Horizon's Gate - open world seafaring tactical RPG from Voidspire Tactics dev

[Zanzoken]

I liked this game a lot the first time around, though I didn't finish it. Probably a good time to give it another go.

 

[Kaivokz]

how you dump 120 hours in this game is 20 hours long max. Its still a great game keeps you hooked from start to finish can't say that about other rpgs.

Not 120, but I spent 65 hours exploring the whole world back when it first released (before some additional content and dungeons were added).

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

the class unlock system is this game's own demise. by the time i got to finally unlock them all and was ready to start experimenting, i had a killer fleet and was fed up with the game hours before already.

 

[Eldiran]

Can't wait for some solid info in his latest project. He's been posting an occasional GIF on his twitter account, but I can't seem to find any of them. He might have taken them down in anticipation of a full reveal soon. Either way, Rad Codex fans have no fear, there is more on the way! Maybe Eldiran would be so kind as to drop by and give us a sneak preview sometime in the near future.

Thanks! : ) And thanks for posting the HG updates. I've got a couple of little previews on my twitter like these




Here's a random enemy I've been making that I haven't posted yet.

The basic gist of the next project is completely redoing the combat (all new classes, no more facing, heavy emphasis on positioning/displacement) and making a smaller Voidspire-sized adventure. Feel free to hit me with questions although it's all still very much WIP, TBD, etc. Haven't even nailed down the plot 100% yet.

Eldiran, I see a lot of people praising the music—have you considered trying to get Kevin on board to compose an original soundtrack for your next game? I’m not sure if that’s something he’s interested in, but in my head his music is synonymous with your games.

Funny you should say that... there may actually be a few commissioned pieces next game. : )

 

[WhiteShark]

The basic gist of the next project is completely redoing the combat (all new classes, no more facing, heavy emphasis on positioning/displacement) and making a smaller Voidspire-sized adventure.

No more facing? What was wrong with it?
That said, I'm really excited to hear you're working on another one similar to Voidspire. VT is one of my favorite games of all time. You baited me into posting again after months away from the codex with that news.

 

[Lyre Mors]

making a smaller Voidspire-sized adventure.

Obviously you know why you're deciding to make it smaller, but as a huge fan of Voidspire, I would say I was left wanting a bit more of it by the end. I was hoping a Voidspire-style game would be next up in the Rad Codex catalog (still loved Horizon's Gate, but ultimately enjoyed the exploration in Voidspire more), but along with that was that it'd be a little meatier, with even more to explore. Not a ton by any means, but another 5-10 hours worth would be my ideal length for something of that scope.

You've got a guaranteed purchase from me regardless, as all of your future RPG projects will have. Just wanted to voice my opinion a bit on that. Thanks for coming by and sharing!

 

[Eldiran]

No more facing? What was wrong with it?
That said, I'm really excited to hear you're working on another one similar to Voidspire. VT is one of my favorite games of all time. You baited me into posting again after months away from the codex with that news.

Haha, thanks! Nothing wrong with facing, but I'm simplifying everything and then adding the complexity back in elsewhere. (Also dropping facing lets me make half as many sprites!) Dodge will be omnidirectional but player-only. Instead I'm putting more complexity into terrain (physical attacks make electrocutable blood, all frost magic creates slippery push-enhancing ice, all fire magic leaves behind fire hazards, etc.)

Obviously you know why you're deciding to make it smaller, but as a huge fan of Voidspire, I would say I was left wanting a bit more of it by the end. I was hoping a Voidspire-style game would be next up in the Rad Codex catalog (still loved Horizon's Gate, but ultimately enjoyed the exploration in Voidspire more), but along with that was that it'd be a little meatier, with even more to explore. Not a ton by any means, but another 5-10 hours worth would be my ideal length for something of that scope.

You've got a guaranteed purchase from me regardless, as all of your future RPG projects will have. Just wanted to voice my opinion a bit on that. Thanks for coming by and sharing!

No prob, thank you for the support! The plan is Voidspire size, but I always want to add more meat and tend to get caught up in scope creep, so we'll see how it turns out.

