HITMAN 2 - the new NON-episodic Hitman game

[unfairlight]

Something that I haven't seen anyone talk about yet is what an amazing job IOI did with the sound in Hitman 2. All the new gun sounds are great, the brass casings are an actual in game object with physics that bounce around and collide with other objects, you can actually hear brass casing from your sniper dropping and hitting metal, the guns all reverb and echo differently depending on where you are, it's all really awesome. I think the sound in Hitman 2 might be the best I have heard in any game in a very long time.

 

[unfairlight]

One issue I had with Hitman 2016 and was hoping to see addressed was the pointless items with cosmetic differences. Emetic syringe vs the Antique Emetic Syringe, lockpick vs 'classic lockpick'. What's the point? Also, I really regret having such a variety of possible suits with no special features of any one suit.

It's not technically really a "suit" but the knight plate armor disguise in Isle of Sgail has special features, you can tank a ton more damage with it, you can't climb with it and you can't crouch in it. I'd also like to see some sort of special features for other items though.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Something that I haven't seen anyone talk about yet is what an amazing job IOI did with the sound in Hitman 2. All the new gun sounds are great, the brass casings are an actual in game object with physics that bounce around and collide with other objects, you can actually hear brass casing from your sniper dropping and hitting metal, the guns all reverb and echo differently depending on where you are, it's all really awesome. I think the sound in Hitman 2 might be the best I have heard in any game in a very long time.

I don't do that much shooting in order to notice this.

 

[unfairlight]

Combat AI is also improved a ton. They throw a lot of flash grenades and 47 goes down really fast now. I think they also have some flanking patterns now, where they won't just mindlessly keep walking into doorways and will try to surround you and attack from all possible angles.

 

[Sentinel]

Hitman 2 was the other big adult release of the week and it, too, had a weaker-than-usual opening. IO Interactive's stealth game debuts at No.10. The last Hitman title was an episodic digital release, so comparisons are impossible to make. Compared with 2012's Hitman Absolution, launch physical sales of Hitman 2 are down 90 per cent.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...top-hyper-competitive-week-at-uk-games-retail

I smell some downscoping of projects/studio on the horizon. They dug their own grave however. Physical sales are still pretty big on consoles.

Meanwhile on PC...

HITMAN

HITMAN 2

 

[unfairlight]

I smell some downscoping of projects/studio on the horizon.

That already happened when they split from Square Enix.

They dug their own grave however

How? WB Games more than likely either:
A. Had no clue about the games industry and went for the holiday season launch date, totally ignoring the fact that the biggest game release of the year was two weeks before theirs.
or
B. Intentionally launched it shortly after RDR2 because they knew the game would flop as a result, then be super "nice" to them and buy them out for two pennies at some later date.

 

[Sentinel]

How?

1) Denuvo
2) Always Online
3) Elusive Targets
4) 5 maps for 60€

 

[fantadomat]

I smell some downscoping of projects/studio on the horizon.

That already happened when they split from Square Enix.

They dug their own grave however

How? WB Games more than likely either:
A. Had no clue about the games industry and went for the holiday season launch date, totally ignoring the fact that the biggest game release of the year was two weeks before theirs.
or
B. Intentionally launched it shortly after RDR2 because they knew the game would flop as a result, then be super "nice" to them and buy them out for two pennies at some later date.

By having two shitty games before that of which one was episodic shit. I won't even pirate that game! Fuck that shit i replay Blood Money every time they splash another abomination with the name of Hitman.

 

[unfairlight]

1) Denuvo

Probably paid for by the publisher. I think every WB-published game has had Denuvo so far.

2) Always Online

Fair enough, but not something that I believe would actually make or break any sales.

3) Elusive Targets

See above. I can see issues with online unlocks and elusive targets, but I don't see it as something that would make or break a game sale for me.

4) 5 maps for 60€

That's a weak argument, because I rather view it as how many hours of content total you can get out of those maps. As I said previously, 5 maps that are really good and have a lot of replay value is worth more to me than 20 shitty maps that have little to none.

By having two shitty games before that of which one was episodic shit.

I've found that the majority of people that think that Hitman 2016 is bad haven't even played it. You sound like one of them.

 

[Agame]

By having two shitty games before that of which one was episodic shit.

I've found that the majority of people that think that Hitman 2016 is bad haven't even played it. You sound like one of them.

Yes, there seem to be a lot of 'Edgy Mc Edgelords' in this thread who have never played the game and keep shitting on it. Trying to harvest those Kodex Kool Kid points I guess?

Well you morans are missing out on a fun game, so your loss.

The amount of maps does seem very small, but once you actually play the game you will realize there is way more meaningful hours of gameplay than your average AAA openworld game.

 

[Tancred]

No one cares about comparing it to some 'average AAA openworld game'. We care about it being a Hitman game, the way they used to be.

That means a game with challenging single-player sandbox with good mission variety that we can replay whenever we want, including ten years down the track without having to worry about always-online requirements or if the servers are going to be shut down so we lose game functionality. A game we can play at our own leisure and pace, with the freedom to play it online or offline as we choose.

Regarding Denuvo, well IO-I are independent now. They're the ones who chose to go to a publisher who uses Denuvo. They could have put their paying customers first but as they didn't, clearly they are okay with Denuvo.

Elusive Targets are another problem and one I particularly detest. If you wait to buy or play the game for whatever reason (waiting for bugfixes, waiting for money, waiting for a sale, waiting to have time to play it or waiting to upgrade your PC) then you're punished by missing out. And if you do buy and play early then you have to be subservient to their schedule of when they will graciously let you access the content you paid for like a complete cuck. Compelling.

'durrr like just ignore it, like you're not forced to play them hurrr'

Then I ask, why support a game whose creators are spending so much effort on making content you can't access or have no interest in? Considering that it also detracts from the content you ARE interested in? All that time & resources spent on useless shit (don't forget multiplayer with a gimmick twist) could go into more missions.

Or better yet, why not a mission editor/toolkit so modders can create their own missions and levels similar to what the Thief community has been doing for years. Talk about a slam-dunk way to get huge amounts of community goodwill and people talking about your game years and years after it was released, which would make sales of future games even better.

Fact is, Hitman could and should be doing a lot better than it is. It's not, and as IO-I have continued with all the retarded ideas that are driving it into the ground, that proves it's largely on them. Not on Warner Bros, edgelords, morans, KKK harvesters or even the ghost of Squeenix past.

FFS.

 

[Alienman]

Combat AI is also improved a ton. They throw a lot of flash grenades and 47 goes down really fast now. I think they also have some flanking patterns now, where they won't just mindlessly keep walking into doorways and will try to surround you and attack from all possible angles.

It's funny now this being a Hitman game, but I actually look forward to the mess up because of the scramble to panic firefights.

 

[bertram_tung]

the game is fine and the fags crying about every last thing not being perfect wouldn't even play it to that extent in the first place

 

[unfairlight]

That means a game with challenging single-player sandbox with good mission variety

That's what you have.

Regarding Denuvo, well IO-I are independent now. They're the ones who chose to go to a publisher who uses Denuvo. They could have put their paying customers first but as they didn't, clearly they are okay with Denuvo.

I doubt that many publishers would give a studio who had a game that was a commercial flop and split from their former owner much of a chance. I doubt there were many lining up to offer a publishing deal and they just took what they got. Think about it, who else really is there that can support a >100 person studio other than big publishers who will force Denuvo anyway?

(don't forget multiplayer with a gimmick twist) could go into more missions.

Except that's not how game development works. They had their programmers do some work to get their game engine to work with multiplayer well, they had like 3 new art assets created for the cyborg 47 model and the target and they had some design resources put into scripting the target and placing the equipment crates around the map. The rest is just reused content from the singleplayer portion. Does that sound like a lot of work? To me it doesn't.

I read a good (negative) review on Steam.

This is clearly Warner Brothers' work; the moment Io went self-publishing with the last Hitman they ripped out everything of this calibre immediately, including Denuvo and the mandatory privacy policy. I've no doubt there's some shouting matches going on in the offices between devs and publishers right now, and it's anybody's game who comes out on top, so... Your call. Support Io Interactive, or starve Warner Brothers?

 

[fantadomat]

I've found that the majority of people that think that Hitman 2016 is bad haven't even played it. You sound like one of them.

Yeah,i didn't play the last two games. I stopped at the first two-three missions of absolution. As i said before,i play the old games so i could be an hired contract killer for random people,not to save kids,damsels or the fucking world from an evul corporation/organization. If you like that shit,well more power for you mate. I saw that those games are story only focused and just skipped them,also only 6 mission....yeah dream on. And obviously i am not in the minority if the game makes only 10% of absolution's sales. I don't care how improved the AI,stealth mechanics are,or that you could disguise as pink dragon. The best part of the old games that you get a job and the freedom to do it your way. Now is just 6 level CoD story with stealth. Not interested. If it was 15-20 smaller levels with different contracts i would have been hyped,but it is not.

 

[agentorange]

You're an absolute fucking moron. Stop posting.

 

[unfairlight]

As i said before,i play the old games so i could be an hired contract killer for random people,not to save kids,damsels or the fucking world from an evul corporation/organization.

And you kill random people in 2016, dumbfuck. Are you under the false assumption that Hitman 2016 is exactly like Hitman Absolution?

. I saw that those games are story only focused

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you retarded? Hitman 2016 has practically no story focus at all and if you REALLY hate story then you can just press space bar whenever a cutscene shows up. You won't see or hear any of it.

also only 6 mission

Except one mission from 2016/2 is three times as good as practically anything from the previous games. Mission quality has never been better, I've been replaying just one mission for 15 hours straight in 2016, I couldn't imagine doing that in any other Hitman game. Just getting Mastery 20 on each level will set you up for 50-100 hours of content in 2016.

If it was 15-20 smaller levels with different contracts

Guess Hitman Blood Money is a shit game too then, that game only had 11 missions, not including tutorial.
Oh wait, it isn't, Hitman Blood Money is better than anything before it, despite having less missions than Silent Assassin and Contracts. The reason for it is that Blood Money just didn't have shit, boring filler levels and instead focused on putting more quality in each one just as 2016 did.

 

[Wunderbar]

Yeah,i didn't play the last two games. I stopped at the first two-three missions of absolution. As i said before,i play the old games so i could be an hired contract killer for random people,not to save kids,damsels or the fucking world from an evul corporation/organization.

dude, play Hitman 2016. It's not like Absolution at all, it's closer to Blood Money.

 

[fantadomat]

As i said before,i play the old games so i could be an hired contract killer for random people,not to save kids,damsels or the fucking world from an evul corporation/organization.

And you kill random people in 2016, dumbfuck. Are you under the false assumption that Hitman 2016 is exactly like Hitman Absolution?

. I saw that those games are story only focused

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you retarded? Hitman 2016 has practically no story focus at all and if you REALLY hate story then you can just press space bar whenever a cutscene shows up. You won't see or hear any of it.

also only 6 mission

Except one mission from 2016/2 is three times as good as practically anything from the previous games. Mission quality has never been better, I've been replaying just one mission for 15 hours straight in 2016, I couldn't imagine doing that in any other Hitman game. Just getting Mastery 20 on each level will set you up for 50-100 hours of content in 2016.

If it was 15-20 smaller levels with different contracts

Guess Hitman Blood Money is a shit game too then, that game only had 11 missions, not including tutorial.
Oh wait, it isn't, Hitman Blood Money is better than anything before it, despite having less missions than Silent Assassin and Contracts. The reason for it is that Blood Money just didn't have shit, boring filler levels and instead focused on putting more quality in each one just as 2016 did.

Yeah,enjoy your game oh great butthurt man.

 

[Dzupakazul]

As i said before,i play the old games so i could be an hired contract killer for random people,not to save kids,damsels or the fucking world from an evul corporation/organization

Interestingly enough, the plot of Hitman 2 was about saving your only friend in the whole world at the time, a priest who got caught up in your old shit you were trying to forget. Granted, the vibe is completely different from Absolution (the Agency actually helps you and you're not a lone wolf fugitive with a private investigator streak, but they feed you info on the priest in exchange for working for them again), but it was technically there.

Oh wait, it isn't, Hitman Blood Money is better than anything before it, despite having less missions than Silent Assassin and Contracts. The reason for it is that Blood Money just didn't have shit, boring filler levels and instead focused on putting more quality in each one just as 2016 did.

Well, there's Death of a Showman. I'd argue some of the levels don't really hold up very well if you're looking for multiple playthroughs (A House of Cards, in my opinion, has the "wow" factor when it starts and then gets bogged down in target scheduling. The one thing I really dislike in Hitman is when a target is scheduled to go somewhere or do something scripted, and he walks at a snail's pace to his destination. Really obnoxious and doesn't make me feel the tension of being a patient assassin, and it happens quite a lot in the original four games.)

fantadomat, man, you kinda have an unhealthy tendency to walk into threads to complain about games you don't like. A good tactic for harvesting brofists in Oblivion threads and somewhat silly everywhere else. Give this game a chance; it is nothing like what you're describing. There are some points about it that are somewhat contentious in the Hitman fanbase, but, in general, we like it. I know bitter cynicism is a staple here, but the post-Absolution games will be worth your while. You no longer have to worry about any episodic content.

EDIT:

I've been replaying just one mission for 15 hours straight in 2016, I couldn't imagine doing that in any other Hitman game.

I'm just glad all of my Hitman games are retail or GoG, because my Steam hour count would be considered embarassing. I tend to fixate for a long time on one game instead of completing multiple playthroughs (a trend I'm trying to get rid of) and I kinda did a loooot of Hitman stuff. I'm gonna just post this cause it's hilarious (this is not my channel, full disclosure).

 

[unfairlight]

Yeah,enjoy your game oh great butthurt man.

"u mad bro" is usually the final post of a person that lost an argument.

Well, there's Death of a Showman. I'd argue some of the levels don't really hold up very well if you're looking for multiple playthroughs (A House of Cards, in my opinion, has the "wow" factor when it starts and then gets bogged down in target scheduling. The one thing I really dislike in Hitman is when a target is scheduled to go somewhere or do something scripted, and he walks at a snail's pace to his destination. Really obnoxious and doesn't make me feel the tension of being a patient assassin, and it happens quite a lot in the original four games.)

Oh, make no mistake. I definitely think there is a lot of bad level design present in Hitman Blood Money. Off the top of my head, everything I didn't like with every mission in Blood Money:

Death of a Showman - I hate this mission. I think I'd go as far to say that this is probably the second worst mission in the entire series, only beaten by Hidden Valley.
A Vintage Year - Both targets have really boring patterns and basically every disguise other than maybe elite guard, normal guard and worker are pointless. Getting a disguise is also really easy.
Curtains Down - Ruined entirely by Delahunt. While the singer is a great target with many possibilities of killing, I despise Delahunt because there is only one really practical way of killing him, which is dropping the chandelier on his head by planting a AP mine at the top.
Flatline - When you go to inject Agent Smith with the serum there is a 1 minute and 10 second long unskippable cutscene. Picture in Picture also sucks, because it just flat out shows you all the ways of killing the targets.
A New Life - The guy who runs circles around the suburb is annoying and I don't like that there are practically only two ways of killing Vinnie: breaking the electrical box to make his bodyguard go away, killing him and then dragging him in the closet, but hiding him in the closet was also often annoying because of how ragdolls block doors. The other is to push his bodyguard off the railing/KO and hide him and then kill Vinnie when he is using his PC, both are very boring and anticlimactic. Still great because it's small enough to showcase how funny the AI in Blood Money is though, like being able to detonate a mine, run inside, get everyone (including Vinnie) to chase you and then when the FBI reinforcements arrive having their limo run over Vinnie. Another notable example is just running in, getting Vinnie to chase you and getting them to the pool room, then throwing a coin at the glass ceiling and having it fall down and kill everyone in a very unfortunate accident.
Murder of the Crows - Shit mission, I hate it. The mission has crowds, but it has no practical purpose other than just hiding the real NPCs who can detect you and become a witness, which makes using those alleyways to get disguises/kill targets also annoying, because you are just hoping that some random NPC doesn't just roll around and decide to fuck up your day. Having RNG (second target's location) is bullshit too.
You Better Watch Out - Good, but I hate the dog that follows around Lorne de Havilland. That dog can become a witness and ruin your Silent Assassin rating as a result.
Death on the Mississippi - Not good. It's really linear and there's essentially only one or two ways you can complete it. Very restrictive.
Till Death Do Us Part - Good, but AI can be pretty bullshit on this level if you go for a sniper playthrough. If you decide to snipe the guy that is getting married from the attic or the greenhouse then you will end up with >50 witnesses from the crowd, even if the kill was in total silence and they are so far away.
A House of Cards - What the guy above said. I really hate that there is so many timers involved, I dislike elevators because they are slow and I don't like navigating the map at all. There's just so much empty space. First playthrough is fine, second is worse, third is hell.
A Dance with the Devil - Overrated as fuck. Fucking boss battles in Hitman? Ridiculous. There is also only one practical way of killing Hell Lady, whatever her name was and only really one way of killing Eve. The CIA agent guy in gold is a good target though, there's a few ways to kill him and all of them are fun enough.
Amendment XXV - Getting close to Mark is a tedious and annoying process and the payoff is worse, with the bomb explosion and chase sequence and another boss battle. Very bad end to a otherwise good game.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Curtains Down - Ruined entirely by Delahunt. While the singer is a great target with many possibilities of killing, I despise Delahunt because there is only one really practical way of killing him, which is dropping the chandelier on his head by planting a AP mine at the top.

Of course we're assuming we're doing everything with Silent Assassin (though sometimes I like to just do stuff C47-style and just run around the levels trying to tinker around with shit without a specific rating in mind), but one thing I found some success with is to snipe him with a fully upgraded pistol from the starting position on the map after killing Alvaro, and mashing EXIT. Ballistic bullets will drop him and you might be able to escape before his body is found. It's tricky, indeed. Delahunt does suck as a target for this reason.

Flatline - When you go to inject Agent Smith with the serum there is a 1 minute and 10 second long unskippable cutscene. Picture in Picture also sucks, because it just flat out shows you all the ways of killing the targets.

Oh yes, my thoughts exactly. Flatline is a bitch to replay.

A New Life - The guy who runs circles around the suburb is annoying and I don't like that there are practically only two ways of killing Vinnie: breaking the electrical box to make his bodyguard go away, killing him and then dragging him in the closet, but hiding him in the closet was also often annoying because of how ragdolls block doors. The other is to push his bodyguard off the railing/KO and hide him and then kill Vinnie when he is using his PC, both are very boring and anticlimactic. Still great because it's small enough to showcase how funny the AI in Blood Money is though, like being able to detonate a mine, run inside, get everyone (including Vinnie) to chase you and then when the FBI reinforcements arrive having their limo run over Vinnie. Another notable example is just running in, getting Vinnie to chase you and getting them to the pool room, then throwing a coin at the glass ceiling and having it fall down and kill everyone in a very unfortunate accident.

Ah yeah, the various assorted speedrunner/challenge tactics. I employed (and invented some of them, but not really for Blood Money) them regularly, but indeed, a lot of the extra ideas for kills are stuff that relies on some heavy trickery with the game engine. That said, in A New Life, one neat and fairly legit thing you can do is cause a panic with an explosion or gunshots, which causes Vinnie to duck into his closet as a panic room. You can shoot him from outside the door with armor piercing bullets or otherwise just ambush him.

Murder of the Crows - Shit mission, I hate it. The mission has crowds, but it has no practical purpose other than just hiding the real NPCs who can detect you and become a witness, which makes using those alleyways to get disguises/kill targets also annoying, because you are just hoping that some random NPC doesn't just roll around and decide to fuck up your day. Having RNG (second target's location) is bullshit too.

I like it a wee bit more than that, but stunning people in the alleyways to get their clothes is supertense, and that mission doesn't really offer that much replayability. I liked the various random interactions, such as the woman-target recognizing you if you're in a Kuklinsky suit and going batshit on you.

You Better Watch Out - Good, but I hate the dog that follows around Lorne de Havilland. That dog can become a witness and ruin your Silent Assassin rating as a result.

Oh yeah, that mechanic sucks ass. Funnily enough, the wheelchair in Requiem is a witness too, and the only way you can kill it at all is by an accident. Ofc, Requiem has no rating.

Death on the Mississippi - Not good. It's really linear and there's essentially only one or two ways you can complete it. Very restrictive.

The multitude of targets in that level could work better if it weren't for the fact that 3-4 of them default towards congregating in the captain's room at the top.

Till Death Do Us Part

This level really highlights my issue with how the game intends you to wait for a long-ass scripted sequence before it lets you do anything. There are some tricky ways to attempt entry from the side entrances, like shooting the locks or similar tactics (lowkey shilling here). The gimmick with spotting a guy who is walking away from everyone else and passing out in a corner so that you can take his outfit and pass? Cool idea, but why does he have to take such a long time walking there? It wouldn't be such a problem if there was a lot to investigate in the little portion of the map you're tossed into, but there really isn't. Also, although the game makes it a point that in Redneckville people with guns out will not stand out at all, firing at the crocs or similar shenanigans will still get you witnesses.

A Dance with the Devil - (...) There is also only one practical way of killing Hell Lady

You can walk up to her as CIA Agent and she'll lead you to her room. Just dispose of her the moment you're both alone. Rigging the lights also works. So that's two ways.

Amendment XXV - Getting close to Mark is a tedious and annoying process and the payoff is worse, with the bomb explosion and chase sequence and another boss battle. Very bad end to a otherwise good game.

The bottom line is, Blood Money is a game that's amazing in the first playthrough, still good in the 2nd, and then you are either bored of all the holes you start noticing in the design or have fun puncturing them by yourself. I think that's why BM to this day has this much content of people just fucking around with it. Putting a mine in such a specific place outside of the Oval Office that Mark dies to the explosion or skipping the entire chase scene is funny by quickly shooting him in first person mode right before the bomb explodes is funny. Or shit like this. Or this golden video series.

I also feel like IO used not to necessarily accomodate every single interactable object as a possible Silent Assassin venue - some levels feel like puzzles and setpieces you were probably meant to complete once or twice with the max rating, once you've figured out the fine details, and some of them probably got so open-ended by accident through years of community tinkering. (There's a level in Contracts, for instance, when you can throw an improvised bomb into the chimney and it even changes the level design a little bit, because the doors to the room are blown open and you make a mess of the whole thing, but you're also gonna ruin your Silent Assassin because the explosion kills a lot of people around the target.) And not gunning for SA rating really opens stuff up - if you want a playstyle where you snipe a target in broad daylight and everyone panicks, it's great. If you want to make a bloody mess, Hitman is great for that as well. Hitman is at its best when you're still figuring it out, whether as a newbie or a veteran playing with tools, and many of these levels are really good for figuring out the learning process and only after a lot of time do you realize they're not absolutely perfect. The new Hitman also brings out that feeling.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I just ignore the screeching of retards who haven't even played Hitman 2016. It's one thing to admit you are butthurt about features like Elusive targets or about the game being always online. It's another to claim that Hitman 2016 doesn't give you freedom in how to accomplish missions. Laughable.

Just in the Paris mission there are 22 different possible ways to kill the targets, listed in the "Challenges" section. Those are just the listed ones.

You can "roleplay", you can powerplay, there is still AI behavior that can be abused, there are time windows in which you have to fit your actions in order to get some special outcome, etc. Hitman 2016 is much more complex than any previous Hitman game.

What I miss is the atmosphere of Hitman 2: Silent Assassin which came with that game's locations (Russia, Japan, Kuala Lumpur), but the missions themselves are a huge improvement over anything released before.

 

[HoboForEternity]

it's just the butthurt brigade that endlessly whine. they live on whining, without whining they wilt like grapes become raisins.

 

[unfairlight]

You can walk up to her as CIA Agent and she'll lead you to her room. Just dispose of her the moment you're both alone. Rigging the lights also works. So that's two ways.

Oh right, I forgot those. When she leads you to her room, doesn't she still have guards behind a window left of the door though?

for instance, when you can throw an improvised bomb into the chimney and it even changes the level design a little bit

What mission was that? I can't remember anymore.