Incline Hollow Knight

[Ash]

Got to the City of Tears, sharpened my nail, visited the statue. Still can't believe how awesome this game is.

Hollow Knight is a very good game but it is often overstated just how good. I was impressed and had a good time, it's one of the best games in recent years and one of the best Metroidvanias of all time, but wasn't inspired enough to completionist the game or start an immediate replay. Oh, spoiler alert:

-The economy falls apart a little over half way through the game. This is doubly important with the game's death mechanic. If money has no purpose, then death loses some relevance and the risk vs reward of attempting to retrieve it too.
-The environment lacks detail (obscured by darkness, and just the intentional minimalism design). This is perfectly fine, but it's valid that it is less detailed than its counterparts (see: Ori). there's beauty to its minimalism, but it's not the same level of beauty as a truly beautiful game like Ori (Ori is otherwise even more overrated than HK though). I also even find Symphony of the Night more appealing to look at despite being released in 1997. Much wider range of color for starters.
-The customization is simple. This is fine, but if simple it better be damn well refined, and it's not. Once you get the regen health royal jelly there's rarely a reason to use any other setup.
-Signposting could be a little better (of course without ruining it). After you are robbed by the banker how are you supposed to know where she has gone? A CLUE would have been nice. The whole beehive level, not in the slightest intuitive to find. Other examples like this.

Perhaps a little more subjectively:

-The soundtrack. Greenpath & Queen's Garden are fucking masterpieces. And Crystal Peak. One or two others maybe. At times I found myself disappointed with the music though, e.g Deep Nest which is meaningless droning and did not create any tense and mysterious atmosphere it likely intended to.
-Fog canyon is lame for a late game area.
-The DLC bosses are a touch extreme in difficulty. I like a couple super bosses, but them all being that level of difficulty is silly. Meanwhile the end boss is piss easy.

Hollow Knight deserves much of the love it is getting but I wish people had the same time to spare for the other recent great indies we've been lucky to have.

 

[Elwro]

OK Ash could you name a few of these indies? I haven't followed the genre since I played some Castlevania on a NES, I think, in the early 90s ;-)

 

[Ash]

Hollow knight-tier quality Singleplayer gameplayfag-worthy experiences from recent memory:

Hades (Rogue-lite)
Salt and Sanctuary (Metroidvania) - it's just as good as Hollow Knight if you ask me. Even if HK has more originality.
Darkwood (Survival Horror)

I still need to do more exploring myself in the indie space. I guess for the metroidvania genre specifically (which doesn't include the original NES Castlevania btw) I can recommend not bothering with the recent Blasphemous and Bloodstained. Not bad, but not quite reaching greatness.

So you haven't played Castlevania: Symphony of the Night? Get on that right now. It's better than Hollow Knight in many ways (and some worse).

 

[Elwro]

OK, thanks. Castlevania: SotN is next on the list, then!

 

[RoSoDude]

OK, thanks. Castlevania: SotN is next on the list, then!

Play the rest of the SotN-style Castlevanias too if you end up loving it (which you should if you're digging Hollow Knight). Suggested order: Symphony of the Night -> Aria of Sorrow -> Dawn of Sorrow -> Portrait of Ruin -> Order of Ecclesia -> Circle of the Moon/Harmony of Dissonance. That's more or less an acending order of difficulty except for the the last two depending on interest; CotM is harder and similar to NES Classicvanias in deliberate movement/combat mechanics and difficulty, while HoD is a bit messy with poor audio design and unsatisfying difficulty curve, but great magic system and fun world to explore.

 

[Elwro]

Thanks! This should keep me going for years, I guess.

 

[PlanHex]

I've also never played SotN.
Is it possible to get it for PC without ps1 emulation?
Don't see it on gog or steam...

 

[lightbane]

How does this compare to Dark Souls again? It is obviously influenced by it, and the fanbase of HK is repulsive.

Hades (Rogue-lite)

A SJW-friendly game, and Epic trash to boot IIRC.
If you don't care about either point, I suppose it could be fun.

 

[Alphard]

How does this compare to Dark Souls again? It is obviously influenced by it, and the fanbase of HK is repulsive.

Hades (Rogue-lite)

A SJW-friendly game, and Epic trash to boot IIRC.
If you don't care about either point, I suppose it could be fun.

I was midly interested in the game. What makes it sjw friendly? Out of curiosity, i could catch the fish in high seas if that's the case

 

[NJClaw]

What makes it sjw friendly?

