Indie Friendly Development Tools

[forgotmypasswordagain]

If you think yourself as an creative person and would like to start programming to make the game of your dreams, then just stop. Right there. You don't need to learn programming, there are plenty of people out there who can do that for you. Get in contact with them and stop wasting your time.

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Otherwise, yeah, that would make sense.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWr8Ltt3Kng

 

[Elwro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWr8Ltt3Kng

:D Come on, all this could be made by a 10-year-old using BASIC, with no need for "Haxic, a programming language used for creating flash games".

And for interactive fiction, I think many people use Inform.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

that is merely an introduction to programming using a text adventure as the first game example.

 

[roll-a-die]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWr8Ltt3Kng

:D Come on, all this could be made by a 10-year-old using BASIC, with no need for "Haxic, a programming language used for creating flash games".

And for interactive fiction, I think many people use Inform.

Or TADS

 

[Krice]

Everyone who suggested Python: how many RPGs did you wrote with it?

 

[soggie]

Everyone who suggested Python: how many RPGs did you wrote with it?

Zero. I don't think it's wise to take up a serious project (writing an RPG is a pretty serious endeavor) using python, or any scripting language for that matter. For some reasons I am more comfortable for languages like C++ that gives me a finer grain of control over my code.

 

[Hory]

The only real problem of Python (as with other interpreted languages) is performance. It beats C++ in pretty much any other respect. There's no lack of control. I feel a lack of control when I take a look at C code stabbing my eyes with all the parentheses, stars and type declarations. While Python is a lot slower, it's certainly fast enough for the kind of RPGs that Codexers should like (turn based, isometric).

3D real-time collision detection and 3D field of vision calculation are the things that really need the high speeds. Incidentally, FOV is what I'm stuck at in the Python engine I'm working on, which has 2D graphics but a 3D world. If it were just something like X-Com, it wouldn't be a problem. You'd just have to cast rays to the few enemies on the map, only if they're in distance of a character, only if the character is oriented towards them and only after that character moves. My problem is that I'm going for a lot more interactivity, where every object could be movable or destroyable, at any second, so I'd need to cast hundreds more rays.

That's too much for Python, so I'm looking for alternative solutions. One would be to find smarter algorithms. Coincidentally, I stumbled upon Krice' Ultimate Line-of-Sight article thanks to this thread. It looks like a good idea, but exponentially more demanding in three dimensions. Another solution would be to write a fast Python module in C, for the routines which are called often. In the case of roguelikes, I think that there is such a library: Complete Roguelike Tutorial, using python+libtcod

 

[lefthandblack]

Zero. I don't think it's wise to take up a serious project (writing an RPG is a pretty serious endeavor) using python, or any scripting language for that matter. For some reasons I am more comfortable for languages like C++ that gives me a finer grain of control over my code.

I was using Panda until the UDK came out, I got as far as prototyping the dialog system before I switched. The Panda3d engine is written in C++, it just uses python as it's scripting language.

 

[soggie]

Zero. I don't think it's wise to take up a serious project (writing an RPG is a pretty serious endeavor) using python, or any scripting language for that matter. For some reasons I am more comfortable for languages like C++ that gives me a finer grain of control over my code.

I was using Panda until the UDK came out, I got as far as prototyping the dialog system before I switched. The Panda3d engine is written in C++, it just uses python as it's scripting language.

Allow me to rephrase. Writing a game engine in python is not something I am comfortable with. For a lower lever component like a game engine, C++ would be a better bet.

But for scripting game mechanics, a scripting language like Lua or python would be best as I don't need to struggle with limited language constructs, types and memory concerns, allowing me to focus completely on designing the game.

So for me, that's the difference. I've written a 3d engine before in C and if somebody asked me to rewrite it in python now I'd crack a septic tank over his skull can call him nuts. Stinking nuts if the tank is not empty.

 

[lefthandblack]

But for scripting game mechanics, a scripting language like Lua or python would be best as I don't need to struggle with limited language constructs, types and memory concerns, allowing me to focus completely on designing the game.

Yeah, I understand what you were saying. I was just clarifying that Panda was written in C++, so engine speed isn't an issue with it. For someone writing their own engine, C++ is the obvious choice. For someone who is using a prebuilt engine, one that uses python is a good choice because it is easier to learn.

 

[soggie]

But for scripting game mechanics, a scripting language like Lua or python would be best as I don't need to struggle with limited language constructs, types and memory concerns, allowing me to focus completely on designing the game.

Yeah, I understand what you were saying. I was just clarifying that Panda was written in C++, so engine speed isn't an issue with it. For someone writing their own engine, C++ is the obvious choice. For someone who is using a prebuilt engine, one that uses python is a good choice because it is easier to learn.

Wait. You switched to UDK? Any particular reason why? I switched FROM UDK to pygame (for prototyping) and am seriously evaluating C4 right now because UDK's licensing agreement is crazy. 25% royalty on all profits, if not mistaken. Or was it revenue?

 

[lefthandblack]

Wait. You switched to UDK? Any particular reason why? I switched FROM UDK to pygame (for prototyping) and am seriously evaluating C4 right now because UDK's licensing agreement is crazy. 25% royalty on all profits, if not mistaken. Or was it revenue?

I switched because I have alot of experience with UnrealEd, which is basically what the UDK is at it's core.

The other positives are:
- Excellent documentation.
- The drag and drop/schematic shader editor, which makes it much easier to compile your own shaders.
- It's an all in one package, with everything you need, aside from graphics and modeling software.
- The May release now includes Scaleform, so I can do all my gui's/menus in Flash.

The commercial license is $100 up front and 25% of all profit above $5000, which I don't find too bad considering that the only way to license the Unreal engine previously was to pony up $250,000. Plus, If I manage to actually finish my game, I'm not entirely certain that I won't just give the damn thing away. Getting paid for my hobby would be nice, but money is not my primary motivation.

 

[soggie]

Wait. You switched to UDK? Any particular reason why? I switched FROM UDK to pygame (for prototyping) and am seriously evaluating C4 right now because UDK's licensing agreement is crazy. 25% royalty on all profits, if not mistaken. Or was it revenue?

I switched because I have alot of experience with UnrealEd, which is basically what the UDK is at it's core.

The other positives are:
- Excellent documentation.
- The drag and drop/schematic shader editor, which makes it much easier to compile your own shaders.
- It's an all in one package, with everything you need, aside from graphics and modeling software.
- The May release now includes Scaleform, so I can do all my gui's/menus in Flash.

The commercial license is $100 up front and 25% of all profit above $5000, which I don't find too bad considering that the only way to license the Unreal engine previously was to pony up $250,000. Plus, If I manage to actually finish my game, I'm not entirely certain that I won't just give the damn thing away. Getting paid for my hobby would be nice, but money is not my primary motivation.

Interesting. Right now C4 seems to hold my vote pretty well... and if my art director gets his way, we might even go back to 2.5D engines though (written by yours truly).

Sigh, I guess this is the reality of game engines. There aint a perfect one. You just gotta bite the bullet, choose one and stick to it if you intend to release the game someday.

 

[roll-a-die]

Wait. You switched to UDK? Any particular reason why? I switched FROM UDK to pygame (for prototyping) and am seriously evaluating C4 right now because UDK's licensing agreement is crazy. 25% royalty on all profits, if not mistaken. Or was it revenue?

I switched because I have alot of experience with UnrealEd, which is basically what the UDK is at it's core.

The other positives are:
- Excellent documentation.
- The drag and drop/schematic shader editor, which makes it much easier to compile your own shaders.
- It's an all in one package, with everything you need, aside from graphics and modeling software.
- The May release now includes Scaleform, so I can do all my gui's/menus in Flash.

The commercial license is $100 up front and 25% of all profit above $5000, which I don't find too bad considering that the only way to license the Unreal engine previously was to pony up $250,000. Plus, If I manage to actually finish my game, I'm not entirely certain that I won't just give the damn thing away. Getting paid for my hobby would be nice, but money is not my primary motivation.

Don't forget that those royalties include the ad revenue on your site. So if you release your game for free but use google ads on your site, as soon as you make 5000 dollars you have to pay them 100 dollars and 25% of your ad revenue from then on.

That's the primary reason I switched to learning Unity. It may have changed since 6 months ago, but that's how it was explained to us by epic on the forums. Any money that can conceivably come about directly because you used UDK is considered profiting from it. Was how I think the rep put it.

As to programming languages, Ruby is just as capable as and indeed easier to learn than Python.

 

[Hory]

Ruby is faster than Python in some respects, and largely the same in terms of syntax but Python has much better documentation, more tutorials, books, support channels, so I don't see how Ruby would be easier for a beginner.

 

[roll-a-die]

Python has more syntax "issues"(whitespace and line ends). And is at a relative development standstill. Also, the only book you shall ever need for ruby is, http://ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/ it's for an older version, but, it still applies in a large amount, and the current(1.8 is the production version of ruby) version is quite easy to pirate. If you just want to pick up the syntax easily, http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/ .

 

[Krice]

The only real problem of Python (as with other interpreted languages) is performance. It beats C++ in pretty much any other respect.

I think it's easy for some people to bash C++ for being outdated as a programming language. But if you manage to learn how to deal with memory management it's actually very good language for people who just want to do some serious ass games and not care about the language syntax or other minor stuff like that.

Whatever language you choose doesn't make shit happen like magic. You have to learn programming, there is no way around it.

 

[ecliptic]

I am sad that I can't properly integrate external libraries with UDK. The editor is also rather amateurish in terms of GUI design and usability.

A lot of meat under the hood though.

 

[denizsi]

roll-a-die, what are you using Unity for?

 

[Fucking Quality Poster]

Maybe this should be given a sticky? I imagine it getting a bit bigger as time passes.

Anyways, I would like to recommend Soundsnap, an online community where people can upload and download sounds and music ranging all categories and genres. The asking fees are extremely fair and give you a lot of value for your money.

And best of all:

Are sounds on Soundsnap royalty-free?

Yes, absolutely. You can use them in any commercial or non-commercial application (movies, music, theater, video games etc. etc). However, your use has to comply with the Soundsnap license and our terms of use. Our terms make attribution optional- but recommended, and don't allow commercial distribution of the material if it is not transformed at all or included in a derivative work (film, other music). Therefore, you cannot sell CD's with these sounds or re-sell them online as they are- but only as a part of your music, film, website, installation etc.

 

[Zed]

^the freesound project is pretty handy as well.
http://www.freesound.org/

 

[Haba]

http://www.renpy.org/wiki/renpy/Home_Page

Ren'Py is a free and cross-platform visual novel engine that helps you use words, pictures, and sounds to tell stories with the computer. Its easy and efficient script language makes it possible for non-programmers to make visual novels, while its Python support allows for complex simulation games.

Can also be used to create simple RPG's or simulations like Alter Ego/Princess Maker.

 

[Zed]

If you're a non-programmer and want to make games, use Multimedia Fusion. There is no better software.

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

Download Visual C# Express and the CTP 4 of XNA and you got everything you need.