Historical Revisionism in Video Game and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Maxie]

Funnily enough, I've just partaken in a conversation on Facebook which went as follows:

OP: What system should I get next?

Nintendo Fanboys: SwItCh!!

Me: But it's outdated and far less powerful than it's rivals. Plus the software for it is far more expensive than on other systems too. After the initial hardware outlay, you're usually paying more for less.

Nintendo Fanboys: BuT NiNteNdo ExClusIveS aRe da BEST!!"

Me: But you can emulate those on other systems, other systems which have more games available than the Switch does too.

Nintendo Fanboys: YeaH, bUt thaTs ILLEGAL!!

Me: Anyone in their right mind doesn't give a fuck about multi-billion dollar corporations coining it it. By all means support smaller devs, but worrying about Nintendo not getting your money is like worrying about England not getting enough rain.

Nintendo Fanboys: BuT I LiKe My GaMeS pOrtabLe!

Me: Steam Deck

Nintendo Fanboys:

Honestly, it's fucking pathetic. It was just sad copes from fanboys desperately trying to spread their religion; there's hardly any objectivity with hardcore Nintendo fans to the point where it almost feels like a cult. It's a collective of America's most retarded people all sharing the same hobby and poisoning it for the rest of us.

I mean, folk are focusing on the SEGA Vs Nintendo debate, but it extends everywhere as highlighted in Louis_Cypher 's post above. I bought Starfox as a kid, enjoyed it for like 3 days, then grew bored because of it because it felt slow and was too easy. It was novel but not a particularly great game. Fast forward a few weeks and X-Wing blew me away, couldn not stop playing t for months, WAY better than Starfox...but which gets recognition? Starfox.

Goldneye is the same. Sure, it bought multiplayer FPS gaming to console-only players, which is cool, but I had a similar experience with it as I did Starfox. I bought it, really enjoyed it for a short while, then got Hexen 2 a short while afterwards and Quake 2 a short while after that and both showed Goldeneye up to be pretty mediocre by comparison. Normies will wax lyrical about Goldeneye's 4-player awesomeness, then dismiss those of us who were LAN'd up on Hexen 2 or Quake with often double that amount of players.

I mean, this is the type of shit they spout...

to be frank chrono trigger is indeed more appealing than pst

 

[JarlFrank]

Americans need to be banned from any gaming community. America is the land of consolefaggotry. Even Japan, where PC gamers are rare, is less consolefaggy than the American mainstream.

Meanwhile based Europeans are PC gamers to the core. Only peasants own consoles here.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Oh BTW, while we are talking about Nintendo sacred cows, let me just say something about "Ocarina of Time", and it's worshippers.

The famous transition between 2D fouth-generation consoles (beautiful late sprites), and 3D fifth generation consoles (ugly ass early polygons), had the console companies forcing all their mascots into ugly 3D games. The worst of course was Sonic. He clearly only works as a 2D gameplay concept, but was forced into 3D games to disasterous results. The best was probably Metroid Prime. The Saturn was a 2D powerhouse, so Sonic could have had a long career as a late-2D game like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, but that is another story.

But "Ocarina of Time", despite being hailed as some childhood epic, a watershed of games design, was no flawless transition, and is inferior in a lot of ways to "A Link to the Past". I would argue that Zelda in fact, like Sonic, was a pretty ackward transition, working better in 2D, although fixable, and subsequently done better. I found OoT annoying in many ways, for reasons that this random YouTuber explains quite well in this video - including the Z-axis targeting being immersion breaking compared to the the open isometric combat of the 2D Zelda games:

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Nintendo Fanboys: SwItCh!!

Me: But it's outdated and far less powerful than it's rivals. Plus the software for it is far more expensive than on other systems too. After the initial hardware outlay, you're usually paying more for less.

Power doesn't really come into it. I agree with a lot of what you're saying but power isn't really an argument in console space. I'd rather have a PS3 than a PS5 despite the power difference.

e: But you can emulate those on other systems, other systems which have more games available than the Switch does too.

Nintendo Fanboys: YeaH, bUt thaTs ILLEGAL!!

Me: Anyone in their right mind doesn't give a fuck about multi-billion dollar corporations coining it it. By all means support smaller devs, but worrying about Nintendo not getting your money is like worrying about England not getting enough rain.

Nintendo Fanboys: BuT I LiKe My GaMeS pOrtabLe!

Me: Steam Deck

Emulation is really easy on the Steam deck but it's not powerful enough to run Switch games. I tried TTOK and it barely hit 20 FPS. Steam deck is really good for a tinkerer and someone who likes messing with PCs. But as a casual product I would never buy one for someone else. Too many games on Steam don't work on the deck and there's no native way to know that until you buy or search protondb. You have to install a third party tool to be told what works and doesn't. It still has a long way to go for normalfags functionality.

