Incline Hollow Knight

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Its an amazing game, but i think its too easy to compare with DS. But yeah, atmosphere, and ambience is amazing.

I agree the Dark Souls comparison is... inelegant (I think it's far closer to some of the Castlevanias); but especially in the first few hours it's hard to shake it. It introduces a gameplay element (currency loss on death) that is nearly synonymous with DS. Once you realize that

Spoiler

Geo is actually pretty much worthless/ubiquitous

the comparison starts to fail. HK also has a much larger focus on narrative despite using the same (background) approach to narrative.

I finished DS over a dozen times and found Hollow Knight a lot harder. Very frantic and a bit fiddly.

Maybe I just can't into 2D Soulslikes, I thought Salt & Sanctuary was harder than all 'Souls' titles too.

That's interesting. I had the exact opposite experience. Maybe it's a function of my age and that I grew up and learned to play games in the pre-3d era, but I find Dark Souls much more difficult, to the point that I haven't even played the sequels despite owning them and loving the 1st game because I just still feel exhausted by and inexpert at DS even after completing it 4 times. HK, by contrast, I've spent roughly the same amount of time on (probably a little more), and I'm quite a bit better at. I can beat most of the bosses without dying

Spoiler

(Traitor Lord, Crystal Guardian mk2, and, of course, Radiance always give me a little trouble because I spazz out)

, have little trouble with the delicate flower, and can reliably complete the White Palace. I haven't done the Godhome content (or even attempted it) because difficulty for difficulty's sake doesn't really appeal to me, but other than that I feel like I've pretty much mastered the game.

But I still can't reliably take out Ornstein and Smough without summons. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[polo]

Its an amazing game, but i think its too easy to compare with DS. But yeah, atmosphere, and ambience is amazing.

I finished DS over a dozen times and found Hollow Knight a lot harder. Very frantic and a bit fiddly.

Maybe I just can't into 2D Soulslikes, I thought Salt & Sanctuary was harder than all 'Souls' titles too.

You probably forgor your first experiences with DS after playing it so much, i know it happened to me to some extent. But in my first HK playthrough i think after i got some abilities i just stopped dying, it became silly easy, only exception would be some really hard boss, or maybe the depths.
Idk, maybe its me, or you, but for ME DS is way harder and challenging than HK, i love both games tho.

 

[Elwro]

This game just speaks to me. It's so elegant and crisp. I grew up playing 2d platformers and some of my friends had Castlevanias on their handhelds; the nostalgia kicks in, I guess.

In 3d games like DS I have basic perception problems. I hadn't noticed the stairs to the Firekeeper in Firelink Shrine before ringing BOTH bells...

 

[Teut Busnet]

Its an amazing game, but i think its too easy to compare with DS. But yeah, atmosphere, and ambience is amazing.

I finished DS over a dozen times and found Hollow Knight a lot harder. Very frantic and a bit fiddly.

Maybe I just can't into 2D Soulslikes, I thought Salt & Sanctuary was harder than all 'Souls' titles too.

You probably forgor your first experiences with DS after playing it so much, i know it happened to me to some extent. But in my first HK playthrough i think after i got some abilities i just stopped dying, it became silly easy, only exception would be some really hard boss, or maybe the depths.
Idk, maybe its me, or you, but for ME DS is way harder and challenging than HK, i love both games tho.

I started with Demon's Souls, but yeah, possibly (though IIRC, I had the most trouble with Demon's Souls because I didn't get the hang of the upgrade system).

 

[Ivan]

 

[Elwro]

Having played more, I withdraw the suggestion that the game was "obviously inspired" by Dark Souls. I think I'm now starting to get where you guys were coming from.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

The game is gud, but I kinda stuck after 8 hours. Nowhere to go (can't cross shadow barriers). Hanging around in Fungal Wastes, probably need to enter the Deepnest somehow.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

The game is gud, but I kinda stuck after 8 hours. Nowhere to go (can't cross shadow barriers). Hanging around in Fungal Wastes, probably need to enter the Deepnest somehow.

Spoiler

Yes you need to get into Deepnest and find the tram pass. If you've defeated the Mantis Lords you already have access to Deepnest. Alternatively there are other entrances to it as well.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Spoiler

I guess I've missed Mantis Lords somehow though I'm sure I've studied this location well

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Spoiler

I guess I've missed Mantis Lords somehow though I'm sure I've studied this location well

If you want to know their location:

Spoiler

They're at the very bottom of the mantis village, directly below where you find the mantis claw.

 

[polo]

Mantis lords was really fun

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Mantis lords was really fun

It's a great fight, and a really good test of whether or not you've mastered the tools the game has given you thus far.

 

[polo]

Mantis lords was really fun

It's a great fight, and a really good test of whether or not you've mastered the tools the game has given you thus far.

I found them really early with almost no updates, and i think it was the most challenging boss in the game for me. Its so ell designed that even when i died many times i never felt angry or frustrated.

 

[Elwro]

Alright. I died 50+ times to Hornet and I'm feeling perhaps the game's not for me after all. Maybe I'm too old for this fast-paced shit. Can't figure out how to avoid her attacks, usually after one hit she immediately hits me again. And if I try to stay far she corners me; there's no running away from her once I'm at the edge of the arena.

