Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Indie Friendly Development Tools

Elzair

Cipher
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,254
RE: Panda3D

Does the Scene Editor qualify as a good editor? I have not used it much, so I am unsure.
 

soggie

Educated
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
688
Location
Tyr
After a month of heavy usage, I think PyGame is really a good place for beginners to start. Indie development wise, I'm curious to see how it holds up with a complete game engine (which I'm current testing out), but so far it had not disappointed me yet. 'cept for the typeless nature of python...
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
The ultimate indie friendly development tool would be a psychological or project design method to reduce the chances of someone giving up a project halfway and thus making of it vaporware, even if it means reducing the dependence over the original creator from the project moving on. GPL alone isn't enough for that because single-player open-source game projects rarely draw enough interest to take off.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
Important news, kids: Google will soon implement built-in support for Unity3D in Chrome and Android.

In case you fail to grasp the significance of this: Android is spreading like a wild fire. Some Tablet PC manufacturers are already starting to use Android and leave Windows behind. Android, or whatever new OS standards Google will introduce in future will be most likely be huge.

Now keep in mind how many game engines or software kits in a way similar to Unity there are out there: hundreds! And some of these are giants in their own scope. Consider GameBryo being in the industry for years and licensing their software to some of the biggest studios. Or even Torque Engine which is probably at the forefront of indies and the choice of technology of our grandpa VD. Now consider Google not giving a flying fuck about any of these and going straight for Unity3D as their next choice of a new interactive API next to Flash, not to mention they are already working to provide some level of compatibility between the two, not to mention Flash wrappers for Unity3D. This alone should tell you something about Unity3D.

In short, you can't go wrong with Unity. It's easy to learn and to start doing something and getting results right away and it will only do you good in the long run.
 

getter77

Augur
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
861
Location
GA, USA
Also, the Unity3D 3 release FINALLY happened the other day, site and such updated, meaty change lists, etc.

Unity really SHOULD get rather prominent from here on out, especially once they get some showcase games they can tout for this latest incarnation.
 

Flatlander

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
242
Location
Paradise Valley
I'm still not convinced that Unity is the way to go for making an RPG. Maybe an JRPG or something similar but I don't see what it brings to the table for more complex games.

It's great for a lots of other genres but a guy running around in armour in bloomy landscape is still far away from the real requirements of an RPG.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
Ie. "I don't know what the hell I am talking about". I don't see how you associate JRPGs or primitive H&S in particular to Unity. The same can be said about just about anything.
 

Naked Ninja

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
1,664
Location
South Africa
Unity 3 does look nice, I was looking at it when it came out.

The gui components in Unity are a bit primitive, being able to run flash inside Unity would be good, a full suite of official gui components would be better.

Also, support for interpreted scripts. Most modern RPG engines make use of a scripting language on top of the compiled code. Simply added Lua bindings would be good. I rely on TorqueScripts ability to interpret script on the fly and some poking around seemed to indicate that it would take some effort to get interpreted scripts into Unity, effort I didn't feel like putting in.

The bundled occlusion culling/lightmap generator/tree creator look pretty sweet, the idea of porting to Unity flitted through my mind before I realised that the time it would take to add in the bits it is missing (that I need) would outweigh the benefit of porting.

I'll re-evaluate it when I finish SoW, it's definitely becoming more attractive with the release of U3. The lack of source code is STILL a negative (before anyone tries to argue that you don't need source code, check the bug fix list for Unity 3. It's long. If you ran into any of those issues when using Unity 2 you were essentially boned until and if the devs fixed it. With source code and knowledge, anything is fixable on your own. Source code access is very valuable.).
 

Naked Ninja

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
1,664
Location
South Africa
Tested Unity a little bit more thoroughly (used it for a bit of prototyping instead of just browsing features), for a moment there I thought I was wrong, the editor is pretty damn sweet. Then I hit an inexplicable crash bug.

Ah well, it was fun to stuff around with a different genre of game. The result of a few days playing about is here, don't expect much, it's quite arb, you just fly about and can hop through the jumpgate between 2 levels (spacebar for speed boost, left mouse to change views). The version with docking in the space station didn't make it up, as it has that bug.

