How RPGs Were A 30-Year Detour

[mysterious-stranger]

Well that was stupid, I blame the Wii and the influx of casual gamers for this EXTREME ACTION focus and decline of RPG elements

 

[Shannow]

Many of you are acting as if this were a new level of stupid. It's not. There were various press releases for aRPGs that made similar statements. Most of those failed *snicker*
I think one of my first posts on the codex was about something like this.

And skyway, you know I'm often on your side, bro. But you're simply fucking wrong this time, so shut the fuck up.

 

[MetalCraze]

Bullshit. It has nothing to do with that and you fucking know it. Yet again you ignore reality so you can fit your own bullshit world view.

I reiterate: people are not whining at them making a console action game. They are complaining about the fucker trying to suggest that no-one really wanted TB games but instead wanted this type of thing, only it wasn't possible to have a game like this back then. We TB fans were instead FORCED by technology to play substandard TB crap until inXile showed up to liberate us from the swamps of drudgery and shitty mechanics.

I guess you still can't read so let me streamline it for you

"If you didn't keep buying this shit there would be no retarded PR guys. So stop fucking crying"

 

[Jasede]

But that's simply not true.
Who here would buy something like Mass Effect 2 or trash like Dragon Age? Sure, there might be a few, but they're the minority.

These games sell amazingly well with or without the few deluded idiots here buying them- and they do it because they're action, main-stream, loud, colorful and American.

 

[commie]

I guess you still can't read so let me streamline it for you

"If you didn't keep buying this shit there would be no retarded PR guys. So stop fucking crying"

I guess you still can't read so let me just repeat a third time: the fact that some people here buy games like this has no relevance to bitching about this guys' views. His opinion is that people REALLY wanted action games when playing TB games. That is the thing people are complaining about. A hypocritical idiot like you who sinks hundreds of hours into KotOR and thinks BG2 is the greatest RPG of all time should be the last person to dare to mock people for liking different genres. You're far more a consoletard than most given your epic gaming list. People that complain here are not hypocritical, some like both ARPG's AND TB games, many others haven't even bought any ARPG's of the type you describe so your point is generalised bullshit as always with no basis in fact. What they take issue with is this guy's entire ideological bent which tries to belittle the TB genre as some kind of stop-gap, something tolerated only until TRUE RPG's were created.

Also for a definition of hypocrisy see you bitching about the odd TW2 QTE while professing your love for Fahrenheit, one giant QTE!

 

[MetalCraze]

I guess you still can't read so let me just repeat a third time: the fact people here buy games like this has no relevance to bitching about this guys' views. His opinion is that people REALLY wanted action games when playing TB games. That is the thing people are complaining about.

Yes I know. But do they have the right co complain while supporting them?

A hypocritical idiot like you who sinks hundreds of hours into KotOR and thinks BG2 is the greatest RPG of all time should be the last person to dare to mock people for liking different genres.

I'm sure you can do better than inventing stuff about me and putting words in my mouth?
And since when did BG2 became shit? Is it cool to bash it on the Codex - I kinda missed that part.

People that complain here are not hypocritical, they like both ARPG's AND TB games.

No people that complain here are retards like you who buy/fap all over dumbed down piece of shit like TW2 and then pretend that they in fact hate the decline and bash this moron for his views.
If his views are wrong - why do you keep buying shit like TW2 instead of KotC? Why?
Let's count how much fap is there about TW2 and how many posts are there about KotC?

See I never pretended that I didn't play KotOR a lot or gave BG2 a high mark (same as to Fallout). And when the decline went too far I simply stopped supporting it.
But you morons keep pretending like you fucking care about the decline all while fapping to whatever retarded shit comes out.

So if this dude is wrong why do you keep proving him right?

 

[Jasede]

But that just isn't true! Most people here don't support the "decline" games. I think you are just claiming they do because of some problem or to get attention. I'm sure most here bought KotC; it's fantastic. I was sure to do so!

Of course it also disappointed me: now there's one less game like it to play.

See, if most here did buy games like ME or Dragon's Age, then you'd have a point. But you have to realize: a few fans can seem way more noisy than the majority. I'm sure the majority didn't buy or support these action-games. (That said, if The Witcher 2 had great writing and C&C and a great combat system, there should be no shame in buying it. But if it's anything like the first part...)