I would debate how portable the Steam deck is. The switch is already too large to really be portable. The new handhelds are machines you set up when you're not moving around. Like the steam deck is amazing on the sofa or if you're in a hotel over night but I'm not taking it on the bus the way I would a GBA.

I like my deck way more than my switch but I wouldn't consider them the same market. Ones a filthy console market and the other is a linux PC with some of the steam library running on it.

Even Japan, where PC gamers are rare, is less consolefaggy than the American mainstream.

Laughs in slant eyed NES obsession

The worst of course was Sonic. He clearly only works as a 2D gameplay concept, but was forced into 3D games to disasterous results.

Sonic adventure was well made for its time and quite good all things considering. It's the 2nd one that fucks up and they continue to build on it's flaws (too large a cast. Too many gimmicks like rail sliding. Super linear levels with death pits either side making speed lethal).

 

[Falksi]

Nintendo Fanboys: SwItCh!!

Me: But it's outdated and far less powerful than it's rivals. Plus the software for it is far more expensive than on other systems too. After the initial hardware outlay, you're usually paying more for less.

Power doesn't really come into it. I agree with a lot of what you're saying but power isn't really an argument in console space. I'd rather have a PS3 than a PS5 despite the power difference.

e: But you can emulate those on other systems, other systems which have more games available than the Switch does too.

Nintendo Fanboys: YeaH, bUt thaTs ILLEGAL!!

Me: Anyone in their right mind doesn't give a fuck about multi-billion dollar corporations coining it it. By all means support smaller devs, but worrying about Nintendo not getting your money is like worrying about England not getting enough rain.

Nintendo Fanboys: BuT I LiKe My GaMeS pOrtabLe!

Me: Steam Deck

Emulation is really easy on the Steam deck but it's not powerful enough to run Switch games. I tried TTOK and it barely hit 20 FPS. Steam deck is really good for a tinkerer and someone who likes messing with PCs. But as a casual product I would never buy one for someone else. Too many games on Steam don't work on the deck and there's no native way to know that until you buy or search protondb. You have to install a third party tool to be told what works and doesn't. It still has a long way to go for normalfags functionality.

I would debate how portable the Steam deck is. The switch is already too large to really be portable. The new handhelds are machines you set up when you're not moving around. Like the steam deck is amazing on the sofa or if you're in a hotel over night but I'm not taking it on the bus the way I would a GBA.

I like my deck way more than my switch but I wouldn't consider them the same market. Ones a filthy console market and the other is a linux PC with some of the steam library running on it.

Even Japan, where PC gamers are rare, is less consolefaggy than the American mainstream.

Laughs in slant eyed NES obsession

The worst of course was Sonic. He clearly only works as a 2D gameplay concept, but was forced into 3D games to disasterous results.

Sonic adventure was well made for its time and quite good all things considering. It's the 2nd one that fucks up and they continue to build on it's flaws (too large a cast. Too many gimmicks like rail sliding. Super linear levels with death pits either side making speed lethal).

I really don't get anyone saying the Deck isn't portable. Maybe I've just really big hands or something, but I literally carry mine round when I go from place to place in one hand.

Also, the point of the post is to show how blinkered they are, which is what my counter points were based on. If I were being honest about the games it'd simply be "TOTK & Nintendo's exclusive are wank now, and not worth playing". Honestly, TOTK was one of the worst games I played of 2023, dull AF.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Sonic adventure was well made for its time and quite good all things considering.

I played it on release, being a Sega and Sonic guy, and it was a shit idea. The game might make the best of this forced transition to 3D, but it doesn't make the transition itself wise to begin with. Sonic, the physical object, is fundamentally, a "pinball". Thus his levels are like the inside of a pinball machine; contrained to a 2D plain by a glass wall. Removing the glass and giving him a Z-axis is terrible; now he is lost in a big empty world, which must have inexplicable roadways to force some kind of lineality into a 3D environment.

It doesn't work, it never has worked, it never will work, and everyone introspective knew this before they even tried it. Sonic Adventure can be some one-off gimmick side-game, but Sonic should be a 2D side-scroller franchise. Instead Sonic Adventure is the template for a 3D platformer franchise. It also ruined the strongly-established Sonic aesthetic, but that's another story.

 

[Viata]

Funnily enough, I've just partaken in a conversation on Facebook which went as follows:

OP: What system should I get next?

Nintendo Fanboys: SwItCh!!

