Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Lucumo]

DmC 3

I looked it up, genuinely surprised, but this is what I found:

"DMC3 for PC is a notoriously bad port of the game from 2006/2007 by Ubisoft"

Sometimes PC ports existed of big Japanese games, but they were often botched ports.

Good thing I've never played it myself then, only DmC 4 which was fine.

 

[Mountain]

but cmon, to think that Chrono Trigger represents a gotcha over PC is insane.

No one is saying that (unless someone said it earlier in the thread lol). PC has always been the best platform. Both PC and consoles were essential for the development of games.

Ultimately, the reason why the NES is so fondly remembered and the C64 and the like is not, is because Nintendo succeeded in building a profitable game company and produce mainstream franchises like Mario that brought in the cash and attention to sustain it.

 

[ropetight]

 

[newtmonkey]

The C64 is fondly remembered by all people with good taste.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

The issue surrounding Chrono Trigger is that this thread is about how history has been distorted by American journalists who grew up on the NES and/or SNES.

To recap some of the earlier high-quality discussion, the American coasts are an exception, where Europe was much more SEGA-heavy, with significant Master System and Megadrive uptake, plus a strong PC tradition on the continent. But because American journalists grew up with the SNES, they tend to over-emphasise it in histories of video gaming, resulting in an internet that is full of clickbait lists that ignore wider history, or often ignore all of PC - an old example to illustrate:

The Top 100 Video Games of All Time (IGN, 2021):​

100. Borderlands 2

99. Divinity: Original Sin 2​

98. Final Fantasy VII​

97. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag​

96. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge​

95. Burnout 3: Takedown​

94. Fallout 2​

93. League of Legends​

92. Mega Man 3​

91. Animal Crossing: New Horizons​

90. Thief II: The Metal Age​

89. SimCity 2000​

88. Inside​

87. Titanfall 2​

86. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2​

85. Monster Hunter: World​

84. Resident Evil 2 (Remake)​

83. System Shock 2​

82. Mortal Kombat 11​

81. Persona 5 Royal​

80. Dark Souls​

79. Fortnite​

78. Fable 2​

77. GoldenEye 007​

76. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate​

75. Spelunky 2​

74. Return of the Obra Dinn​

73. Dota 2​

72. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe​

71. Donkey Kong​

70. The Sims 3​

69. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory​

68. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island​

67. Silent Hill 2​

66. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas​

65. XCOM 2​

64. Control​

63. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare​

62. Rise of the Tomb Raider​

61. Batman: Arkham City​

60. Dishonored 2​

59. The Witness​

58. Journey​

57. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves​

56. Overwatch​

55. Apex Legends​

54. Hollow Knight​

53. Ms. Pac-Man​

52. Counter-Strike 1.6​

51. Left 4 Dead 2​

50. EarthBound​

49. Diablo II​

48. StarCraft​

47. World of Warcraft​

46. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic​

45. Fallout: New Vegas​

44. Final Fantasy VI​

43. Pokémon Yellow​

42. Metroid Prime​

41. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim​

40. Resident Evil 4​

39. Shadow of the Colossus​

38. The Last of Us Part 2​

37. Red Dead Redemption​

36. Metal Gear Solid​

35. Sid Meier's Civilization IV​

34. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time​

33. Minecraft​

32. Halo: Combat Evolved​

31. Half-Life​

30. Final Fantasy XIV​

29. Doom​

28. Tetris​

27. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater​

26. Half-Life: Alyx​

25. God of War​

24. Chrono Trigger​

23. Portal​

22. Street Fighter II​

21. Super Mario Bros.​

20. Undertale​

19. Bloodborne​

18. BioShock​

17. The Last of Us​

16. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt​

15. Halo 2​

14. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night​

13. Hades​

12. Grand Theft Auto V​

11. Super Mario Bros. 3​

10. Disco Elysium​

9. Half-Life 2​

8. Red Dead Redemption 2​

7. Super Mario 64​

6. Mass Effect 2​

5. Super Metroid​

4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past​

3. Portal 2​

2. Super Mario World​

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild​

As previously mentioned, these lists are just pasted everywhere all over the internet, virtually ignore the history of PC gaming, and often exclude non-Nintendo consoles. Like as Falksi previously mentioned, two Marios and no Sonic in the top ten. No Deus Ex, no X-Com, no System Shock, no Planescape, etc, etc, etc. There is also the Wikipedia article "1994 in gaming" which I previously posted, where it didn't mention a single PC game, when X-Com, Doom 2, TIE Fighter and System Shock were all released that year.

