Interview inXile's Torment successor officially announced on RPS, will use Monte Cook's Numenera setting

[Haba]

Yeah. Most of our "hard-core cRPG" fans here don't play games any more - new or old. They don't care about games, they care about the idea of a game. The idea of a perfect hard-core old school cRPG. And naturally no-one can ever make that game, hence everything is shit.

To be fair... Everything *is* shit.

It is true. Everything is shit and nothing is fun anymore. Unlike in the old days.

 

[himmy]

There will be some other surprise talent that I’ll announce later

Read: Mark Morgan.

 

[Infinitron]

There will be some other surprise talent that I’ll announce later

Read: Mark Morgan.

Hmm, what does Brother None have to say about this?

Considering he's already doing Wasteland 2, I'm surprised he's not announced already.

 

[Brother None]

Only thing I got to say is

 

[Infinitron]

Oh FFS. That shouldn't even be a secret. He's already working for inXile!

 

[Wizfall]

I just hope it will be in isometic 2D like the original.
I'm not interested to pledge for another 3D cRPG.

 

[Ulminati]

There will be some other surprise talent that I’ll announce later

More like "Gay romance option confirmed!" to appease the wallets of biodrones

 

[Roguey]

2- Roguey I don't know Monte Cook: why is he a hack?

He believes putting in purposely-bad options you're not supposed to take is awesome and "rewards" system mastery:

Magic also has a concept of "Timmy cards." These are cards that look cool, but aren't actually that great in the game. The purpose of such cards is to reward people for really mastering the game, and making players feel smart when they've figured out that one card is better than the other. While D&D doesn't exactly do that, it is true that certain game choices are deliberately better than others.

Toughness, for example, has its uses, but in most cases it's not the best choice of feat. If you can use martial weapons, a longsword is better than many other one-handed weapons. And so on -- there are many other, far more intricate examples. (Arguably, this kind of thing has always existed in D&D. Mostly, we just made sure that we didn't design it away -- we wanted to reward mastery of the game.)

He's also a spellcaster supremacist.

 

[Infinitron]

He's the anti-Sawyer!

Captain Shrek Prepare your wallet!

 

[Lancehead]

I was going to say exactly that (anti-Sawyer).

That "system mastery" is a shit approach.

 

[evdk]

Ah, Monte

 

[Grunker]

He's the anti-Sawyer!

Yep, he's also a brilliant motherfucker with a resume of systems incredibly long, and with some of the very best systems and game system books ever written on his resume. See, Roguey like's to argue like what people say is the objective truth. So when Sawyer says "I will make the best system ever", it must be true. The fact is though, that Sawyer has shit to show us, while Cook has produced both fantastic adventures, fantastic settings and fantastic systems.

Cook is a hack insofar that Roguey disagrees with his philosophy, but if I were to pick between to designers, I would forever let their actual achievements speak. Here, Cook has much to show, while Sawyer will have to wait until P:E finishes to prove whether or not he actually even knows what he is talking about.

 

[Captain Shrek]

He's the anti-Sawyer!

Captain Shrek Prepare your wallet!

Not being overtly snobbish, but arguably I (And anyone else) need details on this for making comments. Haven’t followed this project too much. I have heart problems.

 

[Roguey]

Yep, he's also a brilliant motherfucker with a resume of systems incredibly long, and with some of the very best systems and game system books ever written on his resume. See, Roguey like's to argue like what people say is the objective truth. So when Sawyer says "I will make the best system ever", it must be true. The fact is though, that Sawyer has shit to show us, while Cook has produced both fantastic adventures, fantastic settings and fantastic systems.

Cook is a hack insofar that Roguey disagrees with his philosophy, but if I were to pick between to designers, I would forever let their actual achievements speak. Here, Cook has much to show, while Sawyer will have to wait until P:E finishes to prove whether or not he actually even knows what he is talking about.

Third edition is a shit system and I hate it so much.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[evdk]

Third edition is a shit system and I hate it so much.

Surprise level: 0%
Still, it significantly outperformed all the later WotC offerings, to such a degree that a spiritual successor to the 3E ruleset became a valid competition to the real thing.

 

[Grunker]

Yep, he's also a brilliant motherfucker with a resume of systems incredibly long, and with some of the very best systems and game system books ever written on his resume. See, Roguey like's to argue like what people say is the objective truth. So when Sawyer says "I will make the best system ever", it must be true. The fact is though, that Sawyer has shit to show us, while Cook has produced both fantastic adventures, fantastic settings and fantastic systems.