Me: But it's outdated and far less powerful than it's rivals. Plus the software for it is far more expensive than on other systems too. After the initial hardware outlay, you're usually paying more for less.

Nintendo Fanboys: BuT NiNteNdo ExClusIveS aRe da BEST!!"

Me: But you can emulate those on other systems, other systems which have more games available than the Switch does too.

Nintendo Fanboys: YeaH, bUt thaTs ILLEGAL!!

Me: Anyone in their right mind doesn't give a fuck about multi-billion dollar corporations coining it it. By all means support smaller devs, but worrying about Nintendo not getting your money is like worrying about England not getting enough rain.

Nintendo Fanboys: BuT I LiKe My GaMeS pOrtabLe!

Me: Steam Deck

Nintendo Fanboys:

Honestly, it's fucking pathetic. It was just sad copes from fanboys desperately trying to spread their religion; there's hardly any objectivity with hardcore Nintendo fans to the point where it almost feels like a cult. It's a collective of America's most retarded people all sharing the same hobby and poisoning it for the rest of us.

I mean, folk are focusing on the SEGA Vs Nintendo debate, but it extends everywhere as highlighted in Louis_Cypher 's post above. I bought Starfox as a kid, enjoyed it for like 3 days, then grew bored because of it because it felt slow and was too easy. It was novel but not a particularly great game. Fast forward a few weeks and X-Wing blew me away, couldn not stop playing t for months, WAY better than Starfox...but which gets recognition? Starfox.

Goldneye is the same. Sure, it bought multiplayer FPS gaming to console-only players, which is cool, but I had a similar experience with it as I did Starfox. I bought it, really enjoyed it for a short while, then got Hexen 2 a short while afterwards and Quake 2 a short while after that and both showed Goldeneye up to be pretty mediocre by comparison. Normies will wax lyrical about Goldeneye's 4-player awesomeness, then dismiss those of us who were LAN'd up on Hexen 2 or Quake with often double that amount of players.

I mean, this is the type of shit they spout...

to be frank chrono trigger is indeed more appealing than pst

It's funny they are comparing PST with a JRPG.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Star Trek games never really took off did they? Even the good ones and easy to digest stuff never got much attention. It's weird to think how meme worthy Trek is now cause of the geek fad while being utterly devoid of any real substance culturally. Trekkies were a niche within a niche and did decent enough viewing figures to keep a low budget (as most were) sci fi series afloat. Now it's treated like some holy monument that it never was. A lot like Star wars between the original trilogy ending and the remasters being release. The series really didn't do much outside of it's own small niche of novels and games until Lucas revved up the marketing machine again for the prequels.

Star Trek has a complicated legacy. The popularity of something doesn't reflect it's influence or power. Star Trek was the first science fiction on television to really do space opera 'procedural' justice. It got a standing ovation among science fiction literary fans at an early convention during a test screening if I remember right, i.e. was respected by scientists, literary sci-fi hobbyists and genre authors. It's influence extended deep into geekdom, with a lot of crossover with the first PC gamers and programmers. You could argue the male-dominated wargamer-side of the Star Trek hobby (as opposed to the character-centric female-dominated side), was almost as synonymous with early PC gaming as D&D players, and that this side of Star Trek flourished more in gaming than TV. In gaming terms, it was never going to be anything but a niche, yet produced startlingly faithful video game adaptations, some of which are masterworks. I don't want to get too far off topic however. You can check out the Top 40 Star Trek Games list I wrote up for the Codex, if you are interested. A few notable ones:

---

01). Star Trek: The Next Generation - Birth of the Federation (PC)
Developer: MicroProse | Publisher: Hasbro Interactive | 1999

---

02). Star Trek: Judgement Rites (PC)
Developer: Interplay Entertainment | Publisher: Interplay Entertainment | 1993

---

03). Star Trek: Klingon Academy (PC)
Developer: 14 Degrees East | Publisher: Interplay Entertainment | 2000

---

04). Star Trek: The Next Generation - A Final Unity (PC)
Developer: Spectrum HoloByte | Publisher: MicroProse | 1995

---

05). EGA Trek (PC)
Developer: Arcanum Computing | Publisher: Sofsource Inc | 1988

---

06). Star Trek: 25th Anniversary (PC)
Developer: Interplay Entertainment | Publisher: Interplay Entertainment | 1992

---

07). Star Trek: Starfleet Academy (PC)
Developer: Interplay Entertainment | Publisher: Interplay Entertainment | 1997

---

08). Star Trek: The Next Generation - Klingon Honor Guard (PC)
Developer: MicroProse | Publisher: MicroProse | 1998

---

09). Star Trek: Voyager - Elite Force (PC)
Developer: Raven Software | Publisher: Activision | 2000

---

10). Star Trek: Generations (PC)
Developer: MicroProse | Publisher: MicroProse | 1997

---

11). Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - The Fallen (PC)
Developer: The Collective | Publisher: Simon and Schuster | 2000

---

12). Star Trek: Starfleet Command (PC)
Developer: 14 Degrees East & Quicksilver Software | Publisher: Interplay Entertainment | 1999

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Sonic adventure was well made for its time and quite good all things considering.