That's the level of historical revisionism this thread seeks to redress.

 

[Mountain]

The issue surrounding Chrono Trigger is that this thread is about how history has been distorted by American journalists who grew up on the NES and/or SNES.

To recap some of the earlier high-quality discussion, the American coasts are an exception, where Europe was much more SEGA-heavy, with significant Master System and Megadrive uptake, plus a strong PC tradition on the continent. But because American journalists grew up with the SNES, they tend to over-emphasise it in histories of video gaming, resulting in an internet that is full of clickbait lists that ignore wider history, or often ignore all of PC - an old example to illustrate:

The Top 100 Video Games of All Time (IGN, 2021):​

100. Borderlands 2

99. Divinity: Original Sin 2​

98. Final Fantasy VII​

97. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag​

96. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge​

95. Burnout 3: Takedown​

94. Fallout 2​

93. League of Legends​

92. Mega Man 3​

91. Animal Crossing: New Horizons​

90. Thief II: The Metal Age​

89. SimCity 2000​

88. Inside​

87. Titanfall 2​

86. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2​

85. Monster Hunter: World​

84. Resident Evil 2 (Remake)​

83. System Shock 2​

82. Mortal Kombat 11​

81. Persona 5 Royal​

80. Dark Souls​

79. Fortnite​

78. Fable 2​

77. GoldenEye 007​

76. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate​

75. Spelunky 2​

74. Return of the Obra Dinn​

73. Dota 2​

72. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe​

71. Donkey Kong​

70. The Sims 3​

69. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory​

68. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island​

67. Silent Hill 2​

66. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas​

65. XCOM 2​

64. Control​

63. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare​

62. Rise of the Tomb Raider​

61. Batman: Arkham City​

60. Dishonored 2​

59. The Witness​

58. Journey​

57. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves​

56. Overwatch​

55. Apex Legends​

54. Hollow Knight​

53. Ms. Pac-Man​

52. Counter-Strike 1.6​

51. Left 4 Dead 2​

50. EarthBound​

49. Diablo II​

48. StarCraft​

47. World of Warcraft​

46. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic​

45. Fallout: New Vegas​

44. Final Fantasy VI​

43. Pokémon Yellow​

42. Metroid Prime​

41. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim​

40. Resident Evil 4​

39. Shadow of the Colossus​

38. The Last of Us Part 2​

37. Red Dead Redemption​

36. Metal Gear Solid​

35. Sid Meier's Civilization IV​

34. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time​

33. Minecraft​

32. Halo: Combat Evolved​

31. Half-Life​

30. Final Fantasy XIV​

29. Doom​

28. Tetris​

27. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater​

26. Half-Life: Alyx​

25. God of War​

24. Chrono Trigger​

23. Portal​

22. Street Fighter II​

21. Super Mario Bros.​

20. Undertale​

19. Bloodborne​

18. BioShock​

17. The Last of Us​

16. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt​

15. Halo 2​

14. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night​

13. Hades​

12. Grand Theft Auto V​

11. Super Mario Bros. 3​

10. Disco Elysium​

9. Half-Life 2​

8. Red Dead Redemption 2​

7. Super Mario 64​

6. Mass Effect 2​

5. Super Metroid​

4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past​

3. Portal 2​

2. Super Mario World​

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild​

As previously mentioned, these lists are just pasted everywhere all over the internet, virtually ignore the history of PC gaming, and often exclude non-Nintendo consoles. Like as Falksi previously mentioned, two Marios and no Sonic in the top ten. No Deus Ex, no X-Com, no System Shock, no Planescape, etc, etc, etc. There is also the Wikipedia article "1994 in gaming" which I previously posted, where it didn't mention a single PC game, when X-Com, Doom 2, TIE Fighter and System Shock were all released that year.