Edit: Also, I think to answer your question, I think they might buy games like the Witcher 2 out of boredom, genuine interest, patriotism, love for the "independent" or, of course, because they simply like that style of game just as much as turn-based games.

Let's face it: when there are no good turn-based games on the market, AND you don't mind a more actiony game once in a while, why would you not buy one if you think it's good?

It doesn't matter if they like these games or not, skyway! What matters is that when a good TB game does come out they buy it, to support the format.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

ME, ME2, Dragon Age, DA2, The Witcher, The Witcher 2, KotC. I bought all those games. Sure, I bought KotC twice. But the only game I'd not buy again is DA2.

 

[MetalCraze]

But that just isn't true! Most people here don't support the "decline" games. I think you are just claiming they do because of some problem or to get attention. I'm sure most here bought KotC; it's fantastic. I was sure to do so!

Hehe nice joke

Either that or ME/DA/TW2/FO3 are not "decline" games

 

[Jasede]

Well, I haven't bought ME, DA, TW2 or FO3. I've bought NV because I felt I should support Avellone (but you know I outed myself as a fanboy, so it's not like that was hypocritical). And of course I bought KotC- the best game I've played in the last three years, easily beating NV (even though I thought NV wasn't that bad!) on grounds of being a ~real~ RPG for manly men.

And honestly, I don't think many here actually bought these games either. Don't you remember how many talk about piracy? They're way too poor and lazy to buy games, so I wouldn't worry too much.

But you know, you do raise one good point:

For example, I bought New Vegas in the hopes Obsidian would one day make a really, really good, not real-time turn-based RPG where they can put in all their writing (for better or for worse, as tastes differ). But there's no way for me to be sure that my purchase won't instead send the sad signal: "YES! People love first-person real-time popamole!! Let's make Alpha Protocol 2!!!"

 

[Ruprekt]

So, if developers had just taken Golden Axe and added cutscenes and a dating sim... history could have skipped the so-called era of 'classic rpgs'?

Our whole gaming lives have been one big fat flaming homosexual dead end of western civilization?

 

[MetalCraze]

And honestly, I don't think many here actually bought these games either. Don't you remember how many talk about piracy? They're way too poor and lazy to buy games, so I wouldn't worry too much.

I'm a brokeass pirate but I do buy games I like. Of course Codex pirates games but they buy a lot of games too.
Codex's Steam group says so.

But you know, you do raise one good point:

For example, I bought New Vegas in the hopes Obsidian would one day make a really, really good, not real-time turn-based RPG where they can put in all their writing (for better or for worse, as tastes differ). But there's no way for me to be sure that my purchase won't instead send the sad signal: "YES! People love first-person real-time popamole!! Let's make Alpha Protocol 2!!!"

Exactly. But you see the problem is that people also fanboy-ishly defend NV.
Even though the difference between it and FO3 is next to none (and it was Sawyer's game, Avellone was doing AP) and yet people have no trouble bashing Bethesda even though NV has the exactly same dumbing down and every cent you pay for it goes to Beth first and foremost.
It's like bashing Pete Hines for retarded marketing yet buying his games.

Hey I believed in Obsidian too before they went making "RPGs" like this. But that was like 4 years ago.

 

[deus101]

Can i just say that....i never finished Alpha Protocol beyond the tutorial level and wish with all my hearth that i could refund it


I have zero faith in the market ability to find a place for everyone, and stuff like vote with your wallet seems naive to me.

That said Skyway is somewhat right.


And i still have faith that in the end Bioware shit will be so bland that other then the most retarded of cultist realises that the RPG tag in Bioware games dosent mean squat!

And at that time someone will start making RPG's with sober budgets and true to the standards of the genre, which will attract enough people that sees the value of the genre.

At the very least we should be able to survive just like the simulator niche do.

 

[Jaesun]

For example, I bought New Vegas in the hopes Obsidian would one day make a really, really good, not real-time turn-based RPG where they can put in all their writing (for better or for worse, as tastes differ).

No publisher on earth is ever going to approach Obsidian and ask them to do a turn-based cRPG.

 

[Jasede]

Yes. I know. They should make one and publish it themselves.

OR

Someone should become "the indie publisher"- there must be SOME money to be had there.

Did you ever read The Thornbirds? At the end, the pater recalls the story of a bird that sings only once in his life. He sings a beautiful song as he is impaling himself in thorns.

Call me morbid, but I think it's worth for us, as CRPG connoisseurs, when a good studio like Troika or Obsidian *dies* because they made some product only the niche enjoys. We'll remember them. Of course that doesn't feed their families.

Ah, isn't it frustrating? Either we are selfish, then feel guilty, but also glad that we got something, or we are generous and philanthropes and suffer the attached price tag.

 

[Metro]

Someone should become "the indie publisher"- there must be SOME money to be had there.

Tons. They're called 'Valve' and they make a killing buying out indie developers, slapping a marketing/meme on a game and selling it at a $50 pricepoint.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Obsidian isn't a good studio. You have to make good games to be a good studio. Beyond that, carry on.

 

[Gragt]

That's why I'm afraid of Valve. And yeah, I bought KotC pretty much one week or two after it was released. I didn't buy NV but received it as a gift while I planned to buy it during a sale since I'm careful about spending money. I also got NWN2 as a gift back then, but bought MotB and SoZ, as well as TW1 and TW2 myself on release. I bought ME but only during the last sale, which made it quite cheap, and I'll probably buy DA also when it'll be on the very cheap side, so I could see for myself and I'm not in a hurry.

I do believe about the "vote with your money" part, except I'm not sure that it may bring something good or better in the future, just that I approve of this current good shit I just paid for.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

But that just isn't true! Most people here don't support the "decline" games. I think you are just claiming they do because of some problem or to get attention.

I know you're trying to reason with him, but please don't; it will only feed his illness. He has a form of internet anorexia; he started out, having played KotOR seven times, realising that he just wasn't pretty enough to feel good about himself. So far, so good. He became a Codexer, joining a community where most people were already quite concerned about looking pretty for each other; a cutthroat, harsh community, eager to come down upon the first sign of a double chin or cellulite.

This might have done him good, for a while, but he never received proper treatment for his illness. Soon, all too soon, he raised himself to a higher standard than ever. In the mirror, he saw only fat, and in his madness, everyone around him too became obese monstrosities. What did it matter that 95% of them stuck to low calorie diets? He saw that guy over there eating a hamburger last week! He saw it and nobody cared! The truth was out - RPGCODEX LOVES HAMBURGERS AND ONLY PRETEND TO EAT A FULL-LETTUCE DIET TO FIT IN. And, of course, there were those who maintained a healthy weight while eating a diet that was in fashion before he started caring about his weight. Them... they're just pretentious elitists. He could not be pretty enough if he stooped to being like these people. These disgusting, greasy, size-1 slobs. No. He had tried the casual way. He had tried the Codex way. Now, all that was left to him was sitting in a corner of the room, sobbing and masturbating on copies of ArmA 2 and Colin McRae Rally while incessantly proclaiming how much he hated being there. The final way. The sky way.

 

[Esquilax]

I know you're trying to reason with him, but please don't; it will only feed his illness. He has a form of internet anorexia; he started out, having played KotOR seven times, realising that he just wasn't pretty enough to feel good about himself. So far, so good. He became a Codexer, joining a community where most people were already quite concerned about looking pretty for each other; a cutthroat, harsh community, eager to come down upon the first sign of a double chin or cellulite.

This might have done him good, for a while, but he never received proper treatment for his illness. Soon, all too soon, he raised himself to a higher standard than ever. In the mirror, he saw only fat, and in his madness, everyone around him too became obese monstrosities. What did it matter that 95% of them stuck to low calorie diets? He saw that guy over there eating a hamburger last week! He saw it and nobody cared! The truth was out - RPGCODEX LOVES HAMBURGERS AND ONLY PRETEND TO EAT A FULL-LETTUCE DIET TO FIT IN. And, of course, there were those who maintained a healthy weight while eating a diet that was in fashion before he started caring about his weight. Them... they're just pretentious elitists. He could not be pretty enough if he stooped to being like these people. These disgusting, greasy, size-1 slobs. No. He had tried the casual way. He had tried the Codex way. Now, all that was left to him was sitting in a corner of the room, sobbing and masturbating on copies of ArmA 2 and Colin McRae Rally while incessantly proclaiming how much he hated being there. The final way. The sky way.

Everyone in the Codex should be like BLOBERT; big and beautiful.

 

[Metro]

I can't remember the last game I bought that wasn't at least 50% off and the only games in the next few months/year I plan on buying at full price are Torchlight 2 (I could wait for a sale but I like Runic as a company) and probably Diablo 3 since Blizzard games never go on sale anyway. I'm sure I'm stating the obvious when I say the RPG market is basically dead -- Witcher 2 and the Risen series are pretty much the closest titles you will see in terms of 'mainstream' publication. So, does that mean I shouldn't play any modern games and/or wait the six+ years it takes for an indie team to put out a semi-decent budget RPG?

 

[Jigawatt]

I know you're trying to reason with him, but please don't; it will only feed his illness. He has a form of internet anorexia; he started out, having played KotOR seven times, realising that he just wasn't pretty enough to feel good about himself. So far, so good. He became a Codexer, joining a community where most people were already quite concerned about looking pretty for each other; a cutthroat, harsh community, eager to come down upon the first sign of a double chin or cellulite.

This might have done him good, for a while, but he never received proper treatment for his illness. Soon, all too soon, he raised himself to a higher standard than ever. In the mirror, he saw only fat, and in his madness, everyone around him too became obese monstrosities. What did it matter that 95% of them stuck to low calorie diets? He saw that guy over there eating a hamburger last week! He saw it and nobody cared! The truth was out - RPGCODEX LOVES HAMBURGERS AND ONLY PRETEND TO EAT A FULL-LETTUCE DIET TO FIT IN. And, of course, there were those who maintained a healthy weight while eating a diet that was in fashion before he started caring about his weight. Them... they're just pretentious elitists. He could not be pretty enough if he stooped to being like these people. These disgusting, greasy, size-1 slobs. No. He had tried the casual way. He had tried the Codex way. Now, all that was left to him was sitting in a corner of the room, sobbing and masturbating on copies of ArmA 2 and Colin McRae Rally while incessantly proclaiming how much he hated being there. The final way. The sky way.

 

[Gord]

See, if most here did buy games like ME or Dragon's Age, then you'd have a point

This aren't exactly the best examples. Sure, hindsight is always 20/20, but DA:O at least showed promise. It's not an entirely bad game, even if some people here would like to pretend. Only later the direction where BW was heading became really apparent.
And ME, well, there aren't many rpg(-surrogates) using a scifi-license and again, it showed some promise.
I'd say hoping for improvement (what many people here would call improvement) seemed justified a few years ago.
Unfortunately Bioware never delivered.

It doesn't matter if they like these games or not, skyway! What matters is that when a good TB game does come out they buy it, to support the format.

Unfortunately that happens almost never nowadays. And for that to happen in mainstream...

 

[circ]

Call me morbid, but I think it's worth for us, as CRPG connoisseurs, when a good studio like Troika or Obsidian *dies* because they made some product only the niche enjoys. We'll remember them. Of course that doesn't feed their families.

Good studio like Obsidian. Oh lawd. San Quentin might have a few innocent inmates, but that doesn't make it any less a den of thievery, villainy and sodomy. If Obsidian had unlimited funds and publishing rights, they would probably make a shittily optimized Quake Kitty 3: Butthole.

 

[circ]

This aren't exactly the best examples. Sure, hindsight is always 20/20, but DA:O at least showed promise. It's not an entirely bad game, even if some people here would like to pretend. Only later the direction where BW was heading became really apparent.
And ME, well, there aren't many rpg(-surrogates) using a scifi-license and again, it showed some promise.
I'd say hoping for improvement (what many people here would call improvement) seemed justified a few years ago.
Unfortunately Bioware never delivered.

Always the fucking apologists. Come on, you love the taste of BW jizz. BW didn't head in any direction it wasn't already in. It didn't suddenly decide to throw gay romances, whiny as fuck and recycled groupmates, linear areas, recycled plots into their games. They were always there. If it takes a shitfest like DA2 to realize what was always there, then that's tough.