I even watched a YouTube video of some guy beating her (I've done something like this for the first time in my life) and I still have no idea how (s)he did it. Positioning seems to be the key but as for how exactly to maneuver -- I'm drawing a blank.

I like the idea that she changes the cries accompanying her attacks. You might think you should learn the patterns so that you'd know how her attacks would be telegraphed by her shouts, but no, they change from fight to fight. Interesting.

Is there someplace else to go from Greenpath with just the starting equipment? All other routes I've seen seem to be blocked by thorns etc.

 

[Elwro]

This is just magic to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks173TPQhKQ

I see the guy is controlling the knight mid-air with nice precision. Do you think he's using a controller? I sometimes feel the keyboard might not be the best choice for this game...

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Alright. I died 50+ times to Hornet and I'm feeling perhaps the game's not for me after all. Maybe I'm too old for this fast-paced shit. Can't figure out how to avoid her attacks, usually after one hit she immediately hits me again. And if I try to stay far she corners me; there's no running away from her once I'm at the edge of the arena.

I even watched a YouTube video of some guy beating her (I've done something like this for the first time in my life) and I still have no idea how (s)he did it. Positioning seems to be the key but as for how exactly to maneuver -- I'm drawing a blank.

I like the idea that she changes the cries accompanying her attacks. You might think you should learn the patterns so that you'd know how her attacks would be telegraphed by her shouts, but no, they change from fight to fight. Interesting.

Is there someplace else to go from Greenpath with just the starting equipment? All other routes I've seen seem to be blocked by thorns etc.

You mean that first fight? Took me about 8 tries, just get used to her rhythm.

 

[Elwro]

Yeah, 'git gud', I know, I've beaten all the Souls games many times so I know the drill. Still, here the fast pace is making this suprisingly difficult.

And there's a rhythm? I haven't noticed. I just think now that it was a mistake to try and stay far from her, because this way I'm getting cornered easily and she just kills me with the dash. I'll try to stay near the middle.

And ffs I just can't do vertical attacks, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

And ffs I just can't do vertical attacks, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

Vertical attacks?

 

[Darth Roxor]

I even watched a YouTube video of some guy beating her and I still have no idea how (s)he did it.

also this only proves my earlier suspicions that everyone who finds this game soopa hard is just a paralytic and/or a scrublord

And ffs I just can't do vertical attacks, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

if you mean the jump attacks pointing down, you just jump... and press down... and press attack

this is by far the most important move in the game btw (and at times it's even necessary to progress through some jumping sections iirc), so you'd better learn to use it if you intend to continue after all

 

[Elwro]

I even watched a YouTube video of some guy beating her and I still have no idea how (s)he did it.

also this only proves my earlier suspicions that everyone who finds this game soopa hard is just a paralytic and/or a scrublord

My American friends call their daughters 'guys'. I was surprised when I heard it the first time but they said it was a general, gender-neutral term.

 

[NJClaw]

Many people, myself included, find the game a lot easier on a controller. Doesn't the game actually recommend using a controller during the first loading screen?

I don't remember finding the Hornet fight particularly difficult in my first playthrough. Most of her attacks can be avoided simply by jumping and then moving mid-air at the right moment (when she or her projectile gets near you during the attack animation). That guy in the video takes a lot of unnecessary hits and looks pretty bad at the game, but he still manages to avoid 90% of her attacks jumping and moving mid-air.

To do the vertical attack, you can press ↓ as soon as you jump, and then press the attack button whenever you want during the jump (as long as you keep pressing ↓).

 

[Elwro]

Thanks for the tips GUYS. Tbh I haven't died even once after the Baldur minilevel and thought the game was becoming easier. This Hornet fight is my first real stumble block after I failed to realise for a long time that you could hit the rolling little fuckers and not jump over them

 

[NJClaw]

Tbh I haven't died even once after the Baldur minilevel and thought the game was becoming easier. This Hornet fight is my first real stumble block

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Definitely play using a controller. I can't even imagine trying to get through some of the tougher platforming challenges using mouse and keyboard.

Regarding Hornet: the down attack in mid-jump is the answer (as Roxor said it's probably the most important move in the whole game). HK is pretty good about gradually forcing you to learn different combat techniques in order to progress past the bosses. Other than that just play conservatively. If you're really having difficulty you can use her periodic stagger breaks to heal instead of going in for more whacks.

In some ways I think the earlier bosses (False Knight, Hornet mk.1, Mantis Lords, Soul Tyrant) can be more difficult than the later ones on a first playthrough, because you (the player) have not yet learned how to use your basic combat toolset effectively. By the later game though you've probably learned to fight a lot more effectively, have a bunch of new mobility options, and have probably upgraded the nail a couple times. I definitely died to all of the above listed bosses a few times my first time through, but I'm pretty sure I could beat all of them now without taking damage.

 

[Momock]

And ffs I just can't do vertical attacks, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

Not using a controller is the first thing that comes to mind! A controller with a good D-pad, like the playstation pad, to avoid misdirections (particulary important to do the downward attack consistently). The Xbox one is pure garbage.