If Bioware had not ressuciated the rpg genre...

[Ahzaruuk]

May you get thrice violated by an obese, unwashed fursuiter, Andhaira.

Isn't that all of them , though?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Wait.. turn based would be out if not for BioWare's games, none of which were turn based?

Don't confuse the boy with facts, Ausir!

 

[Andhaira]

Fallout was 1997. Diablo was 1997. Fallout 2 was 1998. Baldur's Gate was 1998. The CRPG genre wasn't revived from death by Baldur's Gate, if anything Fallout and Diablo prove that. Fallout did well enough to spawn a quickie sequel which was released before Baldur's Gate.

In fact, I would say the success of Baldur's Gate did more harm than good to the CRPG genre than it helped it. After all, the ME TOO CRPGs following Baldur's Gate were mostly shit, such as Gorasul and a few other European clones of the game. It also locked Interplay in to churning out copies of BG clones right up until it disappeared from active existence. Interplay used to make fairly diverse CRPGs, but they relaxed on their asses making Infinity Engine ports until they folded.

I see dead threads!!

But anyway, see the thing is fallout was nothing near tyhe commercial success of Baldurs gate. Not even close. thats mainly due to a couple of things:

Market penetration of DnD ruleset
Infinity Engine (its fucking pretty and you know it)
Its Fantasy. That is what sells, not post apoclyptic set in the realworld.

 

[bozia2012]

TBWP LOL

Also: don't drink beer mixed with cherry vodka

 

[Special_Can]

Fallout was 1997. Diablo was 1997. Fallout 2 was 1998. Baldur's Gate was 1998. The CRPG genre wasn't revived from death by Baldur's Gate, if anything Fallout and Diablo prove that. Fallout did well enough to spawn a quickie sequel which was released before Baldur's Gate.

In fact, I would say the success of Baldur's Gate did more harm than good to the CRPG genre than it helped it. After all, the ME TOO CRPGs following Baldur's Gate were mostly shit, such as Gorasul and a few other European clones of the game. It also locked Interplay in to churning out copies of BG clones right up until it disappeared from active existence. Interplay used to make fairly diverse CRPGs, but they relaxed on their asses making Infinity Engine ports until they folded.

I see dead threads!!

This thread isn't even a week old...oh, it's you Andhaira. This would be old to you.

 

[Gnidrologist]

 

[Ivy Mike]

Market penetration of DnD ruleset
Infinity Engine (its fucking pretty and you know it)
Its Fantasy. That is what sells, not post apoclyptic set in the realworld.

Arbitrary causes to the rescue!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Market penetration of DnD ruleset

Probably the only reason we're even mentioning Baldur's Gate is the D&D rules. The Infinity Engine was craptastic, and I doubt the game would have sold if it hadn't been a D&D product. There were a buttload of fundamental problems with Baldur's Gate ranging from pathfinding to multiplayer which would have resulted in a fairly quick march to the bargain bin had it not had the D&D label on the advertisements and box.

Its Fantasy. That is what sells, not post apoclyptic set in the realworld.

Again, that's primarily because of D&D. I seriously doubt the lack of orcs and goblins hurt KoTOR.

 

[Andhaira]

I disagree. The infinity engine, or rather the art was bloody fantastic, the presentation values were top notch. The music was better than nearly anything at the time (superseded by bg2 next year). Spell effects were gorgeous.

Combat was tons of fun while adhering to the ad&d ruleset; YES I would have preferred TB but even then RTwP was not bad at all.

Furthermore the EPIC story really appealed to the crpg starved market (fallout was hardly epic; not that that is bad at all since I prefer gritty stories and atmospphere, but there had not been a real epic since ultima 7 )

Also, KOTOR selled because:

1) Its STARWARS. 'nuff said.

2) StarWars is space FANTASY. Its not scifi at all.

3) KOTOR was the first ever SW rpg. It would have sold no matter what.

 

[DraQ]

The difference between normal and andhairous logic:

Normal logic:

"This game has some wicked backgrounds and sprites, they must have had some really talented artists on the team!"

Andhairous logic:

"This game has some wicked backgrounds and sprites, it's engine is surely HEAVAN!"

 

[Ratty]

I disagree. The infinity engine, or rather the art was bloody fantastic

So, was the art procedurally generated by the engine or something?

Combat was tons of fun

Fail.

 

[DraQ]

I disagree. The infinity engine, or rather the art was bloody fantastic

So, was the art procedurally generated by the engine or something?

Combat was tons of fun

Fail.

Win.

 

[MINIGUNWIELDER]

I'm inclined to think that the cRPG genre would be a hell of a lot better of it forgot D&D ever existed.

Yes.

Soon, PotBS will turn a fucking profit, and then.

Delta Green.

BRP engine.

X-Com esque gameplay.

Cooonsequencess.

Lovecraftian horrors.

Conspiracy theories gone horribly right.

 

[dagorkan]

What's Delta Green

 

[DemonKing]

In fact, I would say the success of Baldur's Gate did more harm than good to the CRPG genre than it helped it. It also locked Interplay in to churning out copies of BG clones right up until it disappeared from active existence. Interplay used to make fairly diverse CRPGs, but they relaxed on their asses making Infinity Engine ports until they folded.

