOMM and, like you said, fundamentally flawed with the slow unit progression that turns it into a save/load fest because you cannot settle for anything less than a flawless victory.

You never have to do that unless you want to. Normally 99% of the battles are won with zero chance of failure.

 

[Archibald]

To expand a bit on Disciples point - flawless victories are not required most of the time. Important part of the game is that for each battle you get fixed amount of experience that is distributed evenly among your party. Ideally you want to retreat with some of your units before battle ends so that your key units get more experience and level up faster. This makes your party more efficient earlier than if you'd just level up everyone evenly and also makes it cheaper since you don't have to build multiple upgrade buildings at around same time.

Now retreating is not always an option since it needs two turns so having some of your units die is completely fine if you have means to resurrect and heal them (not needing to building multiple upgrade buildings leaves you with more gold for temple and resurrections/healing/buying potions). With some parties its also okay to use level 1 front line grunts as basically canon fooder till your key units get upgraded and you save enough money to buy special unit of your faction (werewolf for example) to replace them.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

You never have to do that unless you want to. Normally 99% of the battles are won with zero chance of failure.

Well, what I meant is that when you do lose an experienced unit (by simple human mistake or by picking a wrong fight too early or whatever) then you will reload, especially if you don't really have any neutrals to grind on at the given point or/and there is a difficult fight incoming.

The rest of what you wrote is powergaming, and:
1. Not everyone one likes to powergame through their sp shit.
2. Introduction of powergaming usually breaks every discussion about gaming mechanics, because "if I bypass this by means that designers didn't really think of then it's not a problem anymore".

Though I still think the combat iteslf is fun and the presentation is really top notch. But it's a fact that the game is flawed at the core and the strategic layer is really sub-par.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Disciples 2's vanilla campaigns consisting of grinding through the same encounters did get rather old in the long run, but the devs did some interesting shit in the Servants of Darkness/Guardians of Light campaigns where enemy mobs were much more varied both in units and experience. Level 40 peasants accompanied by lvl 10 spearmen, never forget.

 

[Archibald]

Well, what I meant is that when you do lose an experienced unit (by simple human mistake or by picking a wrong fight too early or whatever) then you will reload, especially if you don't really have any neutrals to grind on at the given point or/and there is a difficult fight incoming.

The rest of what you wrote is powergaming, and:
1. Not everyone one likes to powergame through their sp shit.
2. Introduction of powergaming usually breaks every discussion about gaming mechanics, because "if I bypass this by means that designers didn't really think of then it's not a problem anymore".

Fair enough.

Though I still think the combat iteslf is fun and the presentation is really top notch. But it's a fact that the game is flawed at the core and the strategic layer is really sub-par.

Honestly I don't really consider Disciples 2 to be a strategy game. For most people core gameplay consists of using same 3-6 units entire map, getting experience, level uping and gathering loot for your main hero. Reminds me more of some dungeon crawler than of genuine strategy game (even combat reminds me more of old dungeon crawlers were your options were hitting shit in front of you or defending). Either way I think that Disciples series (not counting third part which was all kinds of derp, thou I heard that last expansion was supposedly "playable") is very good example of "good for what it is" series.

 

[APGunner]

Two updates on the official blog.
Heaven's WIP townscreen.

Looks ok for the most part, except for incorrect perspective on some buildings AND A HUGE-ASS GOLDEN DRAGON STATUE that looks completely out of place.

Academy townscreen from previous update looks better. When everything is a multicolored mess, nothing really stands out.

Another update is about magic guilds.
Magic guilds can be upgraded from level 1 to 4.
A total of 16 spells for a fully upgraded magic guild in any town, and 20 for an Academy town.
Level 1 spells do not require any skill to be learnt.

Everything else about magic system seems to be like in previous games.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Ho-hum, them "town portals". I'm sure this will end up well.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Mobile game graphics, that's cool.

 

[Kayerts]

Looks ok for the most part, except for incorrect perspective on some buildings AND A HUGE-ASS GOLDEN DRAGON STATUE that looks completely out of place.

Looks like that's the grail building from the description:

Elrath's Infinite Mercy: Provides 5000 gold / day and additional great bonuses (to discover soon!)

So it should be pretty noticeable. My main issue with it is that it's shunted off to the background--"oh hey guys, I just thought maybe we'd used this singular artifact to erect the world's biggest shrine to our god, if that's not a big deal or anything, I mean. We can place it off to the side where it won't get in the way, I wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone."

Ho-hum, them "town portals". I'm sure this will end up well.

Looks like they're doing things differently:

In Heroes VII we decided not to keep H6 town portal system. The town portal only allows you to be teleported to this town if you hero have the right spell for this. However, like it was on previous games, this spell only can teleport you to the nearest town.

So building this enables H3's basic version of town portal, if you've independently learned the spell. Seems like they may have erred on the side of making it underpowered, but they do appear to have addressed how dumb it was in H6.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

So building this enables H3's basic version of town portal, if you've independently learned the spell. Seems like they may have erred on the side of making it underpowered

To be fair, town portal was OP as fuck in H3, so erring on the side of underpowered is the right move.

 

[Storyfag]

To be fair, town portal was OP as fuck in H3, so erring on the side of underpowered is the right move.

It was only OP if you had advanced or expert Earth Magic, which was not *that* common. It appears the Town Portal in 7 will work like the basic TP in 3, which was not OP at all. Adding a cost of constructing a building to that is kinda overkill...

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Fair enough.



Honestly I don't really consider Disciples 2 to be a strategy game. For most people core gameplay consists of using same 3-6 units entire map, getting experience, level uping and gathering loot for your main hero. Reminds me more of some dungeon crawler than of genuine strategy game (even combat reminds me more of old dungeon crawlers were your options were hitting shit in front of you or defending). Either way I think that Disciples series (not counting third part which was all kinds of derp, thou I heard that last expansion was supposedly "playable") is very good example of "good for what it is" series.

it's a generic mid 90s JRPG with dark western fantasy aesthetics

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

I'm not liking those town screens.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Am I the only one who thinks that MM art direction was best around MM 6-7 and went downhill from there?

Same with the lore, Enroth/Erathia was so much better than this Ashan bullshit...

 

[Jaedar]

I think my main problem with the town screens is the wasted screen space. All the buildings are basically in the background and super clustered.