I played it on release, being a Sega and Sonic guy, and it was a shit idea. The game might make the best of this forced transition to 3D, but it doesn't make the transition itself wise to begin with. Sonic, the physical object, is fundamentally, a "pinball". Thus his levels are like the inside of a pinball machine; contrained to a 2D plain by a glass wall. Removing the glass and giving him a Z-axis is terrible; now he is lost in a big empty world, which must have inexplicable roadways to force some kind of lineality into a 3D environment.

It doesn't work, it never has worked, it never will work, and everyone introspective knew this before they even tried it. Sonic Adventure can be some one-off gimmick side-game, but Sonic should be a 2D side-scroller franchise. Instead Sonic Adventure is the template for a 3D platformer franchise. It also ruined the strongly-established Sonic aesthetic, but that's another story.

The hub areas were pretty cool and the atmospheres pretty solid. I still enjoy it to this day TBH. I don't care about Sonic's leg size or arm colour personally.

Sonic couldn't have survived staying 2D. Even really solid 2D platformers were getting torn to shreds by the 3D revolution. Sonic had to evolve into 3D in some fashion or it would have been the end of the series. There were other experiments like 3d Blast but it really wasn't working. Adventure got an extremely good reception and probably sold a lot of dreamcasts. And it's aged a lot better than jet set radio did and that's considered amazing for some reason.

Star Trek has a complicated legacy. The popularity of something doesn't reflect it's influence or power. Star Trek was the first science fiction on television to really do space opera 'procedural' justice. It got a standing ovation among science fiction literary fans at an early convention during a test screening if I remember right, i.e. was respected by scientists, literary sci-fi hobbyists and genre authors. It's influence extended deep into geekdom, with a lot of crossover with the first PC gamers and programmers. You could argue the male-dominated wargamer-side of the Star Trek hobby (as opposed to the character-centric female-dominated side), was almost as synonymous with early PC gaming as D&D players, and that this side of Star Trek flourished more in gaming than TV. In gaming terms, it was never going to be anything but a niche, yet produced startlingly faithful video game adaptations, some of which are masterworks. I don't want to get too far off topic however. You can check out the Top 50 Star Trek Games list I wrote up for the Codex, if you are interested. A few notable ones:

I was part of that crowd so I understand it's history but trekkies were bullied even in nerd circles back then. It's like today Back to the future is THE reddit movie that's universally praised when 10 years ago it was just a decent 80's movie and it wasn't constantly being held up as some cultural icon. I guess when culture declines so bad star trek is your cultural heritage something is deeply wrong in general.

 

[Nutmeg]

There's not ONE SHMUP or Beat 'Em Up on there for example

It's a crime.

 

[Falksi]

There's not ONE SHMUP or Beat 'Em Up on there for example

It's a crime.

Yup. And thinking about it, what makes this worse is that there are 3 Super Mario platform games in the top 11.

I'd kinda get the omission of...what are deemed...simpler games/genres if there was a leaning towards more epic, deeper games overall. But seeing 3 very simple platformers in that top 11 show that's not the case.

How the fuck can they seriously say "80's/90's platformers are pretty much better than every other game from every other genre...but SHMUPs and Beat 'Em Ups don't have ONE single entry of not worth putting in the top 100"

It's a list made by blind spastics with no thumbs.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Here is that GQ list BTW:

The 100 greatest video games of all time, ranked by experts (GQ Magazine, 2023)​

100. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2004)​

99. Rez (2001)​

98. Age Of Empires II: The Age of Kings (1999)​

97. The Return of the Obra Dinn (2018)​

96. Super Mario Bros (1985)​

95. Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss (1992)​

94. Okami (2006)​

93. Fable II (2008)​

92. Mass Effect (2007)​

91. Grand Theft Auto IV (2008)​

90. Super Mario Kart (1992)​

89. Hitman: World of Assassination (2016 - 2021)​

88. The Last Guardian (2016)​

87. Super Mario Odyssey (2017)​

86. Civilization V (2010)​

85. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (2013)​

84. Shenmue (1999)​

83. Bioshock Infinite (2013)​

82. Dragon Age: Origins (2009)​

81. Fortnite (2017)​

80. Firewatch (2016)​

79. Tetris Effect (2018)​

78. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 2 (2000)​

77. The Secret of Monkey Island (1990)​

76. Pokémon Gold and Silver (1999)​

75. Metroid Prime (2002)​

74. Undertale (2015)​

73. Final Fantasy VI (1994)​

72. Yakuza 0 (2015)​

71. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (2007)​

70. Left 4 Dead 2 (2009)​

69. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (2000)​

68. Thief: The Dark Project (1998)​

67. The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (2002)​

66. Fallout New Vegas (2010)​

65. GoldenEye 007 (1997)​

64. Persona 5 (2016)​

63. The Sims 2 (2004)​

62. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (1997)​

61. Grand Theft Auto III (2001)​

60. Super Metroid (1994)​

59. Fallout 3 (2008)​

58. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (2006)​

57. Final Fantasy IX (2000)​

56. Inside (2016)​

55. Hollow Knight (2016)​

54. Ico (2001)​

53. Dishonored 2 (2016)​

52. Half-Life (1998)​

51. Final Fantasy X (2001)​

50. Spelunky (2008)​

49. Stardew Valley (2016)​

48. Grand Theft Auto V (2013)​

47. God of War (2018)​

46. Destiny (2014)​

45. Halo 3 (2007)​

44. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (2003)​

43. Nier Automata (2017)​

42. Chrono Trigger (1995)​

41. The Sims (2000)​

40. Super Mario Galaxy (2007)​

39. What Remains of Edith Finch (2017)​

38. Hades (2020)​

37. Silent Hill 2 (2001)​

36. Super Mario Bros 3 (1991)​

35. Portal (2007)​

34. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (2009)​

33. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (2004)​

32. Deus Ex (2000)​

31. Shadow of the Colossus (2005)​

30. Outer Wilds (2019)​

29. Journey (2012)​

28. The Last of Us Part II (2020)​

27. Street Fighter II (1991)​

26. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (1991)​

25. Pokémon Red & Blue (1996)​

24. Minecraft (2011)​

23. Bioshock (2007)​

22. World of Warcraft (2004)​

21. Halo: Combat Evolved (2001)​

20. Elden Ring (2022)​

19. Doom (1993)​

18. Super Mario 64 (1996)​

17. Final Fantasy VII (1997)​

16. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (2011)​

15. Red Dead Redemption II (2018)​

14. Super Mario World (1990)​

13. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)​

12. Disco Elysium (2019)​

11. Resident Evil 4 (2005)​

10. Half-Life 2 (2004)​

9. Dark Souls (2011)​

8. Portal 2 (2011)​

7. Metal Gear Solid (1998)​

6. Mass Effect 2​

5. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt (2015)​

4. Bloodborne (2015)​

3. Tetris (1985)​

2. The Last of Us (2013)​

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (2017)​

So, another travesty. It's actually slightly better, maybe 7% better, than the IGN one - at least Deus Ex and Thief somehow made it on, albiet lower than some utter shit, as if someone just read that they are 'important' and included them to fill a spot. Reading that last IGN list, seeing Assassin's Creed on there, and not seeing PC gaming's GOATs, was immediately risible, but it got worse. If IGN or GQ are going by "most important", it is certainly an absurd list beyond belief. If they are going by "fun to play", half the games again aren't even fun, some being Hollywood-chasing interactive cutscene fests. If they are going by "popularity", even that makes no sense. It reads more like a random compilation of "what the press was promoting heavily at a given time"; you could fill a top 500 without listing 90% of what they included.

About the only thing I agreed with on the IGN list was placing Super Metroid highly, as I think that game does actually deserve it's rep. I do like Mass Effect, contrary to a lot of Codexians, but it's for different reasons than it's gaming credentials; I'm a space opera fan, and it was a remarkable feat of world-building.

I remember when Gamerankings existed, Metroid Prime 1 used to be the highest ranked game of the 5th console generation, with a 99% average, and I think SoulCalibur 1 is (rightly) quite high on Metacritic now. However, PC games of course were regularily churning out GOATs around then that hardly get a mention.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Gaming is moving forward at crawl speed, whereas gaming culture is regressing at light speed.

There is no Gaming Culture, because there is no Gaming Community. There are many separate communities with their own cultures.

Uhuh, there are gamers and "Gamers", thats about it really.

 

[JarlFrank]

Mainstreamers, including mainstream journalists, are entirely ignorant of video game history. All they have is the barest surface level knowledge but they're too proud to admit it.

