I'm very upset about Div 2's combat

[AlaCarcuss]

OKAY BROS IN ED HARD DIFFICULTY IS JUST KILLER IT WAS TOO MUCH FOR ME

NORMAL IS ABOUT THE PERFECT BALANCE WITH FULL HEALTH AND MANA I CAN TAKE ALMOST ANY GUY MY LEVEL OR LOWER WITHOUT POTIONS OR DYING BUT A GROUP OF THEM I REALLY HAVE TO WORK THE SPELLS POTIONS CHARMING OR I GET RAPED

Try nightmare difficulty (introduced in the latest patch). It litterally took me an entire day's play to clear Stone's Fortress. Quite a few rage quits and now my quicksave finger is acheing like hell. Very satisfying experience though.

I wasn't sure how good 'Evade' would be later on, so that's good to know - I'm about to respec again soon so I can put some points into 'Lockpick' and go back and get all the chests I couldn't open (may not be worth it though, it's not like there's a shortage of loot).

Totally uncool bro. Maxing lockpick was the first I did in ED to the detriment of other abilities/spells because I can't stand leaving loot behind, plus I'm certain you missed out on the some of the best gear. Lockpick 5 is enough for all chests in ED, in FoV you'll need 7 so you have to train it to unlock it, but you can mindread someone for 1 free point.

Shit. Yeah, that would mean less points in combat skills. I wonder if the better gear from the locked chests would ballance things out (or even make things easier)??

 

[BLOBERT]

Try nightmare difficulty (introduced in the latest patch). It litterally took me an entire day's play to clear Stone's Fortress. Quite a few rage quits and now my quicksave finger is acheing like hell. Very satisfying experience though.

BRO YOU ARE TOO HARDCORE FOR ME I ABOUT HAD IT LOADING OVER AND OVER TO KILL SOME LAME ASS SKELETONS AND GOBLINS THAT WERE LEVEL SEVEN TO EEIGHT WHEN I WAS THE SAME

THAT SHIT WAS TAKING A HALF AN HOUR AN ENEMY LOADING AND RELOADING AND PULLING THEM AWAY ONE AT A TIME

SHIT NOW ON NORMAL I AM STILL GETTTING STOMPED HERE AND THERE AND SHIT IS DEFINITELY NO CAKEWALK I NEED TO CHARM A BRO THEN EITHER MAKE SPACE OR JUMP AROUND TILL EVERYONE IS ATTACKING THE CHARMED BRO AND GET THEM FROM BEHIND

OVERALL IT IS PRETTY SOLID I WAS NO FAN OF THE DEMO BUT I THANK EVERYONE HERE FOR THE DECENT FEEDBACK I AGREE WITH ALACARCUS BRO THAT THIS IS THE MOST FUN I HAVE HAD WITH A NEW RPG IN A WHILE

 

[Lesifoere]

It can balance things out. There's also some gear with +lockpick, but in any case I find that 4 points in the skill are okay until the battle tower. Cruising with some +wisdom gear right now, fuck yeah free bonus EXP.

@guy who had trouble with Laiken--eh, were you on highest difficulty or something? On normal difficulty I just firewalled the lot, jumped away, magic-missiled Razakel to death, done.

I've come to avoid magic, or magic systems, in rpgs over the course of a decade. Mostly because it seems to me that the usual arcane practitioner (as distinguished from other forms or systems of magic) becomes vastly overpowered in relation to the nexus of computer AI, homogenised challenge (i.e. same mode of encounter for rogue, archer, warrior etc) and that of player strategy and skill.

Mages in Div 2 aren't overpowered, though.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Try nightmare difficulty (introduced in the latest patch). It litterally took me an entire day's play to clear Stone's Fortress. Quite a few rage quits and now my quicksave finger is acheing like hell. Very satisfying experience though.

BRO YOU ARE TOO HARDCORE FOR ME I ABOUT HAD IT LOADING OVER AND OVER TO KILL SOME LAME ASS SKELETONS AND GOBLINS THAT WERE LEVEL SEVEN TO EEIGHT WHEN I WAS THE SAME

Haha, not hardcore - just very persistent.

Note too Blobert, that things get a bit easier after about level 12 or so. Not easy, just easier with more powerful skills and gear.

OVERALL IT IS PRETTY SOLID I WAS NO FAN OF THE DEMO BUT I THANK EVERYONE HERE FOR THE DECENT FEEDBACK I AGREE WITH ALACARCUS BRO THAT THIS IS THE MOST FUN I HAVE HAD WITH A NEW RPG IN A WHILE

Yeah, it's damn fun. I know we all hate the word, but it feels quite 'epic' too in places. After clearing Stone's and taking dragon form and flying to the high exit right at the top - tuning and looking back down at all the islands, with a bag full of loot and knowing not a living thing remained, was just such a moment of 'epicness' (and fucking relief).

Edit: There's a number of locked doors at the back of the final arena in Stone's - anyone know if these ever become accessable, or did I miss something?

 

[Aothan]

Mages in Div 2 aren't overpowered, though.

I could not rightly say, for now preferring melee and archery to magic in combat/action rpgs. Whether magic is overpowered or not would require a more complete understanding and experience of the game, not something I'm in any position to claim. That said, in the early stages it would seem magic has certain necessary advantages which underscore the non-class orientation of character development. Not that it matters all that much as long as any character design can be expected to at least be moderately functional.

on the subject of Lock Pick, it is a skill that my curiosity would perforce me to focus in more or less from the start. But I would have to say that for almost one third of all natural skill points in the early game it was not very useful whatsoever. Maybe this is metagaming -_- Given how the game randomly generates items it could be an exceptional skill for others.

having reallotted skills points with Hermosa's help (..ok, did anyone not choose Hermosa as their trainer ? Not to sound too nerd-like here, but --independent of aesthetic considerations-- she is probably one of the most well designed characters I've encountered in the rpg spectrum) I've specialised in Whirlwind and Dash with five points each, four points in Life Leech, four in Evade, three in Stunning Arrow, and one point each in Mana Leech and Battle Rage.

obviously a physical combatant by design, I'm looking forward to see how it develops in coming days.

 

[Lesifoere]

I had Hermosa and the other candidate fight both playthroughs. Since she always wins, well, it's always Hermosa I take with me to the battle tower. The slayer dude's a tosser, anyway. There's something about the way Larian makes their male faces--everyone looks like an insufferable douche (when they don't look like wrinkled prunes).

 

[AlaCarcuss]

I had Hermosa and the other candidate fight both playthroughs. Since she always wins, well, it's always Hermosa I take with me to the battle tower. The slayer dude's a tosser, anyway. There's something about the way Larian makes their male faces--everyone looks like an insufferable douche (when they don't look like wrinkled prunes).

One of the reasons I always play as a female (in any game that allows it). Developers (who are usually male), seem to put a bit more effort into their female character models than the male ones.

Well, that and the fact that, in a 3P game, if I'm going to be staring at a character's ass for a few score hours - it may as well be the digital representation of a female ass.

Ok, after trying out a few more skill combos, I've come to the following conclusion:

You need one good, spammable single target damage skill, one good AOE/nuke and as many points in your chosen mastery as possible. Also, any skill that increases the damage of your chosen skills is essential - in my case, WotBM. 4 or 5 points in Lockpick and your good to go. Your gear can handle the rest.

So at lvl 30 I have:

8 points in m.missile (the only spammable spell - good DPS at this level)
8 points in e.arrows (best nuke by far - 5 sec cooldown = almost spammable)
10 points in DW (best melee DPS)
5 points in WotBM (+30% magic damage for 45secs)
5 points in Lockpick (not missing out on anymore loot)
5 points in Mana Effeciency (essential for spamming spells)
1 point in Destruction (another 10% magic damage)
1 point in Hide (good in a tight spot)
1 point in Charge (all that's needed to close the gap on enemies)

A few other skills like regen etc. are naturally boosted by gear, I won't list those.

I'd like to invest in Evade, as per VoD's recommendation, but can't afford the points right now. I'd rather invest in as much damage (rather than damage mitigation) as I can and hope I can kill everything before protection becomes a problem.

A good bow, with good physical and magic damage does pretty good ranged DPS on it's own with no mana cost (for times when mana is running short). Also, with 10 points in DW, my main weapon does +19% damage and instead of suffering a penality on my offhand, it now does +10%.

No point in diversifying or spreading your points to thin. At low levels, most skills are useless.

 

[DraQ]

AND GET THEM FROM BEHIND

You, BRO, are a true codexian.

I've come to avoid magic, or magic systems, in rpgs over the course of a decade. Mostly because it seems to me that the usual arcane practitioner (as distinguished from other forms or systems of magic) becomes vastly overpowered in relation to the nexus of computer AI, homogenised challenge (i.e. same mode of encounter for rogue, archer, warrior etc) and that of player strategy and skill.

Agreed on homogenised challenge (we even had a thread about it in Workshop, I remember), but in quite a few games playing a mage is far more interesting due to more variety of actions you can perform, sometimes structured into some sort of cohesive magic system which tends to be more complex and interesting than what a melee combatant can do.

Morrowind is a good example.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Bros, except the skills that grant +X% damage or something, all abilities in Divinity 2 are like spells. Melee spells, bow spells, summoning spells etc. Where's the difference in spamming magic missile or activating life-leech+whirlwind and hack away leeching the HP of your enemy like crazy. It's all magic bros. Are pure mage won't be more powerful than a warrior it's just that they're using a different set of spells.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Bros, except the skills that grant +X% damage or something, all abilities in Divinity 2 are like spells. Melee spells, bow spells, summoning spells etc. Where's the difference in spamming magic missile or activating life-leech+whirlwind and hack away leeching the HP of your enemy like crazy. It's all magic bros. Are pure mage won't be more powerful than a warrior it's just that they're using a different set of spells.

Very true. It all really comes down to ranged vs melee, or in my case a combination of the two.

Skills and stats do play a part in playstyle however. For instance, I've been focusing on damage dealing over HP and damage mitigation. So things like Firewall didn't work out so well for me because it forced me to get up close and personal with too many mobs at a time, which inevitably lead to an early demise.

 

[Murk]

My melee dude healed faster than most DOTs and basic direct damages could harm him and focused primarily on singling out enemies and killing them quickly.

I restarted Ego Draconis as an archer/mage hybrid and going to try out ranged combat which, early on, is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY easier than ranged combat.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

I restarted Ego Draconis as an archer/mage hybrid and going to try out ranged combat which, early on, is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY easier than melee combat.

Fixed.

Yeah, that was my experience too with the different builds I tried out. Stright up melee was a bit boring as well and took longer to kill large goups.

I think I've done things the wrong way round now. One of the first things I did upon bringing down the barrier in the fijords, is clear Stone's fortress. I mentioned how tough it was, as when I began, I was about lvl 24 and all enemies were around 27. However, I gained almost 6 levels in there due to the massive amounts of XP from killing stacks of higher level mobs.

Now, running around the rest of the fijords at level 30, all the enemies I'm running into are like 8-9 levels below me - hardly even woth killing... I just swat them away like flies. Might have to go back to BV and take out some more fortresses.

 

[skyst]

I figure I'll chime in since I have been following this thread as I work through the game as well.

I am playing a 2h melee character with max Whirlwind, Life Leech, Death Blow and 2h Weapons and I am putting points into Bleed now. I also have 1 point into Rush Attack, Regenerate, Reflect, Evade and Mana Leech along with the (mandatory?) max Mind Read and Lock Pick.

I have been playing on Normal the entire time and have found the build incredibly simpl,e though effective. Rush Attack in, click the enemy to death. If there are multiple enemies, 15/15 Whirlwind is on a 1 second cooldown!

I just began FoV last night and have been enjoying it tons more than ED. Aleroth is full of interesting quests and dialogue, though most of the mind reads are dreadfully uninspired and feel forced this time around. At least there are neat quests like, "Return a deceased woman's earrings to her son to sell for food (booze) or, instead, give them to the Mage and damn her soul for eternity!"

I never thought I would give this game a chance when the initial reviews and feedback came out, but I'm glad I picked Div2 DKS it is really, really enjoyable. :

 

[Murk]

Oh shit haha, yeah I said ranged twice. Meant melee.

Regenerate and Evade should be maxed, imo, and yes mind read and lock pick are absolutely mandatory. In FoV you can max out mind read to be completely free (note to those who just started it, don't read minds until you dump some points and max it out, will save you a metric ass-ton of XP).

Skill points are thrown around like gold coins in FoV, too. Some quests seriously giving you 3 skill books upon completion.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Putting points in skills that save XP or give bonus XP is wasted effort.
Never putting points in Wisdom/Mindread: Finish the game (ED) at lvl 34, FoV(45)
Maxing Wisdom/Mindread: Finish the game (ED) at lvl 34, FoV(45)

You'll make a new level sooner due to Wisdom bonus, then the XP gain from killing specific mobs will drop significantly and a no-WIS char will close the gap again. Think of ze maths bros.

 

[Aothan]

that is good to hear about Flames of Vengeance; I'm not sure how the expansion works but if the opportunity to create a new character is present I would like to try a Ranger type character by then.

it can be said that all skills and spells are special abilities, depending on the level of analysis or abstraction (without veering into some fairly amorphous speculations here) schematic difference would be discernible in operational qualities. Where skills/abilities would typically be recognised to align more readily with certain class conceptions than others. For instance it is far more likely for a mage class to possess a ranged area effect attack skill (typically 'fireball'). Same with affective-type abilities such as charm, fear, blind, root etc

it is actually a bit of a shame there were so few Illusion specialised spells in the NWN 1 & 2 games to properly make an Illusion specialised wizard or sorcerer.

Divinity II's approach somewhat bypasses this difference by enabling access to any arrangement of skills, however in turn this leaves untouched core differences that when unmodified in relation to the environment can be expected to generally favour the prototypical strengths of conventional class designs devoid of class balance mechanisms. Again, as far as magic in Divinity II is concerned I could not definitively say, and as a single player game it really should not matter too much either way. I'm simply playing a melee orientated class out of preference and previous observations.

DraQ, speaking as someone who used to favour magic classes for the reasons you highlight I'm inclined to partially agree in theory and (haha) partially disagree in practice. Morrowind is a good example of so many fun concepts being neatly combined into an incredible game. At the same time, as is well known, after the first adventure it really falls to the player to delineate parameters or else have their character undergo apotheosis far too early in the game to ensure enjoyment from explorations, battles and such else.

I think in the sense you describe a mage that would principally make for an affective caster, one that somewhat plays like a single character rts in a rpg environment. Whether this would be strictly more complicated than a skillful sword practitioner, a Ranger or some other class would very much depend on the nature of the environment. Different aspects need to be regarded in their working wholes to be meaningfully qualified. Usually, given the AI and all else, over the natural course of development mages will naturally excel in almost all possible ways.

independent of game design environment mages are more intricate by virtue of their greater array of spells ('abilities'). Which should probably be the case, I think ideally higher level mages would have to be played more strategically (we might loosely distinguish from 'skillfully' in relation to the defining qualities of other classes ) and would have the means to affect both broader and more intricate developments or outcomes. That is the ideal, something like the Druid class I am fond of in persistent worlds for NWN 1 & 2, more naturally a mage class reaches a certain level whereafter they can decimate anything and all on the other side of the field with little challenge to their arcane 'prowess'.

one point I want to emphasise again is that I am not criticising magic per se, nor those who enjoy playing magic classes. Just the level of unchecked power which comes more readily to mages before the other classes cross over into a state of relative imbalance ( a game's meaningful level of challenge and thus, presumably, enjoyment).

anyway, the Dragon form in Divinity II enables a new level of playability in the game, I think I've focused too much in the Dragon Breath skill.

 

[skyst]

Putting points in skills that save XP or give bonus XP is wasted effort.
Never putting points in Wisdom/Mindread: Finish the game (ED) at lvl 34, FoV(45)
Maxing Wisdom/Mindread: Finish the game (ED) at lvl 34, FoV(45)

You'll make a new level sooner due to Wisdom bonus when the XP gain from killing specific mobs will drop significantly and a no-WIS char will close the gap again. Think of ze maths bros.

Shhh!

Maxing Mind Read (0xp loss per use) makes me

On the subject of invalidating my last post, anyone ever find something useful in a locked chest? Seems to be random trashy loot which, with the rare exception of a Divine gem, seems rather useless. With 7/7 Lock Picking, I kind of rage a little inside every time there is a locked door and I need to scrounge around for a key.

 

[Aothan]

no unfortunately, from all of the chests I have lock picked none have offered anything above standard quality items, maybe a +4 charm or two..otherwise nothing of particular worth.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

And the armor sets etc. were those things in unlocked chests?

 

[Lesifoere]

I've found pieces of item sets in locked chests.

 

[DraQ]

Where can you find the cuirass part of the stealth oriented set most of which you can find in Broken Valley?

Also, Polish version has some retarded object naming mishaps, but all around seems well translated.

 

[Murk]

Putting points in skills that save XP or give bonus XP is wasted effort.
Never putting points in Wisdom/Mindread: Finish the game (ED) at lvl 34, FoV(45)
Maxing Wisdom/Mindread: Finish the game (ED) at lvl 34, FoV(45)

You'll make a new level sooner due to Wisdom bonus, then the XP gain from killing specific mobs will drop significantly and a no-WIS char will close the gap again. Think of ze maths bros.

Having done some reading on XP effects and input from other people - I'd agree that wisdom is indeed useless until the late-game as some kind of min-max rape if you plan to not turn in quests until you have cleaned out enemies as at that point it'll give you a huge bonus to your quest turn in. I'd say to avoid wisdom all together -- Mindread however is useful I would argue, mostly so in FoV where you can easily go into major XP debt that would delay leveling up -- and given how plentiful skill points are in FoV Its not a bad idea to max it then just respec after you aren't using it very frequently.

 

[Lesifoere]

Shitcock. I'm close to rage-quitting again. You know one of those caves with the jumping puzzle and the fireballs? Fucking fuck.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Shitcock

Shitcock

Shitcock

Beautiful, that's going in my sig.

Actually, I quite enjoyed that jumping puzzle. T'was a nice changeup. Just remember to quicksave often. To avoid the fireballs, try not to land right in the middle of the platforms. I found it easier to take a step back before jumping again.

 

[Murk]

Kay, so spoiler moment. Anyone know how to get Dr. Needleman's password to his storage? The one chance you get to open it already passed but I'm still curious...

...is it related to doing Locke's quest with Keane?