Imaginary characters having the wrong skin color.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Anyone who enjoys roguelites should play Hades. It’s hands down the best one I’ve ever played. I never even noticed the Gods’ skin color until seeing people complain about it here and it’s ridiculous. Yeah they don’t really look white, but they don’t really look black either.

 

[HansDampf]

They look caucasian with a tan. There are also ... "romance" options, with one of them being gay. None of this affects the gameplay which is great.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

They look caucasian with a tan. There are also ... "romance" options, with one of them being gay. None of this affects the gameplay which is great.

Yeah I don’t think it’s really an SJW agenda to portray ancient Greeks as engaging in homosexual relationships.

 

[lightbane]

But making female goddesses ugly or weird-looking at best is suspicious, considering the other changes. Also, Epic title, which means you shouldn't buy it by default (but pirating is fine).

 

[Ash]

It's not Epic store exclusive, what are you referring to?

About SJW: anything you may have heard is for sure overblown. The writing is pretty good and tasteful.

The game is good, don't miss this opportunity to enjoy a rare worthwhile game in this dark day and age of gaming.

Anyone who enjoys roguelites should play Hades. It’s hands down the best one I’ve ever played. I never even noticed the Gods’ skin color until seeing people complain about it here and it’s ridiculous. Yeah they don’t really look white, but they don’t really look black either.

I would also say anyone who enjoys action games should play it. It also goes a bit beyond the average rogueite, which always feel like prototypes for an actual good game somewhere down the line in my experience (e.g Dead Cells, Ziggurat). Hades is that good, full game.

 

[Ash]

I've also never played SotN.
Is it possible to get it for PC without ps1 emulation?
Don't see it on gog or steam...

I don't think so, but PS1 emulation is the way to go for the Hardtype mod anyway (on replays).

 

[NJClaw]

But making female goddesses ugly or weird-looking at best is suspicious, considering the other changes. Also, Epic title, which means you shouldn't buy it by default (but pirating is fine).

I wouldn't say that female goddesses are ugly. Could you bring any example? The art style is definitely unique, but they don't look ugly to me.

Hades hasn't been an Epic exclusive for more than a year now:

 

[Tigranes]

Hades is excellent, though it's very very different from HK. Story/art isn't great but it's fine, does the job. The real meat is the fast paced roguelite in any case. If every game has to pass your internal censorship board on how many women it has or doesn't have, grow up, nobody cares about your weird ass obsession.

HK - I played it couple years ago and I found it quite difficult, regularly getting into "died 12 times here" loops. I chalked that up to me being shit at action games. Replaying it now, and it's going far more smoothly - I can finally pogo stick reliably, and did Mantis Lords and Soul Master in one go. I suppose in the interim I've played the Oris, Celeste, Bloodstained, and got my platforming baseline up a little bit.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Got to the City of Tears, sharpened my nail, visited the statue. Still can't believe how awesome this game is.

FWIW, City of Tears is where the game really starts hitting its stride IMO.

 

[HansDampf]

But making female goddesses ugly or weird-looking at best is suspicious, considering the other changes. Also, Epic title, which means you shouldn't buy it by default (but pirating is fine).

I wouldn't say that female goddesses are ugly. Could you bring any example?

You'd be surprised, some Codexers even think Aphrodite looks fugly.

 

[Alphard]

Got to the City of Tears, sharpened my nail, visited the statue. Still can't believe how awesome this game is.

FWIW, City of Tears is where the game really starts hitting its stride IMO.

COT is my visually least favorite area. WHile it has a lot of things going on gameplay wise, i find it too bland. On the other hand Greenway while beautiful is a mess from a gameplay standpoint. Too large, too much backtracking and too much labirynthic, at the start of game when you don't even have mobility tools. It's where i got bored of the game for the first time and quitted it, before giving it another chance

 

[Ash]

Yeah I don't get the City of Tears hype. Not particularly fond of the music in this area either. Greenpath, Fungal Wastes and Crystal Peak are more my areas.

I do get the impression that Hades is written by some staunch leftists, but not of the extremist or dumb kind (same thing really), nor is it overly imposing or preachy, so I don't have a single problem with it.

 

[Momock]

How the FUCK when someone who hasn't played since the NES asks you for games similar to HK you come up with Hades or Darkwood?!?

A GBA emulator with Aria of Sorrow + Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission is the way to go.

 

[Elwro]

Jesus, Soul Warrior. Grrr.

And yes, I have already read that there's a second one that summons minions...

 

[Alphard]

I want to see the face of Elwro when he discovers that

Spoiler

pantheon of Hallownest

exists.