I will openly admit that I never owned a console in my life and my knowledge of console games is rudimentary at best, but I have a deep knowledge of PC gaming and its various genres, the many different PCs that existed in the 80s and 90s, and even some obscure shit like Mac-exclusive indie RPGs I wouldn't expect anyone to know about. But even when it comes to consoles I have a rough idea about what genres were popular when.

These surface-level "experts" know absolutely nothing about genres that aren't popular right now. And that list is pretty big: point & click adventures, shmups, fighting games, racing games, classic CRPGs, etc. Even for 2D platformers they usually just pick the Marios. I haven't seen a single PC platformer on such a list before, even though the Commander Keen games are top tier. Jazz Jackrabbit is forgotten too, even though Sonic with guns is such a cool concept.

 

[Falksi]

Here is that GQ list BTW:

The 100 greatest video games of all time, ranked by experts (GQ Magazine, 2023)​

100. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2004)​

99. Rez (2001)​

98. Age Of Empires II: The Age of Kings (1999)​

97. The Return of the Obra Dinn (2018)​

96. Super Mario Bros (1985)​

95. Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss (1992)​

94. Okami (2006)​

93. Fable II (2008)​

92. Mass Effect (2007)​

91. Grand Theft Auto IV (2008)​

90. Super Mario Kart (1992)​

89. Hitman: World of Assassination (2016 - 2021)​

88. The Last Guardian (2016)​

87. Super Mario Odyssey (2017)​

86. Civilization V (2010)​

85. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (2013)​

84. Shenmue (1999)​

83. Bioshock Infinite (2013)​

82. Dragon Age: Origins (2009)​

81. Fortnite (2017)​

80. Firewatch (2016)​

79. Tetris Effect (2018)​

78. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 2 (2000)​

77. The Secret of Monkey Island (1990)​

76. Pokémon Gold and Silver (1999)​

75. Metroid Prime (2002)​

74. Undertale (2015)​

73. Final Fantasy VI (1994)​

72. Yakuza 0 (2015)​

71. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (2007)​

70. Left 4 Dead 2 (2009)​

69. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (2000)​

68. Thief: The Dark Project (1998)​

67. The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (2002)​

66. Fallout New Vegas (2010)​

65. GoldenEye 007 (1997)​

64. Persona 5 (2016)​

63. The Sims 2 (2004)​

62. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (1997)​

61. Grand Theft Auto III (2001)​

60. Super Metroid (1994)​

59. Fallout 3 (2008)​

58. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (2006)​

57. Final Fantasy IX (2000)​

56. Inside (2016)​

55. Hollow Knight (2016)​

54. Ico (2001)​

53. Dishonored 2 (2016)​

52. Half-Life (1998)​

51. Final Fantasy X (2001)​

50. Spelunky (2008)​

49. Stardew Valley (2016)​

48. Grand Theft Auto V (2013)​

47. God of War (2018)​

46. Destiny (2014)​

45. Halo 3 (2007)​

44. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (2003)​

43. Nier Automata (2017)​

42. Chrono Trigger (1995)​

41. The Sims (2000)​

40. Super Mario Galaxy (2007)​

39. What Remains of Edith Finch (2017)​

38. Hades (2020)​

37. Silent Hill 2 (2001)​

36. Super Mario Bros 3 (1991)​

35. Portal (2007)​

34. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (2009)​

33. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (2004)​

32. Deus Ex (2000)​

31. Shadow of the Colossus (2005)​

30. Outer Wilds (2019)​

29. Journey (2012)​

28. The Last of Us Part II (2020)​

27. Street Fighter II (1991)​

26. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (1991)​

25. Pokémon Red & Blue (1996)​

24. Minecraft (2011)​

23. Bioshock (2007)​

22. World of Warcraft (2004)​

21. Halo: Combat Evolved (2001)​

20. Elden Ring (2022)​

19. Doom (1993)​

18. Super Mario 64 (1996)​

17. Final Fantasy VII (1997)​

16. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (2011)​

15. Red Dead Redemption II (2018)​

14. Super Mario World (1990)​

13. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)​

12. Disco Elysium (2019)​

11. Resident Evil 4 (2005)​

10. Half-Life 2 (2004)​

9. Dark Souls (2011)​

8. Portal 2 (2011)​

7. Metal Gear Solid (1998)​

6. Mass Effect 2​

5. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt (2015)​

4. Bloodborne (2015)​

3. Tetris (1985)​

2. The Last of Us (2013)​

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (2017)​

So, another travesty. It's actually slightly better, maybe 7% better, than the IGN one - at least Deus Ex and Thief somehow made it on, albiet lower than some utter shit, as if someone just read that they are 'important' and included them to fill a spot. Reading that last IGN list, seeing Assassin's Creed on there, and not seeing PC gaming's GOATs, was immediately risible, but it got worse. If IGN or GQ are going by "most important", it is certainly an absurd list beyond belief. If they are going by "fun to play", half the games again aren't even fun, some being Hollywood-chasing interactive cutscene fests. If they are going by "popularity", even that makes no sense. It reads more like a random compilation of "what the press was promoting heavily at a given time"; you could fill a top 500 without listing 90% of what they included.

About the only thing I agreed with on the IGN list was placing Super Metroid highly, as I think that game does actually deserve it's rep. I do like Mass Effect, contrary to a lot of Codexians, but it's for different reasons than it's gaming credentials; I'm a space opera fan, and it was a remarkable feat of world-building.

I remember when Gamerankings existed, Metroid Prime 1 used to be the highest ranked game of the 5th console generation, with a 99% average, and I think SoulCalibur 1 is (rightly) quite high on Metacritic now. However, PC games of course were regularily churning out GOATs around then that hardly get a mention.

You know what game series simply HAS to be in a top 100 or that list becomes invalid for me?

Star Control.

I have lost fucking thousands of hours to the first two games, with the first game's two-player mode eating away at night after night when the lads would come over and we'd pop random-ship melee mode on.

In fact for me either of the first Star Control games simply have to be in the top 10. That's a personal preference, but even objectively speaking I don't think there is a better example of competitive gaming balance. Even though I love the Street Fighter 2 series, I really don't get how that can feature at number 27 and what is essentially Street Fighter in space....but with an additional layer of strategy, tactics and roleplaying...can be ignored in the whole 100.

I mean, fucking Undertale's in there How the fuck does that work? Star Control 2 no place, Undertale 74th...arggghhhh.....my brain!!....

 

[Vic]

Mainstreamers, including mainstream journalists, are entirely ignorant of video game history. All they have is the barest surface level knowledge but they're too proud to admit it.

yes but they're really just crying about losing the console war

 

[JarlFrank]

PC gamers during the console war were like the Swiss during WW2, just sitting on a pile of treasure

 

[caffeine]

Oh BTW, while we are talking about Nintendo sacred cows, let me just say something about "Ocarina of Time", and it's worshippers.

OoT generates some weird revisionism in general, which is funny. Nintendildos often point out that OoT invented lock-on systems (what they call z-targetting to make it sound fancier), but when you tell them the mechanic existed in previous games, they get angry and tell you "well, they don't count because they weren't as POLISHED as OoT", absolute goalpost moving with a good dose of subjectivity. Also, they love to name devs citing OoT as their biggest inspiration, like the GTA3 devs. When you ask them how in the hell does GTA 3 play like OoT at all, they start going "uuuuhhh... do you KNOW more about VIDEO GAMES than actual DEVELOPERS??????? checkmate". So you point out the terrible opinions devs often have about video games, coming from their mouths, their twitters, and Nintendildos get pissy again. It's all a fucking cult and if you don't recognize OoT as the holy trinity, you're being an heretic in their eyes.

 

[Azdul]

Americans need to be banned from any gaming community. America is the land of consolefaggotry. Even Japan, where PC gamers are rare, is less consolefaggy than the American mainstream.

Meanwhile based Europeans are PC gamers to the core. Only peasants own consoles here.

It has a lot to do with treatment of Europe by console manufacturers.

Nintendo used to sue importers of overseas handheld titles. Europeans should wait patiently for 6 months or more while Nintendo is preparing European version.

Of course every title was more expensive than in US. Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, Parasite Eve, Xenogears, Okage, Katamari Damacy, Echo Night - were not released at all.

Even now - Europeans get treated with 50 Hz versions of classic titles. Or 25 Hz ones .

At some point people will say - You know what Nintendo - fuck you too. And join glorious master race:

 

[JarlFrank]

It has a lot to do with treatment of Europe by console manufacturers.

Good for us.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

In fact for me either of the first Star Control games simply have to be in the top 10. That's a personal preference, but even objectively speaking I don't think there is a better example of competitive gaming balance. Even though I love the Street Fighter 2 series, I really don't get how that can feature at number 27 and what is essentially Street Fighter in space....but with an additional layer of strategy, tactics and roleplaying...can be ignored in the whole 100.

Putting lots of hours personally into a game doesn't make it top 10 for everyone. Top 100 should be something more universal than our own niche autism sadly. I've put infinite hours into Japanese mecha tactics games and I wouldn't list them as top 100. I enjoy them for specific reasons and most people won't.

The lists are also AI generated essentially. They're top 10 SEO articles shuffling a few games around.