Cook is a hack insofar that Roguey disagrees with his philosophy, but if I were to pick between to designers, I would forever let their actual achievements speak. Here, Cook has much to show, while Sawyer will have to wait until P:E finishes to prove whether or not he actually even knows what he is talking about.

Third edition is a shit system and I hate it so much.

quod erat demonstrandum

Third edition is a shit system and I hate it so much.

Surprise level: 0%
Still, it significantly outperformed all the later WotC offerings, to such a degree that a spiritual successor to the 3E ruleset became a valid competition to the real thing.

Again, you don't understand Roguey's point. Performance and experience doesn't matter. What works and what doesn't work is irrelevant. What is relevant is what hypothetical arguments makes sense for Rogeuy, and what they mean for the real world.

 

[St. Toxic]

He believes putting in purposely-bad options you're not supposed to take is awesome and "rewards" system mastery.

Oh, so he's a good systems designer huh? What a hack indeed.

 

[Snerf]

Shattered Galaxy was also actually a really great game that just never saw enough widespread attention back in the day. Was a ton of a fun. Good niche multiplayer game with bit of actual learning curve and metagame. I know Kevin is more known for MotB around here, but SG was quality stuff.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Again, you don't understand Roguey's point. Performance and experience doesn't matter. What works and what doesn't work is irrelevant. What is relevant is what hypothetical arguments makes sense for Rogeuy, and what they mean for the real world.

I don't think this is a fair characterization. I think 3E is a huge improvement over AD&D, but what Roguey identifies as flaws are real; there are plenty of sub-par options which can only be known to be sub-par through mastery of the system.

Now whether these actually are problems really comes down to personal taste, so calling him a hack is unwarranted. But that doesn't change the fact that they are real features of the system.

 

[MRY]

I do help they keep the simple character-building and anti-power-gaming aspects of the design.

 

[tuluse]

Yep, he's also a brilliant motherfucker with a resume of systems incredibly long, and with some of the very best systems and game system books ever written on his resume. See, Roguey like's to argue like what people say is the objective truth. So when Sawyer says "I will make the best system ever", it must be true. The fact is though, that Sawyer has shit to show us, while Cook has produced both fantastic adventures, fantastic settings and fantastic systems.

Cook is a hack insofar that Roguey disagrees with his philosophy, but if I were to pick between to designers, I would forever let their actual achievements speak. Here, Cook has much to show, while Sawyer will have to wait until P:E finishes to prove whether or not he actually even knows what he is talking about.

Third edition is a shit system and I hate it so much.

Do you think it is more, less, or equal shit to previous editions?

 

[Harold]

I like what I'm hearing from inXile with two caveats:

1. The fact that it's going to be called Torment because thematic bla bla is bullshit. Be honest Fargo, you're calling it that because you were sly enough to get the rights for that name and it has great recognition. Don't tell me you're gonna make a plethora of games exploring numerous facets of the idea of torment in different ways because I will never believe you. You're not going to reinvent the greek tragedy in a PC game medium and, if you try, it will certainly end up being silly after a second game. Then again, The Walking Dead is considered by many to have the best story evah, so what do I knoiw?

2. What did Colin McComb actually design/write on PST? Granted, my memory is quite fuzzy on this, but isn't he the guy largely responsible for Curst, i.e. - the worst written & designed area in the whole game? Roguey , if in between arguing with all these fellows you have the time to dig up some links to prove me right or wrong I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what he did, but Curst, and most of the end game area, apparently were rushed like hell. At least this is the official excuse if I remember correctly.

 

[Lancehead]

There's an interview by Brother None which has some details: http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=55

The areas I did included Smoldering Corpse bar and its attendant quests and dialogues, Many-As-One and the Warrens of Thought, the Great Foundry, some of the Lower Ward (John Deiley did most of the other parts), Lothar and the Bones of the Night (though I don’t remember if I did Mantuok), Many-As-One, Curst, Under Curst (and certain dialogue nodes with Vhailor), Carceri. Trias the Betrayer, and Fhjull Forked-Tongue. I helped smooth out certain kinks in the flow of the game, and suggested some of the chaos that might ensue when Curst shifted into Carceri and helped design the mechanic that would allow the player to return the city to the Outlands. I think I did some other stuff too.