Dragon Age How to Enjoy Dragon Age: Origins

[Ryan muller]

DA:O is from a technical standpoint and RPG lense is the best Bioware game.

i would say writing either, if people think DAO is very simple or has a "dull plot" i cant understand how the same person would enjoy any of their other stories, they all are simpler and less nuanced than that. from BG all the way to ME

 

[destinae vomitus]

Dragon Age did not really have much or any intrigue going on from what I recall, besides some stuff with Morrigan and a little bit with Loghain. There's darkspawn, you have to go stop them, go get allies by solving their local issues, yadda yadda. When you get down to it it's very straightfoward and by-the-numbers, comparable to something like KOTOR but with no trademark "shocking twist" to up-end things a little and thus it leans on the party dynamic (where one's mileage will vary, can't say I care for it, especially these days).

You could try to be similarly reductive about Mass Effect but that had the Reaper plot point which is gradually built up and unveiled, on top of being Bioware's take on a space opera rather than humdrum fantasy with elves & dwarves fighting against "orcs".

 

[Poseidon00]

Dragon Age did not really have much or any intrigue going on from what I recall, besides some stuff with Morrigan and a little bit with Loghain. There's darkspawn, you have to go stop them, go get allies by solving their local issues, yadda yadda. When you get down to it it's very straightfoward and by-the-numbers, comparable to something like KOTOR but with no trademark "shocking twist" to up-end things a little and thus it leans on the whole party dynamic (where one's mileage will vary, can't say I care for it, especially these days).

You could try to be similarly reductive about Mass Effect but that had the Reaper plot point which is gradually built up and unveiled, on top of being Bioware's take on a space opera rather than humdrum fantasy with elves & dwarves fighting against "orcs".

If you play as a dwarf noble there's a bit more political intrigue as one of your brothers falsely accuses you of killing the King and you get exiled and ultimately made a Gray Warden because of it. One of the better origin stories, they did dwarves justice in DAO in a way they never did again

 

[Ryan muller]

Dragon Age did not really have much or any intrigue going on from what I recall, besides some stuff with Morrigan and a little bit with Loghain. There's darkspawn, you have to go stop them, go get allies by solving their local issues, yadda yadda. When you get down to it it's very straightfoward and by-the-numbers, comparable to something like KOTOR but with no trademark "shocking twist" to up-end things a little and thus it leans on the party dynamic (where one's mileage will vary, can't say I care for it, especially these days).

You could try to be similarly reductive about Mass Effect but that had the Reaper plot point which is gradually built up and unveiled, on top of being Bioware's take on a space opera rather than humdrum fantasy with elves & dwarves fighting against "orcs".

theres a lot more of different political intrigues happening on DAO compared to ME, including the whole thing with Mages, blood magic, the dwarf questline as mentioned and the many different crimes commited by Gray wardens during the entire plotline, it asks difficult questions and at times its quite difficult to know whos wrong and whos right.

Theres barely such a thing happening with ME, its an epic save the world plot with not much intrigue happening.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

If you play as a dwarf noble there's a bit more political intrigue as one of your brothers falsely accuses you of killing the King and you get exiled and ultimately made a Gray Warden because of it. One of the better origin stories, they did dwarves justice in DAO in a way they never did again

Originally Dwarf Noble was supposed to have even more content than that, but they cut some of it to balance things with the other origins. Still one of the better ones tho.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Dragon Ass Origins had all the drama and intrigue of a corporate meeting for an Accounting company.

 

[Poseidon00]

If you play as a dwarf noble there's a bit more political intrigue as one of your brothers falsely accuses you of killing the King and you get exiled and ultimately made a Gray Warden because of it. One of the better origin stories, they did dwarves justice in DAO in a way they never did again

Originally Dwarf Noble was supposed to have even more content than that, but they cut some of it to balance things with the other origins. Still one of the better ones tho.

What, really? They cut it to make the other origins feel more adequate? Absolutely lame.

I liked my dwarf noble enough, because of the backstory and general lore around their society, that I had a much better time during my run than I otherwise would have.

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

All these list and no Disco Elysium.

The west mcfarlane.

 

[Ryan muller]

Dragon Ass Origins had all the drama and intrigue of a corporate meeting for an Accounting company.

Porky, you thought the "yes the murder case is related to a supernatural cult who wants to bring spiritual beings to the natural plane, which is totally a understandable and valid reason for a murder mistery, btw the murderer is the most obvious character in the world and at the end you can use X material to banish those extra material beings, because ofc you can" plot was better than DA:O how anything you say can be even valid?

 

[destinae vomitus]

If you play as a dwarf noble there's a bit more political intrigue as one of your brothSrs falsely accuses you of killing the King and you get exiled and ultimately made a Gray Warden because of it.

Well I played as a dwarf commoner, so you're allowed to call me a pleb.

it asks difficult questions and at times its quite difficult to know whos wrong and whos right.