That's the level of historical revisionism this thread seeks to redress.

Well, what game among older PC games do you think should be on this list? most of the games you mention have aged quite a bit.

Making a best-of list needs to be either historically based or based on the current day. The list you posted fails both criteria though, having Super Mario 3 on a current-day list is absurd, while a on historically based list it would fare very well.

There are very few games before 2000 that compare to newer games without nostalgia glasses.

 

[Viata]

There are very few games before 2000 that compare to newer games without nostalgia glasses.

 

[Falksi]

The issue surrounding Chrono Trigger is that this thread is about how history has been distorted by American journalists who grew up on the NES and/or SNES.

To recap some of the earlier high-quality discussion, the American coasts are an exception, where Europe was much more SEGA-heavy, with significant Master System and Megadrive uptake, plus a strong PC tradition on the continent. But because American journalists grew up with the SNES, they tend to over-emphasise it in histories of video gaming, resulting in an internet that is full of clickbait lists that ignore wider history, or often ignore all of PC - an old example to illustrate:

The Top 100 Video Games of All Time (IGN, 2021):​

100. Borderlands 2

99. Divinity: Original Sin 2​

98. Final Fantasy VII​

97. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag​

96. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge​

95. Burnout 3: Takedown​

94. Fallout 2​

93. League of Legends​

92. Mega Man 3​

91. Animal Crossing: New Horizons​

90. Thief II: The Metal Age​

89. SimCity 2000​

88. Inside​

87. Titanfall 2​

86. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2​

85. Monster Hunter: World​

84. Resident Evil 2 (Remake)​

83. System Shock 2​

82. Mortal Kombat 11​

81. Persona 5 Royal​

80. Dark Souls​

79. Fortnite​

78. Fable 2​

77. GoldenEye 007​

76. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate​

75. Spelunky 2​

74. Return of the Obra Dinn​

73. Dota 2​

72. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe​

71. Donkey Kong​

70. The Sims 3​

69. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory​

68. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island​

67. Silent Hill 2​

66. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas​

65. XCOM 2​

64. Control​

63. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare​

62. Rise of the Tomb Raider​

61. Batman: Arkham City​

60. Dishonored 2​

59. The Witness​

58. Journey​

57. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves​

56. Overwatch​

55. Apex Legends​

54. Hollow Knight​

53. Ms. Pac-Man​

52. Counter-Strike 1.6​

51. Left 4 Dead 2​

50. EarthBound​

49. Diablo II​

48. StarCraft​

47. World of Warcraft​

46. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic​

45. Fallout: New Vegas​

44. Final Fantasy VI​

43. Pokémon Yellow​

42. Metroid Prime​

41. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim​

40. Resident Evil 4​

39. Shadow of the Colossus​

38. The Last of Us Part 2​

37. Red Dead Redemption​

36. Metal Gear Solid​

35. Sid Meier's Civilization IV​

34. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time​

33. Minecraft​

32. Halo: Combat Evolved​

31. Half-Life​

30. Final Fantasy XIV​

29. Doom​

28. Tetris​

27. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater​

26. Half-Life: Alyx​

25. God of War​

24. Chrono Trigger​

23. Portal​

22. Street Fighter II​

21. Super Mario Bros.​

20. Undertale​

19. Bloodborne​

18. BioShock​

17. The Last of Us​

16. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt​

15. Halo 2​

14. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night​

13. Hades​

12. Grand Theft Auto V​

11. Super Mario Bros. 3​

10. Disco Elysium​

9. Half-Life 2​

8. Red Dead Redemption 2​

7. Super Mario 64​

6. Mass Effect 2​

5. Super Metroid​

4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past​

3. Portal 2​

2. Super Mario World​

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild​

As previously mentioned, these lists are just pasted everywhere all over the internet, virtually ignore the history of PC gaming, and often exclude non-Nintendo consoles. Like as Falksi previously mentioned, two Marios and no Sonic in the top ten. No Deus Ex, no X-Com, no System Shock, no Planescape, etc, etc, etc. There is also the Wikipedia article "1994 in gaming" which I previously posted, where it didn't mention a single PC game, when X-Com, Doom 2, TIE Fighter and System Shock were all released that year.