I have decided I would recommend Unity over Torque to non-programmers though.
 

Elzair

Cipher
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,254
It looks like Portalarium is already boned. Poor LB! When will he learn that he needs to make games and not tech demos.
 

soggie

Educated
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
688
Location
Tyr
Naked Ninja said:
Tested Unity a little bit more thoroughly (used it for a bit of prototyping instead of just browsing features), for a moment there I thought I was wrong, the editor is pretty damn sweet. Then I hit an inexplicable crash bug.

Ah well, it was fun to stuff around with a different genre of game. The result of a few days playing about is here, don't expect much, it's quite arb, you just fly about and can hop through the jumpgate between 2 levels (spacebar for speed boost, left mouse to change views). The version with docking in the space station didn't make it up, as it has that bug.

I have decided I would recommend Unity over Torque to non-programmers though.

I crossed off U3D from my list early on due to the same reasons too. Source code access is pretty crucial especially when it comes to debugging.

In fact, it's one of my arguments with denizi in my own thread.
 

Naked Ninja

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
1,664
Location
South Africa
Yep, I saw that discussion with Dennis, one of the reasons I posted this link here, I thought it would be helpful to illustrate the point with a working example, since he's been crusading for Unity fairly strongly. ;)

Also posted my thoughts on Google-Unity integration on that blog post. Dennis is marvelously over-enthusiastic, it's not because Google thinks Unity is the bestest 3D engine ever, it's to help them compete with Apple in the smartphone market, a space where Unity is about your best option, IMO. That's the same reason Ossian is using Unity for their iPhone RPG.

I'd hoped I was wrong, that the engine would just be SO well made that I'd never regret lack of source access, but that's not realistic. Theorycrafting about game dev isn't the same as getting your hands dirty developing something, it's only once you start working with it that you hit these walls. It's worth mentioning that now, about a week later, my threads asking for help in the forums remain unanswered, off the main pages and out of sight. Admittedly, maybe I'd have gotten some help over time if I'd tried submitting a bug report via the editor, but it's a good example of the kind of experience you'd have, having to wait for help to fix bugs in your own project.
 

soggie

Educated
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
688
Location
Tyr
Naked Ninja said:
Yep, I saw that discussion with Dennis, one of the reasons I posted this link here, I thought it would be helpful to illustrate the point with a working example, since he's been crusading for Unity fairly strongly. ;)

Also posted my thoughts on Google-Unity integration on that blog post. Dennis is marvelously over-enthusiastic, it's not because Google thinks Unity is the bestest 3D engine ever, it's to help them compete with Apple in the smartphone market, a space where Unity is about your best option, IMO. That's the same reason Ossian is using Unity for their iPhone RPG.

I'd hoped I was wrong, that the engine would just be SO well made that I'd never regret lack of source access, but that's not realistic. Theorycrafting about game dev isn't the same as getting your hands dirty developing something, it's only once you start working with it that you hit these walls. It's worth mentioning that now, about a week later, my threads asking for help in the forums remain unanswered, off the main pages and out of sight. Admittedly, maybe I'd have gotten some help over time if I'd tried submitting a bug report via the editor, but it's a good example of the kind of experience you'd have, having to wait for help to fix bugs in your own project.

Well props for actually taking time to delve into it (and then taking more time to write a lengthy and detailed blog post about it), thus saving much of my own time.

To be fair though, Ogre3D's community aren't really that enthusiastic either; same goes to Irrlicht forums. Truth is, in most of these forums, getting an answer depends largely on the question you asked. In my case, I asked if Ogre could do the kind of deferred rendering that I wanted to do. Nobody had tried that before, and thus naturally there weren't many replies other than suggestions that led to nowhere. In your case, it's probably the same too.

Which brings me back to the original point - having a cool editor that does 90% of the work for you is real tempting. But when it comes to coding games that does not conform to the norm (i.e. 90% of indie CRPGs), it's better off to get a library that you can at least support yourself (aka have source code access). And not to mention the ever helpful debug traces.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
As the protecter saint of them Unities, I declare you to be a friend of the Unities by virtue of your fair perspective. So let it be known!