 

[Kaivokz]

Eldiran, I see a lot of people praising the music—have you considered trying to get Kevin on board to compose an original soundtrack for your next game? I’m not sure if that’s something he’s interested in, but in my head his music is synonymous with your games.

Funny you should say that... there may actually be a few commissioned pieces next game. : )

Awesome! Having some original pieces in that style would be great, though I understand why you primarily use free (but still high quality) music.

The basic gist of the next project is completely redoing the combat (all new classes, no more facing, heavy emphasis on positioning/displacement) and making a smaller Voidspire-sized adventure. Feel free to hit me with questions although it's all still very much WIP, TBD, etc. Haven't even nailed down the plot 100% yet.

Do you have a plan for a new exploration/progression system? e.g. Voidspire had using items in the environments to access new areas or secrets, Alvora introduced roguelike elements, and Horizon’s Gate of course had sailing and trading (plus great secret areas and characters hidden around the world).

By emphasis on displacement, do you mean abilities that push/move enemies around the map? What will be the incentive to displace enemies, rather than just attack or stun/incapacitate them? Environmental interaction, more delayed abilities, etc?

I’m happy to hear you’re creating a whole new set of classes; one of my favorite things about this kind of character system is finding synergies between different abilities—like combining quick pockets with berserker rage and throw weapon to deal out huge damage with thrown axes at a long range every round, or finding synergies between items and abilities—a straightforward example would be combining the blindfold item with the ability that gives you bonuses while blind.

 

[Thac0]

and making a smaller Voidspire-sized adventure.

Very excited for this. Voidspire is your most fun game for me, as your strength is very much in hand placed locations with tons of hidden tricks. I found so much great treasure in Voidspire by digging up suspicious patches of sand, or vaulting down shady cliff faces with ropes. Randomly generated locations just can't keep up with that, a forest shrine is infinitely more boring than any of Voidspires maps, even if Horizons Gate can have like 200 of them.

(all new classes,

Why tho?
Don't fix what isn't broken is a winged word, and your classes are good. If you look at Final Fantasy Tactics series they did not change their classes much between entries either.
Seems like a lot of work for a questionable payoff, or are you just juggling skills around from the old classes with a few new ones mixed in?

complexity into terrain (physical attacks make electrocutable blood, all frost magic creates slippery push-enhancing ice, all fire magic leaves behind fire hazards, etc.)

Just watch out that that doesn't become too tedious, Divinity Original Sin games don't have the best standing around these parts because there is so much aids on the floor.

 

[Kaivokz]

Why tho?
Don't fix what isn't broken is a winged word, and your classes are good. If you look at Final Fantasy Tactics series they did not change their classes much between entries either.
Seems like a lot of work for a questionable payoff, or are you just juggling skills around from the old classes with a few new ones mixed in?

I’ll make a counter argument:

The first FF tactics game has 33 unique classes, counting special character classes and all the generic classes with their branching paths.

Advanced mixed this up by splitting classes into races, including basic and upgraded: humans have 11 options, bangaa have 7, mu mou have 8, viera have 8, moogles have 8, and then there are a handful of special jobs, totaling around 40 unique classes.

There is some overlap in the basic job flavors (white mage, black mage, warrior, paladin, etc.), but there are also significant changes to the job roster in the special classes and race specific classes, and even more changes to gameplay surrounding jobs, like the item-based abilities.

So I think your premise is faulty. In FFTA’s case, this change was for the worse in my opinion, but that is more because of the design direction than simply because there was change.


For me a big part of the fun of these games is coming up with unique combos of classes to interact with the systems of the game in fun ways—if the classes are always basically the same, this experimentation goes away.

I imagine basic class archetypes will stay, even if new classes are created to work within the overhauled combat system.

 

[Thac0]

Why tho?
Don't fix what isn't broken is a winged word, and your classes are good. If you look at Final Fantasy Tactics series they did not change their classes much between entries either.
Seems like a lot of work for a questionable payoff, or are you just juggling skills around from the old classes with a few new ones mixed in?

I’ll make a counter argument:

The first game has 33 unique classes, counting special character classes and all the generic classes with their branching paths.