Could it rather be that the only thing they were producing towards the end that actually sold was IE games? Apart from the FO games what exactly were they producing beforehand that was "diverse". Descent to Blundermountain? Stonekeep? Pretty basic hack n' slash fantasy games it seems...unless you really want to go way back.

Probably the only reason we're even mentioning Baldur's Gate is the D&D rules. The Infinity Engine was craptastic, and I doubt the game would have sold if it hadn't been a D&D product. There were a buttload of fundamental problems with Baldur's Gate ranging from pathfinding to multiplayer which would have resulted in a fairly quick march to the bargain bin had it not had the D&D label on the advertisements and box.

Sorry - have to disagree with you here:

The original BG box cover contained only a minor reference to D&D (in fact the Forgotten Realms was much more prominent than the tiny D&D logo). Check it out on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_gate

Compare it to Descent to Blundermountain where the D&D logo is much more prominent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_to_undermountain

The D&D logo/marketing does not guarentee sales. Plenty of D&D products have tanked.

BG succeeded because it was actually a decent game with nice graphics and S/FX that did a reasonable job of replicating the tabletop experience and the FR world, IMO. Sure the pathfinding wasn't great and the multiplayer not particularly groundbreaking, but unless you're really upset by the non-turn based combat, I don't see how anyone can claim it was "Craptastic".

It was certainly good enough to produce 5 full games and a number of expansions that were pretty successful...

 

[RK47]

it's a streamlined DnD that doesn't frustrate beginners like me. I am familiar with dice rolling concept but not really deep into THAC0 & Save throws, but that never really affected my enjoyment of Baldur's Gate I was taken in by the novelty and somewhat good 'narration' for that time. The NPC despite lacking in depth, still has some voices and personality to them (I is good, I hate u, is evil).

 

[Volourn]

"Probably the only reason we're even mentioning Baldur's Gate is the D&D rules. The Infinity Engine was craptastic, and I doubt the game would have sold if it hadn't been a D&D product. There were a buttload of fundamental problems with Baldur's Gate ranging from pathfinding to multiplayer which would have resulted in a fairly quick march to the bargain bin had it not had the D&D label on the advertisements and box. "

This must explain the fact that every D&D game has sold millions based solely on the D&D brand. Oops.... that's not a fact. In fact, plenty of games with the D&D logo have flat out bombed or sold poorly. *shrug*

So... question.. why was BG successful, and POR2 not? Or DTU? Or even Troika's precious TOEE? Or the later GB games? The list can go on... L0L

 

[Nutcracker]

This is a decent enough thread that could generate some good discussion.

So stop spamming it, faggots.

 

[MetalCraze]

it's the thread of Andhaira. it was designed as spam.

So... question.. why was BG successful, and POR2 not? Or DTU? Or even Troika's precious TOEE? Or the later GB games? The list can go on... L0L

because it was a generic real-time grinder in the most popular dnd setting with a simplified gameplay and was well debugged.

 

[Volourn]

"because it was a generic real-time grinder in the most popular dnd setting with a simplified gameplay and was well debugged."

1. Not all 'real time grinders' are successful. And, considering you could only get to level 7-8 in BG1; it wasn't that much of a generic real time grinder. Many RT games fail.

2. Many FR games fail. Just ask the latter GB games or DTU.

3. Compared to mnost games BG was anything *but* simplified. Even still, even if one agres that BG was 'simplified', many simplified games fail. Just ask POR2.

4. While I didn't experience much bugs with BG1, it surely had lots of bugs... espciially fi you listen to Codexers or other goofs... And, again, many 'well debugged' games do poorly. Just look at most all console games that fail since most console games are 'well debugged'.


So, again, I ask... why was BG1 *really* a success? And, none of these foolish trollish retarded one side 'I hate BIO and don't want to give them any credit' type ones..

Thanks. :D

 

[NiM82]

why was BG1 *really* a success?

The use of scantily clad fantasy women in the adverts?

 

[Volourn]

Yeah, cause every game that uses scantily clad females in adverts makes tons of moolah... and did BG do that anyways? I can't remember so far back. L0L Of course, you could be being sarcastic. R00fles!

 

[Andhaira]

Actually BG2 adverts did; they used a VERY busty Imoen! :D it was a fantastic poster btw.

 

[crufty]

What's Delta Green

http://www.delta-green.com/

It could be considered a more lethal form of CoC, but that would be too simplistic. It is (in my opinion) famous for its twisty, imaginative plots that will cruelly punish the unimaginative player with mind boggling insanity at best, TPK only slightly worse. Each game is a steady loss of SAN points for all but the most seasoned player.

http://www.delta-green.com/opint/anomolies/im_8250.html

And thats just for starters. good stuff.

 

[crufty]

I disagree. The infinity engine, or rather the art was bloody fantastic, the presentation values were top notch.

Not to begrudge Bioware, but the infinity engine's strongpoints were always story and combat. World interactivity and choice/consequence weren't really there. The choice/consequence thing I can see as that would be a very tall order, but I was always somewhat disappointed there was very little the environment could do. the artwork was just that, art. It was mood setting and skillfully crafted, but compared to Ultima VII, a step down.