That's the level of historical revisionism this thread seeks to redress.

Well, what game among older PC games do you think should be on this list? most of the games you mention have aged quite a bit.

Making a best-of list needs to be either historically based or based on the current day. The list you posted fails both criteria though, having Super Mario 3 on a current-day list is absurd, while a on historically based list it would fare very well.

There are very few games before 2000 that compare to newer games without nostalgia glasses.

There are tons of older games PC which destroy modern ones.

How on earth isn't Planescape Torment on there? I can't see another game there with a better story on there. PS:T and Deus Ex still stand up today as the two most thought-provoking stories I've ever played. Deus Ex half predicted the future with regards to I.T. manipulation and global virus scares. Nah, let's put some dumb "friends team up to kill God and save the world" shit like Chrono Trigger on there instead. Fuck philosophical questions like "what can change the nature of a man?", there's a big bad thing with no personality to go and kill.

X-Com '94 and Apocalypse both blow their modern counterparts away for tactical depth. I really like the new Firaxis games, but they're done with after a few plays as the pod system has been memorized; it completely destroys them. The old X-Coms you can replay a thousand times over with their very analogue nature. Wild that X-Com 2 is on there ahead of the older ones.

Duke Nuke 'Em still blow away most FPS games for excitement, gratification and sheer badassery.

Star Control 2 and Starflight do space exploration better than any Mass Effect. Star Control 1 is also literally space chess with action involved, you can play it forever 2-player. If Tetris is on there (which it is) Star Control is the next best example of simplicity used to create almost endless gameplay loop.

System Shock 2 actually requires the player to engage their brain a bit, and isn't just a largely un-interactive story like Bioshock is. Bioshocks gameplay does not even come close to matching the depth that System Shock 2 has in it's tree system. Again, the dumbed down version gets on the list.

Absolutely nothing comes close to Hexen 2 in modern gaming for brutal, challenging, dark fantasy FPS action with wicked level design. It's dark souls in FPS form, but with puzzles. And casual shit like Goldeneye is getting on the list ahead of it? Do me a favour.

Flashback still remains the best cinematic adventure game I'd ever played. God of War is piss poor by comparison in every way other than presentation.

Slightly outside of your date range (but not by much)...how the fuck is Baldurs Gate 2 not on there, but Divinity Original Sin 2 is? I'll give D:OS2 it's dues for it's combat system, but everything else from characters, to world, to pacing, to story, to builds, to replayability etc. are all significantly worse.

And I'm just sticking to PC there, and not bringing in the fact that the silly cunts who made the list featured arcade games like Ms. Pacman and Donkey Kong, yet missed off stuff like Afterburner, where you sat inside a moving cab and had the single most exciting, adrenaline rushing game experience which gaming has offered.

The list is fucking dire, and should contain both way more PC games and way more games from other systems in general. As Louis_Cypher says, it's made by very small-minded North Americans with very limited gaming experience, and who were clearly heavily raised on Nintendo. Not including at least 1 Sonic game in the entire list but 3 Mario games in the top 11 shows that bias very much.

And how is there not a Beat Em' Up like Streets of Rage in there? Or a SHMUP like Thunderforce 3 or 4 or DoDonpachi? The 80's and early 90's were built on those two genres, alongside RPGs I play SHMUPs more than any other genre because the intense excitement compliments the methodical contemplation of an RPG, but IGN doesn't even recognize the genre.

I'll stop there, because I'm only scratching the surface here lol. It's a list which bleeds normie-itus and "I played this game by watching it on Youtube" from it's core.

 

[Nutmeg]

Like I said, it's very questionable that you say that OPL3 is better than OPN2.

Sure, OK. You're saying that because OPN2 gave some more direct linear control over the shape of the waveform that somehow makes up for the the missing 6 2-op channels. You can't say that. That's retarded. At most you can say it is an apples to oranges comparison.

Again, why are you so hung up on this? It's like the 3rd time you've asked me to put all the necessary caveats to the comparison here but why?

Do you understand what this means exactly? I certainly don't. It's clear which line is better but in what way do the results differ from each other.

It's referring to knobs and levers the chips provided over the exact shape of the shape of the waveforms which were being modulated -- mainly to square off or linearize parts of the otherwise smooth perfect sinusoidal wave forms. It gives the resulting sound a different flavor, but you need to understand this functionality is not fundamental to the way FM synth operates or from where it derives its general power -- which is modulating a carrier signal (one operator) with a modulating signal (another operator) and then feeding that in further down the chain (if possible), and importantly, superimposition through different channels. Mathematically speaking, any signal can be described by simply superimposing enough sinusoidal functions:

so you don't strictly need enveloping (though it is a very important shortcut, but less important than FM itself, which too is a shortcut I suppose). Now if you knew the first thing about signal theory, you would know that, but I don't seem to be talking to someone who does, but someone who is just pulling random info from the internet and doesn't understand how things fit together.

I don't know what "algorithm" refers to in what you quoted as it is an incredibly broad term, but frankly I don't really care, because it seems like another lame attempt at a "gotcha" to achieve what exactly? I still don't understand the point you are trying to make.

 

[Mountain]

The issue surrounding Chrono Trigger is that this thread is about how history has been distorted by American journalists who grew up on the NES and/or SNES.

To recap some of the earlier high-quality discussion, the American coasts are an exception, where Europe was much more SEGA-heavy, with significant Master System and Megadrive uptake, plus a strong PC tradition on the continent. But because American journalists grew up with the SNES, they tend to over-emphasise it in histories of video gaming, resulting in an internet that is full of clickbait lists that ignore wider history, or often ignore all of PC - an old example to illustrate:

The Top 100 Video Games of All Time (IGN, 2021):​

100. Borderlands 2

99. Divinity: Original Sin 2​

98. Final Fantasy VII​

97. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag​

96. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge​

95. Burnout 3: Takedown​

94. Fallout 2​

93. League of Legends​

92. Mega Man 3​

91. Animal Crossing: New Horizons​

90. Thief II: The Metal Age​

89. SimCity 2000​

88. Inside​

87. Titanfall 2​

86. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2​

85. Monster Hunter: World​

84. Resident Evil 2 (Remake)​

83. System Shock 2​

82. Mortal Kombat 11​

81. Persona 5 Royal​

80. Dark Souls​

79. Fortnite​

78. Fable 2​

77. GoldenEye 007​

76. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate​

75. Spelunky 2​

74. Return of the Obra Dinn​

73. Dota 2​

72. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe​

71. Donkey Kong​

70. The Sims 3​

69. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory​

68. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island​

67. Silent Hill 2​

66. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas​

65. XCOM 2​

64. Control​

63. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare​

62. Rise of the Tomb Raider​

61. Batman: Arkham City​

60. Dishonored 2​

59. The Witness​

58. Journey​

57. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves​

56. Overwatch​

55. Apex Legends​

54. Hollow Knight​

53. Ms. Pac-Man​

52. Counter-Strike 1.6​

51. Left 4 Dead 2​

50. EarthBound​

49. Diablo II​

48. StarCraft​

47. World of Warcraft​

46. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic​

45. Fallout: New Vegas​

44. Final Fantasy VI​

43. Pokémon Yellow​

42. Metroid Prime​

41. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim​

40. Resident Evil 4​

39. Shadow of the Colossus​

38. The Last of Us Part 2​

37. Red Dead Redemption​

36. Metal Gear Solid​

35. Sid Meier's Civilization IV​

34. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time​

33. Minecraft​

32. Halo: Combat Evolved​

31. Half-Life​

30. Final Fantasy XIV​

29. Doom​

28. Tetris​

27. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater​

26. Half-Life: Alyx​

25. God of War​

24. Chrono Trigger​

23. Portal​

22. Street Fighter II​

21. Super Mario Bros.​

20. Undertale​

19. Bloodborne​

18. BioShock​

17. The Last of Us​

16. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt​

15. Halo 2​

14. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night​

13. Hades​

12. Grand Theft Auto V​

11. Super Mario Bros. 3​

10. Disco Elysium​

9. Half-Life 2​

8. Red Dead Redemption 2​

7. Super Mario 64​

6. Mass Effect 2​

5. Super Metroid​

4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past​

3. Portal 2​

2. Super Mario World​

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild​

As previously mentioned, these lists are just pasted everywhere all over the internet, virtually ignore the history of PC gaming, and often exclude non-Nintendo consoles. Like as Falksi previously mentioned, two Marios and no Sonic in the top ten. No Deus Ex, no X-Com, no System Shock, no Planescape, etc, etc, etc. There is also the Wikipedia article "1994 in gaming" which I previously posted, where it didn't mention a single PC game, when X-Com, Doom 2, TIE Fighter and System Shock were all released that year.

That's the level of historical revisionism this thread seeks to redress.

Well, what game among older PC games do you think should be on this list? most of the games you mention have aged quite a bit.

Making a best-of list needs to be either historically based or based on the current day. The list you posted fails both criteria though, having Super Mario 3 on a current-day list is absurd, while a on historically based list it would fare very well.

There are very few games before 2000 that compare to newer games without nostalgia glasses.

There are tons of older games PC which destroy modern ones.

How on earth isn't Planescape Torment on there? I can't see another game there with a better story on there. PS:T and Deus Ex still stand up today as the two most thought-provoking stories I've ever played. Deus Ex half predicted the future with regards to I.T. manipulation and global virus scares. Nah, let's put some dumb "friends team up to kill God and save the world" shit like Chrono Trigger on there instead. Fuck philosophical questions like "what can change the nature of a man?", there's a big bad thing with no personality to go and kill.

X-Com '94 and Apocalypse both blow their modern counterparts away for tactical depth. I really like the new Firaxis games, but they're done with after a few plays as the pod system has been memorized; it completely destroys them. The old X-Coms you can replay a thousand times over with their very analogue nature. Wild that X-Com 2 is on there ahead of the older ones.

Duke Nuke 'Em still blow away most FPS games for excitement, gratification and sheer badassery.

Star Control 2 and Starflight do space exploration better than any Mass Effect. Star Control 1 is also literally space chess with action involved, you can play it forever 2-player. If Tetris is on there (which it is) Star Control is the next best example of simplicity used to create almost endless gameplay loop.

System Shock 2 actually requires the player to engage their brain a bit, and isn't just a largely un-interactive story like Bioshock is. Bioshocks gameplay does not even come close to matching the depth that System Shock 2 has in it's tree system. Again, the dumbed down version gets on the list.

Absolutely nothing comes close to Hexen 2 in modern gaming for brutal, challenging, dark fantasy FPS action with wicked level design. It's dark souls in FPS form, but with puzzles. And casual shit like Goldeneye is getting on the list ahead of it? Do me a favour.

Flashback still remains the best cinematic adventure game I'd ever played. God of War is piss poor by comparison in every way other than presentation.

Slightly outside of your date range (but not by much)...how the fuck is Baldurs Gate 2 not on there, but Divinity Original Sin 2 is? I'll give D:OS2 it's dues for it's combat system, but everything else from characters, to world, to pacing, to story, to builds, to replayability etc. are all significantly worse.

And I'm just sticking to PC there, and not bringing in the fact that the silly cunts who made the list featured arcade games like Ms. Pacman and Donkey Kong, yet missed off stuff like Afterburner, where you sat inside a moving cab and had the single most exciting, adrenaline rushing game experience which gaming has offered.

The list is fucking dire, and should contain both way more PC games and way more games from other systems in general. As Louis_Cypher says, it's made by very small-minded North Americans with very limited gaming experience, and who were clearly heavily raised on Nintendo. Not including at least 1 Sonic game in the entire list but 3 Mario games in the top 11 shows that bias very much.

And how is there not a Beat Em' Up like Streets of Rage in there? Or a SHMUP like Thunderforce 3 or 4 or DoDonpachi? The 80's and early 90's were built on those two genres, alongside RPGs I play SHMUPs more than any other genre because the intense excitement compliments the methodical contemplation of an RPG, but IGN doesn't even recognize the genre.

I'll stop there, because I'm only scratching the surface here lol. It's a list which bleeds normie-itus and "I played this game by watching it on Youtube" from it's core.

This is what I am talking about, nostalgia glasses.

For example, the UFO Defense interface and perspective are horribly outdated. It's slow and corny to play. I played it through, it was the fucking shit back in the day, but now it's a relic that feels stiff and old.

Star Control 2's gameplay is like something from a kid's drawing. It's like something from a python coding tutorial.

System Shock 2 plays like punching through a carpet, it's extremely slow and awkward. It's worse than Daggerfall.

Flashback is a stickman simulator, it takes 2 minutes to walk across the screen. It was outdated 30 years ago.

Streets of Rage is like an hour-long tech demo.

All of this is just your bias and childhood affecting your views. It's nonsensical to compare this to newer games. Historically, they were great and important, but if you took 10.000 people with no biases or nostalgia in a room, 97% of people would rather play fucking Dirt 4 than any of this.

 

[Nutmeg]

Streets of Rage is like an hour-long tech demo.

JFC.

 

[Nutmeg]

Consoletard detected

PCtard detected. You are absolutely no better than our friend here. Just a different set of equivalently retarded biases.

 

[Melcar]

"The games I like are better than the ones you like" thread

 

[Nutmeg]

"The games I like are better than the ones you like" thread

Isn't that every thread on a gaming forum?

 

[Inec0rn]

I guess so.. I would play at least 1 AAA a year (not so much the last couple years) but sure.

- AOE4 can't remember music at all.
- Witcher, I know is good but honestly I only remember yoddling lady getting excited when you start battles.
- Capcom games..... Sure, they have a repetitive hook in them.
- ffx I know is good but don't remember and that guy's earlier midi work is equally amazing.
- Souls like games, do these games have music?
- Anno all the games effectively have the same score and you put in soany hours you never want to hear it again.
- same for Beth / tes games.

Shrug..

Video game music is 100 times bigger than ever, and it's more about looking in the right spot than the music not being there.

I have dusk and again didn't think much of it's score, I could probably list 100 here, midi game music was best.

 

[Nutmeg]

Consoles couldn't even handle a lot of the best DOS games in that era; imagine trying to run X-Com on a SNES - it lacked either the processor power or the essential high-fidelity mouse controls to run a game that deep - it's shockingly multi-layered. Same for something like X-Wing or TIE Fighter. A console would have struggled with just the battle map of X-Com, never mind having a global strategic layer, and base-building layer.

What do you mean "of that era"? You are comparing games made for IBM PC compatibles in 1994, the year the PS1 and Saturn were released, with the Super Famicom released in 1990.

 

[Nutmeg]

midi game music was best.

None of Shadow of the Beast (Paula), Super Metroid (S-SMP), Tyrian (OPL-3), Star Control 2 (tracker software) are MIDI.

Not sure about the Dune 2 track you posted.

 

[Morenatsu.]

System Shock 2 plays like punching through a carpet, it's extremely slow and awkward. It's worse than Daggerfall.

System Shock 2 the game where I was doing backflips around enemies? Maybe you got it confused with Bioschlock. It's okay, I won't forgive you.

 

[Inec0rn]

midi game music was best.

None of Shadow of the Beast (Paula), Super Metroid (S-SMP), Tyrian (OPL-3), Star Control 2 (tracker software) are MIDI.

Not sure about the Dune 2 track you posted.

Are you sure about that? As you can use coolmidi etc to change the samples etc. and most these games have the obligatory /w Roland mt-32 etc.

Dune2 / Westwood, constantly had excellent music throughout pretty much all their releases. Kyrandia, EoB, Lands of Lore, CnC etc. I think part of their secret sauce.

 

[Nutmeg]

midi game music was best.

None of Shadow of the Beast (Paula), Super Metroid (S-SMP), Tyrian (OPL-3), Star Control 2 (tracker software) are MIDI.

Not sure about the Dune 2 track you posted.

Are you sure about that? As you can use coolmidi etc to change the samples etc. and most these games have the obligatory /w Roland mt-32 etc.

Dune2 / Westwood, constantly had excellent music throughout pretty much all their releases. Kyrandia, EoB, Lands of Lore, CnC etc. I think part of their secret sauce.

Tyrian had MIDI support, but the recording you posted was OPL3, not MIDI. Says as much in the video description.

Dune 2 also indeed has MIDI support, but also has OPL2 and OPL3 support. Dunno what's being used in the recording you shared.

Shadow of the Beast is an Amiga game which AFAIK is just directly using the on-board Paula chip as almost all Amiga games did.

The Star Control 2 recording states it's a mod file (so not MIDI) being played by a software mod synth.

Super Metroid is a a Super Famicom game, which directly used the onboard S-SMP chip (also not MIDI)

 

[Inec0rn]

Ok I see you are being very specific and I'm generalising. I'm effectively talking about games synthesising their music off a lightweight file rather than full-blown recorded, mastered and burnt to CD audio.

The older shit is better for videogames.

 

[Nutmeg]

Ok I see you are being very specific and I'm generalising. I'm effectively talking about games synthesising their music off a lightweight file rather than full-blown recorded, mastered and burnt to CD audio.

Yes correct. The general word is synth, not MIDI tho as MIDI was just an interface to a certain set of hardware (or software) synths. Games which synthesized sound neither necessarily supported MIDI, nor did games that did support it necessarily have their music composed on or for MIDI compatible synths (i.e. some MIDI game music (or other audio) was merely "arranged" for MIDI).

And yeah you're right, synthesis is different from just playing back a huge stream of PCM data (i.e. what's on a CD). Sometimes synth commands weren't even stored in files (or chunk of ROM or whatever) but were "procedurally generated" (if you will), famous example being Lucas Arts' "iMUSE" system.

 

[Nutmeg]

The older shit is better for videogames.

This is debatable. If all you were doing with synth was playing back a static sequence, then preference for synth is just the preference for a specific (set of) electronic instruments, the output of which you could just record anyway, put on a CD and save the consumer some money on an expensive sound card (provided that a CD drive was cheaper than an expensive synth, or was an already sunk cost), which is basically what ended up happening.

Where synth has an advantage over being just an instrument type (which some might prefer) is the fact that you can programmatically compose or manipulate the music, which not many games took advantage of sadly.

Today CPUs are powerful enough to do any kind of synth in software without causing any kind of real performance hit, so there's no real need for synth hardware anymore. That's what emulators do, after all. How accurately against a specific hardware reference is a different question, as is how much is lost to digitization.

 

[Inec0rn]

I think it's the limitations of the hardware of the time made some composers more creative. A lot of the time i feel modern counterparts don't actually take stock of the game and what is happening in it when they create music for it, they just make a big bombastic score. Super metroid is masterpiece level score, the music fits perfectly with what you are doing in game, as does something like Legend of Kyrandia (fantastic OST by Frank Klepacki) released DOS and Amiga in 1992.

 

[Ash]

Consoles couldn't even handle a lot of the best DOS games in that era; imagine trying to run X-Com

Interesting you raise this question - Xcom was ported to the playstation and the Amiga. You're contributing to the revisionism and blabbering nonsense. You're better than that.

There are very few games before 2000 that compare to newer games without nostalgia glasses.

You, however, are not better. Of all the vast wealth of amazing games pre-2000 that embarrass the hell out of the majority of modern braindead soulless garbage, you choose Earthbound and Chronotrigger. Those aren't even remotely notable accomplishments among the glory of 90s games. In fact they're barely games at all. You are 100% the problem we're talking about. You celebrate non-games as accomplishments over real ones with 50x the depth. You don't know video games beyond your nintendo and modern brainrot, and even among those limited parameters your exposure is obviously lacking. You parade around the internet spreading ignorant propaganda that gamers 100 years from now will have a hard time filtering historical fact from foolishness. You cluelessly aim to erase the superiority of game design history by claiming very little of the golden era was good, when anyone adequately experienced will know that things were generally better back then. Please leave.