Advanced mixed this up by splitting classes into races, including basic and upgraded: humans have 11 options, bangaa have 7, mu mou have 8, viera have 8, moogles have 8, and then there are a handful of special jobs, totaling around 40 unique classes.

There is some overlap in the basic job flavors (white mage, black mage, warrior, paladin, etc.), but there are also significant changes to the job roster in the special classes and race specific classes, and even more changes to gameplay surrounding jobs, like the item-based abilities.

So I think your premise is faulty. In FFTA’s case, this change was for the worse in my opinion, but that is more because of the design direction than simply because there was change.


For me a big part of the fun of these games is coming up with unique combos of classes to interact with the systems of the game in fun ways—if the classes are always basically the same, this experimentation goes away.

I imagine basic class archetypes will stay, even if new classes are created to work within the overhauled combat system.

I have no problem with the basic Fighter, Thief, Mage classes staying the same, and the elite classes getting mixed around and reworked for each game.
I just hope that we do not get a system where fighter gets replaced with some hipster shit like Crushmaster like in codex darling Black Geyser for no real reason.

 

[Eldiran]

Do you have a plan for a new exploration/progression system? e.g. Voidspire had using items in the environments to access new areas or secrets, Alvora introduced roguelike elements, and Horizon’s Gate of course had sailing and trading (plus great secret areas and characters hidden around the world).

Currently considering a city map that lets you go directly to various battlefields (FFT-style) or to larger interconnected dungeon zones. Haven't quite decided yet. But progression will be purely Voidspire-style.

By emphasis on displacement, do you mean abilities that push/move enemies around the map? What will be the incentive to displace enemies, rather than just attack or stun/incapacitate them? Environmental interaction, more delayed abilities, etc?

There are more abilities that push, pull, create terrain hazards, fortifications, or have special effects based on terrain features. Delayed abilities are now devastating, but always happen after the enemy turn meaning coordination is required. Pushing can also be more damaging than a regular attack since it hurts both the pushed and the pushed-into.

Example push/ice shenanigans:

Why tho?
Don't fix what isn't broken is a winged word, and your classes are good. If you look at Final Fantasy Tactics series they did not change their classes much between entries either.
Seems like a lot of work for a questionable payoff, or are you just juggling skills around from the old classes with a few new ones mixed in?

Yeah, I put it off as long as I could. But since I wanted big changes to the combat system, this was a good time to make all new classes. There are still some very similar ones ('Knight' is basically Warrior but with a Readied Strike instead of 'Battlecry') because the core ideas still work for some classes. But others that rely on evasion/facing/timing/whatever no longer fit.

The new systems are a bit of an experiment. In my tests they're quite fun, but there's a non-zero chance I'll go back to HG's combat/classes afterward.

Combat example:
(do these Twitter embeds actually work? They don't load for me.)

Just watch out that that doesn't become too tedious, Divinity Original Sin games don't have the best standing around these parts because there is so much aids on the floor.

Agreed, it's no fun if everything's just exploding all the time, or if you're permanently stunlocked because the ground itself is stunning you.

 

[Thac0]

Combat example:
(do these Twitter embeds actually work? They don't load for me.)

Loads for me, and looks great. I love the change to smaller damage numbers, dealing 6 and seeing the hp bar halven looks very satisfying.
Not having the ground stunlock you is a good step, and the floor is lava not triggering when you walk over it on your turn seems like a good way to avoid the sheer annoyingness that comes from DOS 2 combat.
The moodier art is interesting aswell, since the series in general has been becoming more light hearted I feel.
My concerns are alleviated, I will definitly purchase the next entry.

 

[Lyre Mors]

The plan is Voidspire size

Oh, awesome! I think I misunderstood the initial post. Seems like you meant the game will be around the same size as Voidspire, but smaller than Horizon's Gate. Great news! Would be ecstatic if it managed to grow a little bit from that.

or to larger interconnected dungeon zones.

My vote is on this one. While I love pure tactical games like Tactics Ogre and FFT, something that has always charmed me about your games is how nicely you melded that style of gameplay with almost Ultima VII style world interaction, and of course rewarding and compelling exploration. Having an interconnected world was a great part of this, and I'm sure many around here would agree. If you're going for a full-on tactics style game, I would understand. But your combination of pure RPG exploration with tactical battles is solid gold, imo.

 

[Machocruz]

Sailing would still be cool in a smaller scale world. Maybe a little bit of trading and ship battling, but mostly for travel between different continents, like Ultimas. Horizon was too much, imo, but the base ship mechanics were solid.

 

[Tweed]

Been playing this one and my current take is thus:

Better than Alvora, not as good as Voidspire. The mod that speeds up sailing is an absolute must as are the xp modifiers if you don't want to spend weeks just trying to raise a B and C team and you're going to want to unless you like watching a bunch of newbs die to boarding parties. I don't get how Alvora had the smart idea of trickle down xp (unlockable) and HG has sweet FA except for sticking someone in a port town for a whopping 1xp per day. I absolutely HATE how class abilities have been split up over multiple new class types and there's no joy in finding trainers. I've also noticed that any spell above about 13 ticks is completely worthless. It's not worth trying to set up some ultimate trick shot because the AI isn't stupid enough to give them to you. The time you spend trying to push or root enemies with underperforming spells could be better spent buffing or doing damage.

I think Rad Codex took some pages out of Sawyer's books, pre-buffing doesn't seem to work so swell anymore and the most powerful classes got a serious nerf so weird hokey things could have their day in the sun. It doesn't really solve anything it just makes people switch to the next meta. Otherwise it's been a lot of fun, more fun with mods that add more to the landscape and some extra classes. Ship combat could be faster.

 

[Tweed]

Finished it. Uhh, that was it? The whole game feels incidental for these few big battles you're powering yourself up for. There's no real plot except for the start and the small exposition at the end, nothing to carry you along as you trade or rise in ranks. It's like there's a big ocean of stuff to do and it's up to you to decide how long you want to distract yourself before you go and complete the game and therein lies the problem with so many sandbox style games. The stuff is all just stuff, isolated bits of things while you watch the numbers go up and then say "Okay let's go end the game." It makes the entire experience rather hollow. This is part of why Voidspire is still the best in the bunch. The unfolding story holds it all together for the build up at the end. HG has no build up of any kind. Almost feels like someone needs to go in and mod a story.

The main villain for Voidspire at least shows up several times and you can even tell him to fuck off and start a really difficult battle if you really want to. Here bigbad shows up at the beginning and then again at the very end. In fact, picking fights in Voidspire was one of my favorite parts.

 

[CryptRat]

I totally agree Voidspire is the best because finding secrets and shortcuts, stumbling upon an already visited part, picking fights, coming back with the right tool work much better in a compact, interconnected world. Each parts are a few steps away from each other and there are actual secrets to find while walking, you're always keeping an eye open to search for something new when crossing previously visited areas, walking in Voidspire is fun, sailing in Horizon's Gate is not, a big deal since you'll spend a lot of time doing just that in both cases.

And on top of that as you say there's something satisfying about having to apprehend the world in its entirety to be able and reach the end. It's my favourite type of structure too, a fully explorable, compact, interconnected, world and a big non linear quest.

That said, if it's essentially not my favourite structure, I am glad that sometimes someone has the balls to put it just like that, the extreme way, with the villain being right there, you know where he is and can go there from the very beginning (and you'll just get stronger however you want and get back whenever you want), most games don't go that far so there's just something very cool about it. Therefore I can't blame Horizon's Gate for that.

 

[Rafidur]

Having a great time with mods, which fix the main flaw of this game (not enough shit to do on the map - groves and trade grinding don't count).

However, there's one called "Forest of Endless Night" that lags like shit and made my saves 1mb heavier, slowing everything down. Is it safe to remove the [Zone] file from my save?

 

[HoboForEternity]

I didn't know there were mods, I looked up and saw quite a lot!

a few bigger dungeons would make it better, also I see there is a mod that procedurally generates grooves to add more room (the biggest disappointment are the grooves really) and it progress as you unlock more grooves and makes the later grooves larger

 

[cyborgboy95]

Version 1.5.88: Enchanter enhancer
While Enchants themselves are quite powerful, sometimes being an Enchanter feels a bit weak... time to change that! In addition there are some hull changes, improvements to Guardian's Impair, and various bugfixes. Notably, the Unmaker's Decay is now quite a bit more effective due to bugs fixed in its damage calculation.