I really did not see it that way, Bioware might've done away with the color coded clear-cut good/bad choices and tried to emphasize that by having you be a GRAY warden, but outside of some stuff like which dwarf you make king and how you deal with Loghain, to me it still came down to being either obviously morally correct or a quote unquote pragmatist (evil murderhobo more like). Are you really going to tell me that killing the mages for instance is reasonable let alone even worth considering?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

If you play as a dwarf noble there's a bit more political intrigue as one of your brothers falsely accuses you of killing the King and you get exiled and ultimately made a Gray Warden because of it. One of the better origin stories, they did dwarves justice in DAO in a way they never did again

Originally Dwarf Noble was supposed to have even more content than that, but they cut some of it to balance things with the other origins. Still one of the better ones tho.

What, really? They cut it to make the other origins feel more adequate? Absolutely lame.

I liked my dwarf noble enough, because of the backstory and general lore around their society, that I had a much better time during my run than I otherwise would have.

Yeah, it was my favorite origin as well.

Anyhow, from Roguey himself:

Sounds like LARPing to me. There is no good reason to side with Werewolves unless you really just want them for your army. You're not presented any reason at all to do it, so you're really just picking mass murder for shits and giggles, because you felt like it.

LARPing is when you do things that aren't acknowledged in-game. Role playing is when you role play a specific character concept, which is what you're supposed to be doing.

Nope. This wasn't "enslave nations with necromancy" grade bullshit we knew was never going to happen. This stuff was cut very late. It was planned out pretty heavily. The Orzammar questline is very blatantly a continuation of the events of the Dwarf Noble questline, and the Dwarf Noble makes perfect sense as a third contender. You were flagrantly set up for a revenge plot and even promo pictures reinforced that:


All the way into 2009 they were still selling the Dwarf Noble revenge route as part of the game. People looked forward to it. People were disappointed.

If it was a late cut, it must have been a painful one for them.

Mostly Obsidian/Troika/Interplay and Bioware (especially under EA) really. There are some pretty massive bugs in DAO and the patches were extremely half-assed. Instead of pumping out really shitty DLC and that Awakening expansion cruft, they should've just worked on adding in missing content (even if they had to bill it as DLC) and fixing the game's numerous issues. You need mods to play DAO, honestly. Just to fix the broken content and all the mechanics that don't work properly.

Patches don't pay the bills when it's "good enough." I didn't need any mods my first time through, which was also completely unpatched.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

All these list and no Disco Elysium.

The west mcfarlane.

Disco Elysium + Suzerain + The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante gang.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Dragon Ass Origins had all the drama and intrigue of a corporate meeting for an Accounting company.

Porky, you thought the "yes the murder case is related to a supernatural cult who wants to bring spiritual beings to the natural plane, which is totally a understandable and valid reason for a murder mistery, btw the murderer is the most obvious character in the world and at the end you can use X material to banish those extra material beings, because ofc you can" plot was better than DA:O how anything you say can be even valid?

It is better though. First of all, down to earth stuff (like say solving a murder) is always better than obnoxiously bland trodden trope like "oh, the evil demons are coming, we better go join the secret order that will fight them, hurr durr". And of course Shadowrun Returns was like 15 hours to complete, so even if it's plot is not that great, it doesn't grate on you the same way as an 80 hour long by the numbers sleep inducing shitfest that is Dragon Ass Origins. And no one is even saying SRR plot was good, we are just saying it's better than DA:O.

 

[Ryan muller]

Well I played as a dwarf commoner, so you're allowed to call me a pleb.

pleb.

Are you really going to tell me that killing the mages for instance is reasonable let alone even worth considering?

No, however you can really tell me that after all you saw specially with redclifffe and the awful effects that "mages going wrong" can have, you didnt even had to think before things like the dark ritual? or you just went "its totally ok to perform blood magic" specially, trusting in >>morrigan<< to do so?

The whole decision regarding the Landsmeet and most of the political plot really was hard to choose as well.

 

[Ryan muller]

First of all, down to earth stuff (like say solving a murder)

and then beating a cult that tried to summon ghost alien insects from another plane.

is always better than obnoxiously bland trodden trope like "oh, the evil demons are coming, we better go join the secret order that will fight them, hurr durr"

yes, you go against a secret order to prevent evil ghost aliens that are coming from another plane.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

First of all, down to earth stuff (like say solving a murder)

and then beating a cult that tried to summon ghost alien insects from another plane.

is always better than obnoxiously bland trodden trope like "oh, the evil demons are coming, we better go join the secret order that will fight them, hurr durr"

yes, you go against a secret order to prevent evil ghost aliens that are coming from another plane.

You are still not following. No one is saying SRR plot is great, but it's better than DA:O. So it's whacky with the cult, at least it makes it unpredictable. You are actually investigating shit, and if the outcome of your investigation is not exactly Oscar worthy, well, at least you had some fun getting there.

Which is a lot better than wading through banally predictable trope shit for 80+ hours that is the DA:O plot. Oooh, demons are evil... And archdemons are even more evil.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

it still came down to being either obviously morally correct or a quote unquote pragmatist (evil murderhobo more like). Are you really going to tell me that killing the mages for instance is reasonable let alone even worth considering?

Yes, it is. There aren't really "pure evil" choices because of the gradient of choices for your character's personality and worldviews, but also in lore justifications. This isn't future Dragon Age games where chantry is muh evil and mages are oppressed little flowers.

The most unnecessary "evil" thing you can do in this game is in the Elves quest, where some beta elf asks for help to get a girl then you ignore that, fuck her, and tell him what you did.

 

[Ryan muller]

You are still not following. No one is saying SRR plot is great, but it's better than DA:O. So it's whacky with the cult, at least it makes it unpredictable. You are actually investigating shit, and if the outcome of your investigation is not exactly Oscar worthy, well, at least you had some fun getting there.

im following, i just dont get why you think the outcome of a supposedly logical murder mistery being "alien summoning" is supposedly better or less offensive than a plot that delivers on what its trying to do since the very beggining.

SRR doesnt follow any rules of the detective novel genre, it presents the murderer quite late on the story, it doesnt have enough clues to make the conection before that and after it, it makes it so obvious you literally cant miss. its obvious, badly written, makes its premise into a joke and betrays every expectation the player might have out of it.

Its not only bad or "generic" its offensively awful to the point of the ridiculous. specially if (like me) you actually read mistery novels.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Which is a lot better than wading through banally predictable trope shit for 80+ hours that is the DA:O plot. Oooh, demons are evil... And archdemons are even more evil.

"Why does this fantasy setting have fantasy tropes?" Peak midwit moment.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

You are still not following. No one is saying SRR plot is great, but it's better than DA:O. So it's whacky with the cult, at least it makes it unpredictable. You are actually investigating shit, and if the outcome of your investigation is not exactly Oscar worthy, well, at least you had some fun getting there.

im following, i just dont get why you think the outcome of a supposedly logical murder mistery being "alien summoning" is supposedly better or less offensive than a plot that delivers on what its trying to do since the very beggining.

Because when you start investigating it, you won't automatically think that the murder is connected to an alien summoning.

SRR doesnt follow any rules of the detective novel genre, it presents the murderer quite late on the story, it doesnt have enough clues to make the conection before that and after it, it makes it so obvious you literally cant miss. its obvious, badly written, makes its premise into a joke and betrays every expectation the player might have out of it.

Its not only bad or "generic" its offensively awful to the point of the ridiculous. specially if (like me) you actually read mistery novels.

It's not about mystery novels, it's about the plot having enough mystery where you can't tell everything from the first minute playing the game. Which is the case for SRR, and not for DA:O.

Which is a lot better than wading through banally predictable trope shit for 80+ hours that is the DA:O plot. Oooh, demons are evil... And archdemons are even more evil.

"Why does this fantasy setting have fantasy tropes?" Peak midwit moment.

If you weren't so butthurt, you might realize that fantasy setting can easily avoid tropes, as shown by the GOOD fantasy games (e.g. PST, Witcher series, Arcanum, Betrayal at Krondor, MotB, and so on), and to go even further, if you really understand what fantasy means, it's supposed to be something exotic and different from the mundane world. When you have thousands of games/books/movies based on Tolkienesque fantasy, that stuff becomes so common and mundane, it is no longer really fantasy.

 

[Ryan muller]

Because when you start investigating it, you won't automatically think that the murder is connected to an alien summoning.

which is exactly why its offensive.

It's not about mystery novels, it's about the plot having enough mystery where you can't tell everything from the first minute playing the game. Which is the case for SRR, and not for DA:O.

mistery boxing doesnt necessarily make for good stories. not everything has to have "mistery" to be good, often enough having way too much buildup for awful outcomes is worse than delivering on exactly what you expect, hence why, you actually enjoy Baldurs gate 1, a very, very predictable game.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

When you have thousands of games/books/movies based on Tolkienesque fantasy, that stuff becomes so common and mundane, it is no longer really fantasy.

)))))))))

And for the record, unique doesn't equal good. DAO played it safe, but it provided decent worldbuilding for its purposes while also providing its own spin on things (from magic, to religion, to their portrayal of the typical fantasy races).

 

[behold_a_man]

It is better though. First of all, down to earth stuff (like say solving a murder) is always better than obnoxiously bland trodden trope like "oh, the evil demons are coming, we better go join the secret order that will fight them, hurr durr".

Kinda offtopic, but I can't think of any worse quest type in an RPG than solving a standard murder case, given that you usually need to fill quite a lot of body bags to solve it - especially if the quest is given to you by a known penniless lowlife promising tons of money.

Because when you start investigating it, you won't automatically think that the murder is connected to an alien summoning.

Neither did I think it was related to Hungarian irredentism - but if it turned out that Transylvania enjoyers were responsible, the plot wouldn't become any better. An impenetrable mystery is not necessarily a good mystery.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I started getting bored in the Derp Roads area and stopped playing shortly after that. It's been a long time so I can't remember exactly what turned me off. It didn't seem difficult to enjoy until it made it difficult.

 

[lvl 2 Blue Slime]

I always found the combat in DA:O too messy to be fun. Enemies and companions run all over the place, and you're always hitting your companions with friendly fire. It's just too stressful and uncontrollable.