Game News inXile reveal Wasteland 3's party system

[Doktor Best]

I liked icewind dale better than Bg's too,

Yeah I also like hitting my cock into windowsill rather than sleeping with women./sarcasm? So that makes 3 of Us. You, mondblut and me.

Bg's might be more interesting to people who like to read R. A. Salvatore and other Dungeons and Dragons novels (obviously there is a large audience for these, I am always shocked at their popularity), but for me Icerwind dale felt more like playing the type of dungeons and dragons I played with friends using Pen and Paper. This may not make sense intuitively since Bg's seems to be more 'story based', but the emergent stories created by my mind while carefully planning and rolling up an entire party of adventurers and overseeing their progression as they leveled up was much more enjoyable and felt closer to Pen and Paper D&D than BG did.

The totality of the environment, artwork, music and party creation mechanics in IWD actually created a better and more enjoyable experience for me. I guess it goes back to 'What is a RPG'? It feels like to me that maybe older people like myself related to D&D as a rule based, tactical wargame with small bits of story to guide the game along, while younger people seem to view RPG's as a visual adventure novel with stats and player characters existing secondarily to the story being told. I don't know, but Icewind Dale felt like a deeper experience to me than BG.

I know what youre getting at but i am not sure this distinction is valid in the case of Baldurs Gate / Icewind Dale since they both rely on the very same rulesystem.

The thing is, on a D&D adventure, you play with friends. They craft their own characters with their own stats and their own backstory and they are the ones acting out their character and interacting with eachother and with you. In a Crpg you play alone, so in order to invoke an in-character party interaction people came up with the idea to let the game take over that part, otherwise it would simply be you playing 6 characters at the same time.

In the end it all boils down how much you care about filling out an artificial role in an rpg, be it pen and paper or not. There were people back then paying alot of attention to character motivation and party dialogue (my group certainly was and we started back then when Adnd 2nd ruleset was a thing) and there were people entirely focusing on the dungeoncrawling part, and both really is fine if you ask me. Just stop calling the other experience inferior, its just not tailored to you.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Retarded level scaling, where simple bandits pose a larger threat than a ancient dragon on a higher level.

Wizardry 8 had annoying level scaling, too. That would been fixed as a part of hypothetical introduction of proper RPG systems, though.

Boring repetitive dungeons with the same art and undead.

That's the staple of the genre. I'd take 600 hours of samey content over 6 hours of uniqwe and speshul any day.

Still a facelift if you compare it to Wizardry 6

Shity dialogs, that do not change even if you marry the high queen, making you effectively a high king.

Who cares? Dialogues beyond infodumps and quest dispersal are useless fluff anyway. All great RPGs did just fine with scantily a bunch of lines.

Oh yeah, so you are OK with being dragon born? And using dragon shouts (FFS)?
If youd take 600 hours of doing same shit, just watch paint dry same and have the same satisfaction and you can imagine anything. And I mean anything!

The thing is, on a D&D adventure, you play with friends. They craft their own characters with their own stats and their own backstory and they are the ones acting out their character and interacting with eachother and with you. In a Crpg you play alone, so in order to invoke an in-character party interaction people came up with the idea to let the game take over that part, otherwise it would simply be you playing 6 characters at the same time.

In the end it all boils down to how good are you at imagining that your cardboard is alive and your numbers are it's personality.

 

[mondblut]

Oh yeah, so you are OK with being dragon born?

I don't know nor care what "being dragon born" means. How many plusses to THAC0 and damage does it give, if any? Otherwise, not interested.

And using dragon shouts (FFS)?

Ditto.

If youd take 600 hours of doing same shit, just watch paint dry same and have the same satisfaction and you can imagine anything. And I mean anything!

As adviced by the kind of people who like to endure through the same shitty game 10 times just to click on a different hyperlink in a couple of instances

In the end it all boils down to how good are you at imagining that your cardboard is alive and your numbers are it's personality.

 

[l3loodAngel]

If youd take 600 hours of doing same shit, just watch paint dry same and have the same satisfaction and you can imagine anything. And I mean anything!

As adviced by the kind of people who like to endure through the same shitty game 10 times just to click on a different hyperlink in a couple of instances

In the end it all boils down to how good are you at imagining that your cardboard is alive and your numbers are it's personality.

I am not sure those people exists outside of your head. I won't endure shit games, that's why I dropped POE, WL2 and DOS in the first quarter of the game... But people who like to hit windowsill with their cocks for 600 hrs do exist.

What the cardboard part is not true? If you are more immersed with cardboard it pretty much means that youre giving him personality.

 

[mondblut]

I am not sure those people exists outside of your head. I won't endure shit games,

You wish.

What the cardboard part is not true? If you are more immersed with cardboard it pretty much means that youre giving him personality.

Immersing with cardboard is a bad idea, it gets wet and falls apart.

 

[l3loodAngel]

What the cardboard part is not true? If you are more immersed with cardboard it pretty much means that youre giving him personality.

Immersing with cardboard is a bad idea, it gets wet and falls apart.

From semen or if you take it for a walk?

 

[mondblut]

From semen or if you take it for a walk?

From whatever you immerse your cardboard into.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Me? I like to play with Gann-of-Dreams in party, rather than have dreams of someone named gann...

 

[Kev Inkline]

I guess it goes back to 'What is a RPG'? It feels like to me that maybe older people like myself related to D&D as a rule based, tactical wargame with small bits of story to guide the game along, while younger people seem to view RPG's as a visual adventure novel with stats and player characters existing secondarily to the story being told.

I'll derail here a bit, but I think your statement about generational divide between gamers is a bit of a stretch - as a counterexample, in my 27+ years of playing pnp rpgs witht the same people, the emphasis of our gaming sessions have (d)evolved from battle oriented intense groupings to informal storytelling gatherings where dice are seldom rolled, and the story's been given more emphasis. However, this does not necessarily reflect what sort of cRPGS I prefer. Naturally, the frequency of the sessions has gone down considerably due to marriages, kids, divorces and whatnot, and as result and because of dementia probably no one really remembers the rules. But it's still good fun.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

You're supposed to create characters from your own concepts, and then see how they perform, making modifications later as necessary. The idea that all players are driven to optimize their builds immediately is ridiculous MMORPG talk and only makes sense from a MMORPG perspective of constant social competition. You're not competing against anyone in a single player game, so your choices should reflect what you think is cool, fun, etc.

Yep, lots of truth in this. But it's really an approach thing. If the game allows party creation and you aren't obsessive about having the best builds, etc., and just focus on having fun, the experience is different (and IMO, better). Then again, I'm also fine with the idea of having certain content cut off if I don't have the "right" skill for the job, and also being okay with not every base being covered by my party. I think for a lot of modern gamers that second thing is a bit of a problem. If it balances out in the end (i.e. my Thief with a high lockpicking skill can still get something nice out of a chest, even though we had to leave the forcefield locked area behind because my Mage's Dispel skill isn't great), then that's a good thing, IMO. Ideally you'd want to be rewarded in some way for your skill investment and focus, yet another player can focus differently and get other paths based on what their skill and development looks like. I think the most boring approach is when you literally have every skill mastered by the combination of your party. Then there are no real choices being made when developing your character skills.