BALANCE

• Enchanter's 'Elemental Fury's +5 Physical Attack now lasts 40t instead of 1 turn
• Enchanters now also gain +1 Physical Defense
• Enchanters can now rank up HP
• Guardian's 'Impair' max rank increased from 2 -> 3, and XP costs reduced
• Warpblade's 'Gate: Trick' MP cost increased from 2 -> 3
• Cog hull reduced from 22 -> 20
• Towership hull increased from 33 -> 35

FIXES

• Added journal entries for 'Towerwall', 'Pole', 'Door', and 'Seartial Banner'
• Fixed 'Decay' damage being reduced by enemy Magic Defense and Ruin Skill twice
• Fixed 'Decay' damage being reduced against certain HP-based-damage-resistant foes
• Fixed Splitworms splitting when healed
• Fixed being able to be damaged by Spikes during the formation phase
• Fixed Solport not spawning hires at its cafe
• Fixed being able to talk to NPCs through walls under roofs while you are outside
• Fixed spending XP at a Training Ground reducing shared Minimum XP of new recruits
• Essence Flow now fires mid-turn if you spend MP twice in a single turn

MODDING

• Automatons are now vulnerable to the 'antiMachine' element
• Added formula prefix 'ceiling'
• Fixed crash when using shoddy wooden doors
• Fixed queued tasks not clearing on loading a new game
• Fixed Ctrl+R causing crash if loading .lua files
• removeFromParty task can now have bValue1 specify whether to remove from fleet
• Added "GlobalFormula" as an alternative to "FormulaGlobal"

 

[LibertyRansom]

Reviving this thread. Saw Horizon gate has been continually getting updates and more content since it's release. Looks like it's tracking great reviews.

Can anyone comment on how it plays now?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Went back to playing this after Kingsvein. KV was great but I felt like I fully conquered that game already, whereas HG has more left to give.

Like MadMaxHellfire said above, I felt by the time I had all the classes unlocked I was ready to be done with the game. I beat it with a team of Brawler, Gladiator, Marksman, Sorcerer, and Elementalist, which are all early-tier classes. This time I installed the mod that unlocks all class requirements from the start, so you only need XP, and it makes your builds much more flexible from the beginning.

My build strat this time is an elemental-fighter based party. Use the top-tier classes combined with the Enchanter's elemental buffs w/ Ranger's Instant Aid and Spell Archon's attacks (this will require both Crest slots for everyone in the long run too). Combine with the utility of elemental weapons and the diminishing returns of skill gains (its more efficient at a certain point to build multiple stats), I expect some satisfyingly obscene damage levels. We'll see.

I installed a bunch of mods, the ones that add extra dungeons are great. The one I'm not too keen on so far is 'Groverhaul' that expands all the groves. I liked how the groves were before, short little encounters and a bit of treasure, then back to sea. Now they are real timesinks with too many combats. 1-2 extra per grove would have been fine. There's also a ton of new weapon types that just muddy the waters. There's also some new towns and new types of randomized dungeons, it's all pretty good stuff.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I forgot how weak the faction quests are. The first Jasce quest was to get an item I could buy in their own market. These feel like placeholders that were put in until the real missions, which never got finished.

Every faction should have had unique quests. Send the player to some kind of dungeon, fight the other factions fleets, take over ports, etc. The faction system barely matters in the game. The fun of Uncharted Waters was going to war.

The final mission should have been spread out too. Give the bad guy a bunch of lieutenants spread throughout the world. The player has to track them down and beat them to get the keys to the final area. Maybe you bribe the info, find it in a dungeon, or fight their fleets. There should have been more pirates too.

This is a really fun game but it feels like a big waste of potential too. Unfortunately all the complaining seems to have convinced the dev he should just do Voidspire games. But a smaller open campaign centered around a bay or archipelago with more active factions, land and sea exploration, and interesting dungeons would be great too.

 

[oasis789]

I don't think its fair to blame eldiran for not making uncharted waters when even koei doesn't know how to make uncharted waters anymore.