PC gamers during the console war were like the Swiss during WW2, just sitting on a pile of treasure

Console war is historic revisionism based on watching TV commercials of the era. Kids did not give a fuck if you liked Sega or Nintendo more, they cared you had games they wanted to play and wanted to come round your house to play them. Almost every kid had a gameboy even if they didn't have a Nintendo console. PCs for gaming were pretty rare and school PCs often got used to play games on when allowed. So there wasn't even PC VS Arcade VS Console VS Microcomputer shit going on. It was just loads of games to play and playing them any way you could.

Oh BTW, while we are talking about Nintendo sacred cows, let me just say something about "Ocarina of Time", and it's worshippers.

OoT generates some weird revisionism in general, which is funny. Nintendildos often point out that OoT invented lock-on systems (what they call z-targetting to make it sound fancier), but when you tell them the mechanic existed in previous games, they get angry and tell you "well, they don't count because they weren't as POLISHED as OoT", absolute goalpost moving with a good dose of subjectivity. Also, they love to name devs citing OoT as their biggest inspiration, like the GTA3 devs. When you ask them how in the hell does GTA 3 play like OoT at all, they start going "uuuuhhh... do you KNOW more about VIDEO GAMES than actual DEVELOPERS??????? checkmate". So you point out the terrible opinions devs often have about video games, coming from their mouths, their twitters, and Nintendildos get pissy again. It's all a fucking cult and if you don't recognize OoT as the holy trinity, you're being an heretic in their eyes.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197771-the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time/50172593
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Fina...elda:_Ocarina_of_Time_vs_Final_Fantasy_X_2009
https://www.neo-geo.com/forums/inde...best-game-ever-ffvii-vs-chrono-trigger.84122/
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/(1)Final_Fantasy_VII_vs_(2)The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time_2004
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/top10/548-the-top-10-greatest-games-of-all-time
We've been at this for 20 goddamn years now. First it was FF7 vs OoT. Then Chrono trigger started to creep in and then Earthbound got popular on youtube.

Can't we all agree you're a bunch of faggots and should have many favourite games in many genres instead of getting into a slap fight over your faggot elf and faggot lady boy sims?

 

[JarlFrank]

PCs for gaming were pretty rare and school PCs often got used to play games on when allowed.

Exact opposite over here, PCs for gaming were extremely common, consoles were rare until XBox came out, all the kids shared pirated PC games with each other. Almost everyone had a PC at home, and if it's just dad's work PC they could occasionally play games on.

Back in my school days barely anyone had a console but almost everyone had a PC and the guy who had a CD burner and CloneCD was king.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Almost everyone had a PC at home, and if it's just dad's work PC they could occasionally play games on.

Installing Doom on Dad's work PC is quite different to having a PC to game on or a console. That falls into school PC territory.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Americans need to be banned from any gaming community. America is the land of consolefaggotry. Even Japan, where PC gamers are rare, is less consolefaggy than the American mainstream.

Meanwhile based Europeans are PC gamers to the core. Only peasants own consoles here.

I don't agree completely. As I said in a previous post, I never saw this big distinction growing up. From my experience, PC gamers were rather open minded. Many in 80s owned the ZX Spectrum(our equivalent of the Commodore 64), which was both a computer and a "console". The Master System and later, specially, the Mega Drive were hugely successful with everyone. After all, who wouldn't want to play arcade style games with their friends on the sofa? I had a Mega Drive before a PC, because they were very expensive, but by the mid 90s most middle class kids had both a PC and a console. Since football/soccer games are almost universally enjoyed here, nearly every PC gamer I knew in the 90s and beyond could at least play PES or FIFA with a controller.

It really is an American problem, though. Even in serious retrospectives on Youtube, crucial games are always omitted due to American idiosyncrasies. I was just watching a Digital Foundry's retrospective on Gran Turismo, which was the game that really won people over, perhaps more than Tomb Raider(which you could play on PC), and the takes an extended detour to talk about racing simulation titles of that era. He mentions Papyrus' NASCAR and Indianapolis 500 games, which were of course important, but there's no word about the hugely significant Grand Prix games by Geoff Crammond or even Colin McRae Rally which came out in 98 for the PS1. The reason being that both F1 and rally racing aren't really popular in the US. No mention of Stunts, either. People come away thinking that, for example, Gran Turismo invented the replay mode which you see in 1990's Stunts and had reached perfection in 1995's Grand Prix 2. Something like this goes on for every genre.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Colin McRae Rally which came out in 98 for the PS1

That game was every where. It was popular on demo discs and likely sold a few machines. Was Micromachines not big in the US? It was one of the most popular mega drive games back then.