Nothing I can disagree with. It takes a little time and familiarity to work around Unity's bugs quirks and once there, it's much easier to go outside "adventure games and anything not too complex" without your mind being sucked by powers behind the curtains. And I've said it before: if you know your programming well and aren't too intimated by content creation pipeline for later on, it's hard to suggest Unity.

They do provide the source code to some people, though.

That EA deal worries me greatly. v3 has already axed a great deal of features that geared towards simplicity and older hardware compatibility. Unity might just be geared towards a new flux of nextgenitis.
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

Self-Ejected
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
6,547
Location
Idiocracy
soggie said:
Source code access is pretty crucial especially when it comes to debugging.

Having source is a must, if you plan to sell your games. When a customer finds a bug, they get very upset if it is not fixed straight away.

If the bug is in the 3D engine and you don't have the source, you'll have to refund their money straight away and even then, they'll tell their friends your game doesn't work, which won't be good for your reputation.




As for my tools suggestion:

C4 Engine:
Flow graphs, useful tools for making games, lots of help in the wiki and on the forums, there is a private section with community made tools and you get full source which is C++.

3D Coat:
This is for voxel sculpting and painting. It is relatively cheap (they have an unemployed and student price) and it is easier to learn and use than traditional 3D modelers. It also has auto-retopo, which creates low poly versions of your voxel sculpt, which saves a lot of time.
 

mouser

Novice
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
12
UDK licensing

A small note to the UDK licensing description in the first post of this thread:

The royalties are 25% of REVENUE, not profit.

This means if it costs you $20,000 to develop a game (using easy numbers), and you garner $15,000 in sales, you owe $2,500 in royalties [0% on the first $5,000 and 25% of the next $10,000], increasing your loss from $5,000 to $7,500.
 

getter77

Augur
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
861
Location
GA, USA
http://www.stonetrip.com/ I'm guessing this Shiva3D thing runs pretty much parallel to Unity in terms of the lot of it then? I couldn't spot any Source access with it either...

http://libcinder.org/ How's this Cinder thing as far as a C++ library goes relative to game doings? It reads like it has some meat to it, but I can't find anything on it game-wise at a glance.
 

ecliptic

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
915
Re: UDK licensing

mouser said:
A small note to the UDK licensing description in the first post of this thread:

The royalties are 25% of REVENUE, not profit.

This means if it costs you $20,000 to develop a game (using easy numbers), and you garner $15,000 in sales, you owe $2,500 in royalties [0% on the first $5,000 and 25% of the next $10,000], increasing your loss from $5,000 to $7,500.

99% of people using won't complete their game.

99.999% of using it won't make >= $20k off of their magnum opus.
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

Self-Ejected
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
6,547
Location
Idiocracy
Re: UDK licensing

ecliptic,
If you are going to think that way, then why bother doing anything game related at all?
 

ecliptic

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
915
For the enjoyment of the act itself.

I wasn't saying that to be discouraging, I was just saying that to avoid discouraging someone from looking at the UDK for solely profit driven reasons. The fact is, most people won't be making a twenty-large profit from this sort of thing, and really, it shouldn't be a factor if the platform is otherwise enticing.

Plus, if you develop sufficient skills with it, I have no doubt you could without too much difficulty land related employment.
 

Jack Swift

Novice
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
5
I'm too lazy to upgrade from GM:
http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/
(Frankly, I don't need to, either. You can make some serious money with this.)

Using easy to learn drag-and-drop actions, you can create professional looking games within very little time. You can make games with backgrounds, animated graphics, music and sound effects, and even 3D games! And when you've become more experienced, there is a built-in programming language, which gives you the full flexibility of creating games with Game Maker. What is best, is the fact that Game Maker can be used free of charge.

You can do anything you want with the games you produce, you can even sell them! Also, if you register your copy of Game Maker, you can unlock extra functions, which extend the capabilities of the program. Game Maker comes preloaded with a collection of freeware images and sounds to get you started.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom