How big a difference was 1st to 2nd edition AD&D.

[Argronok]

Hello I am new here in this "illustrious" forum that is the RPG Codex. I am very familiar with this site and its community but never bothered actually joining it, until recently that is. Lets just say I am in an RPG mood and I have a bunch of question that a community like this could aid me with. Like this thread.

So how big a difference was the change from 1st edition AD&D to 2nd Edtion? Particularly the changes and additions of the monsters and their stats. The reason I ask this is because I wanna try out the SSI Gold Box games that GOG.com is selling. And I heard all these D&D games even including all the up to Neverwinter Nights 2 uses the exact statistics and rules from the official AD&D rules and manuals.

So basically I wanna be savvy on how tough and what abilities the 1st edition versions of the monsters are in the SSI Gold Box games. At least compared to 2nd Edition to which I have played Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale 1.

 

[Gregz]

2nd edition was a sizable expansion across the board. One big decline however was TSR removing demons and devils from the monster manual. The game was getting a lot of politically charged bad press during the early 80s. So 'occult' symbols were removed or downplayed in an attempt to appease the religious right and 'concerned' parents.

So how big a difference was the change from 1st edition AD&D to 2nd Edtion? Particularly the changes and additions of the monsters and their stats. The reason I ask this is because I wanna try out the SSI Gold Box games

Any cRPG differences between games based on AD&D vs. 2nd edition will be negligible. The biggest changes happened after the 3.X editions. (Temple of Elemental Evil, Knights of the Chalice, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, etc.)

 

[TemplarGR]

Another ALT attempting to troll the codex. How original...

 

[Argronok]

Another ALT attempting to troll the codex. How original...

Believe what you will, I am not an ALT.

 

[razvedchiki]

Thats highly ironic coming from you.

 

[TemplarGR]

Thats highly ironic coming from you.

I am not an ALT

 

[Dorateen]

2nd edition introduced Kits. In first edition AD&D, we didn't need kits.

As far as monster abilities in the SSI games, watch out for level drain, especially low-level characters who can be irrevocably destroyed if they lose all their levels. Petrification is a particularly nasty affliction to deal with. As is poison, and disease, which will prevent characters from recovering hit points until the receive a cure accordingly.

Any creatures that can paralyze, or charm through their gaze ability, should be heeded as well.

 

[aweigh]

sup... Drog?

:makesyouthink:

 

[razvedchiki]

I am not an ALT

 

[TemplarGR]

I can't prove i am not an elephant, you have to take my word on it.

 

[Comte]

Hello I am new here in this "illustrious" forum that is the RPG Codex. I am very familiar with this site and its community but never bothered actually joining it, until recently that is. Lets just say I am in an RPG mood and I have a bunch of question that a community like this could aid me with. Like this thread.

So how big a difference was the change from 1st edition AD&D to 2nd Edtion? Particularly the changes and additions of the monsters and their stats. The reason I ask this is because I wanna try out the SSI Gold Box games that GOG.com is selling. And I heard all these D&D games even including all the up to Neverwinter Nights 2 uses the exact statistics and rules from the official AD&D rules and manuals.

So basically I wanna be savvy on how tough and what abilities the 1st edition versions of the monsters are in the SSI Gold Box games. At least compared to 2nd Edition to which I have played Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale 1.

Sup Drog

 

[Darth Canoli]

I can't prove i am not an elephant, you have to take my word on it.

I believe you, you're not an elephant.

Spoiler

Elephants are smart

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The core rules included one important change from AD&D 1st edition to 2nd edition: experience points were no longer awarded for treasure but instead for defeating monsters (as in 1st edition), completing adventures as a group, and performing individual deeds appropriate to a character's class.

As for the Gold Box games: they're classics. You should play them and marvel at their superiority to Bioware's drek.

 

[Lilura]

As for the Gold Box games: they're classics. You should play them and marvel at their superiority to Bioware's drek.

There is no way in the world any SSI Goldbox game is superior to BioWare's Baldur's Gate.

 

[octavius]

As for the Gold Box games: they're classics. You should play them and marvel at their superiority to Bioware's drek.

There is no way in the world any SSI Goldbox game is superior to BioWare's Baldur's Gate.

Well, they are turn based, so that's one way they are superior.
But everything else...

 

[Lilura]

Yeah, I'm talking "on the whole".

BG wins on:

Size and scope

Spoiler

Encounter design

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Reactivity

Spoiler

Questing

Spoiler

Tactics

Spoiler

Stealth

Spoiler

Character building
Party composition (can make all six characters by playing single-player in multi-player mode)

Spoiler

Itemization

Spoiler

Spells

Spoiler

Dungeons (Durlag's Tower)

Spoiler

City/towns
Wilderness zones
Ambushes/waylays

Spoiler

Story

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Dialogue
Characterizations
Realmslore

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User Interface

Spoiler

Backdrops
Animations
Visual Effects

Spoiler

Music
Sound Effects
Ambience
Narration
Voicesets
Humor/parody
Replayability
Meta-gaming
(mods)

ofc, it's not perfect. It's RTwP and has pathing issues. But it's not like Goldbox is ToEE/JA2 level of TB. Not even close.

 

[Viata]

Tbh, Zed shouldn't compare SSI Goldbox games with the trash with RTwP.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

2nd edition introduced Kits. In first edition AD&D, we didn't need kits.

In fairness, kits were only introduced as options in the Complete Class_Name's Handbook series; they weren't part of the core rules.

Of course, kits and the various other options introduced in the Complete Handbook series eventually lead to the Player's Option books and ultimately paved the way for the even greater changes to character customization contained in the core rules of AD&D 3rd edition or, as I like to call it, "munchkin D&D".

 

[DemonKing]

The basic concepts are pretty much identical between 1st and 2nd edition - stats and ability bonuses/penalties are identical.

The main changes are:

* Specialist mages introduced for all schools of magic (eg illusionists, necromancers, invokers etc)
* Demons/Devils renamed to something less scary to the moral minority (identical otherwise to 1st ed.)
* "Evil" character options removed (assassin, half-orc etc)

Later on 2nd Ed. expansions introduced a lot of power creep in the forms of character kits and the Skills & Powers book, but the core game didn't change much. I don't think you'll have many issues getting a handle on the Gold Box games if you've played the BG series, for example.

 

[Lilura]

I don't think you'll have many issues getting a handle on the Gold Box games if you've played the BG series, for example.

True. Because BG is deeper, more complex and more interesting than any GoldBox game. This is true of any Renaissance RPG when compared with the Stone Age "equivalent".

 

[Dorateen]

I'm going to fire up FRUA and be playing some Gold Box goodness in 2018.

 

[Lilura]

I'm going to fire up FRUA and be playing some Gold Box goodness in 2018.

Looking forward to reading about your experiences. Btw, your Grimoire review was a good read.

 

[mondblut]

So basically I wanna be savvy on how tough and what abilities the 1st edition versions of the monsters are in the SSI Gold Box games. At least compared to 2nd Edition to which I have played Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale 1.

The one thing that matters is that in 1e demihumans had ridiculously crippling level limits (I mean, like capped at level 5 for some), and for any Goldbox game which is not the first part of a series they just as well might not exist. OTOH, the maximum level cap in final entries in the series is 40, far beyond the 2e scope. That aside, the differences are mostly cosmetic even in the original game, let alone computer ones.

 

[CappenVarra]

IIRC, save or die poison was removed in 2nd ed? That was always FUN

 

[Fairfax]

Hello I am new here in this "illustrious" forum that is the RPG Codex. I am very familiar with this site and its community but never bothered actually joining it, until recently that is. Lets just say I am in an RPG mood and I have a bunch of question that a community like this could aid me with. Like this thread.

So how big a difference was the change from 1st edition AD&D to 2nd Edtion? Particularly the changes and additions of the monsters and their stats. The reason I ask this is because I wanna try out the SSI Gold Box games that GOG.com is selling. And I heard all these D&D games even including all the up to Neverwinter Nights 2 uses the exact statistics and rules from the official AD&D rules and manuals.

So basically I wanna be savvy on how tough and what abilities the 1st edition versions of the monsters are in the SSI Gold Box games. At least compared to 2nd Edition to which I have played Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale 1.

If this isn't just bait: don't worry about the rulesets. There's no faithful adaptation of either edition, and there are much bigger differences in how each dev implemented the rules than between 1E and 2E.

* "Evil" character options removed (assassin, half-orc etc)

The half-orc's issue was the implied rape that people assumed it had, but it eventually came back in the Complete Book of Humanoids. The assassin was brought back in The Complete Thief's Handbook, just months after the PHB came out.

The races, kits, and stories got edgier with time (90s, after all), so this didn't really hurt the game.

IIRC, save or die poison was removed in 2nd ed? That was always FUN

Partially. In 2E, poison follows a poison type table or has special rules. Many enemies still have save or die poison, but it's not like 1E.