Is BioWare the new Bethesda?

[The Dude]

I recently bought a new comp and redownloaded my copy of DA:O that I *gasp* bought ages ago but never could get through. Then I checked if there might have been some decent mods released...

Beth games modding scene is like swimming in the sewers but finding a piece of something shiny and valuable once in a while making it almost worth it.

DA:O modding scene seemed more like being forcefully dumped into a septic tank, totally surrounded by nothing but shit.

If the mentalities of the companies in question are in any way reflected by what their modding communities puts out then Bioware is far, far beyond any kind of derp Beth has any hope of reaching.

 

[Jaesun]

curry just realized this now?

Joined: 10 Jan 2011

Oh never mind....

 

[sser]

Bethesda is somewhat sincere in their efforts while technology has allowed BioWare to create the films they apparently always wanted to.

 

[Ruprekt]

I thought cdprojekt were the new bioware?

 

[Sordid Jester]

It's a bit of a stretch to call Bethesda 'sincere' by any stretch of the imagination when they lie through their fucking teeth at every given opportunity.

Still better than Bioware, though.

 

[sser]

It's a bit of a stretch to call Bethesda 'sincere' by any stretch of the imagination when they lie through their fucking teeth at every given opportunity.

Still better than Bioware, though.

I think it's more of a kid in a toy-shop effect. I've seen some of the Bethesda people demonstrate their games and, to me, it still seems like their hearts are in it. Kind of like when Will Wright would present Spore. He was excited and really enjoyed showing other people his stuff. Sure the game was a pile of shit way short of anything it was supposed to be, but I do not doubt Wright's sincerity because of this. With BioWare it's just not the same. I see people struggling to defend their own creations. Once you see that you know that either they know it is garbage or that they just don't really care about it.

Maybe I'm just being naive here, but that is how I see it.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Maybe I'm just being naive here, but that is how I see it.

No you are not. Bioware REALLY lack integrity. Thus they end up doing what THEY think the market wants.

 

[procrastinator]

Bethesda is much better than Bioware, sure they develop boring hiking sims and raped the symbol of my childhood but at least they aren't a bunch of perverts.

Modders will fix that.

 

[Shannow]

Maybe I'm just being naive here, but that is how I see it.

No you are not. Bioware REALLY lack integrity. Thus they end up doing what THEY think the market wants.

Yes, he is. Bio, Beth and Obsidian (and Will Wright and most others) all go down the "the market" (read, PR suits/bullshit/advertising) "wants" it, thus we have to make everything as accessable as possible even if that means our product ends up being a hollow if shiny shell of a "game".
Spore had awesome concept and milestones, then they decided to make it cutesy, castrate the gameplay and riddle it with DRM because supposedly that is what the market wants (again, the "market" as PR suits imagine it to be and then form it to be by advertising, all the while supported by their gaming journalist whores and excitable ADHS kiddies).
While many of Beth's faults derive from pure ineptitude (never atribute to malice what can be explained by mere stupidity) they also decide to make their games more accessable by introducing level scaling, quest compasses, etc and cutting more complex features and mechanics. Don't try to tell me that the company that made Daggerfall and Morrowind decided to go down that road because Oblivion and FO3 were really the kind of games they truly wanted to make.
They are all just making stuff their marketing departments tell them will sell. You might think Bioware takes the crown in putting the least effort in (DA2). But I take your DA2 and up you one DS3.
Now the influence of suits might vary from studio to studio (with Bio probably being the most influenced due to being under EA's scrotum) but they are all "lying corporate whores"/"just doing their jobs to feed their families" (however you want to see it, personally, I don't think one excludes the other).

 

[Captain Shrek]

Maybe I'm just being naive here, but that is how I see it.

No you are not. Bioware REALLY lack integrity. Thus they end up doing what THEY think the market wants.

Yes, he is. Bio, Beth and Obsidian (and Will Wright and most others) all go down the "the market" (read, PR suits/bullshit/advertising) "wants" it, thus we have to make everything as accessable as possible even if that means our product ends up being a hollow if shiny shell of a "game".
Spore had awesome concept and milestones, then they decided to make it cutesy, castrate the gameplay and riddle it with DRM because supposedly that is what the market wants (again, the "market" as PR suits imagine it to be and then form it to be by advertising, all the while supported by their gaming journalist whores and excitable ADHS kiddies).
While many of Beth's faults derive from pure ineptitude (never atribute to malice what can be explained by mere stupidity) they also decide to make their games more accessable by introducing level scaling, quest compasses, etc and cutting more complex features and mechanics. Don't try to tell me that the company that made Daggerfall and Morrowind decided to go down that road because Oblivion and FO3 were really the kind of games they truly wanted to make.
They are all just making stuff their marketing departments tell them will sell. You might think Bioware takes the crown in putting the least effort in (DA2). But I take your DA2 and up you one DS3.
Now the influence of suits might vary from studio to studio (with Bio probably being the most influenced due to being under EA's scrotum) but they are all "lying corporate whores"/"just doing their jobs to feed their families" (however you want to see it, personally, I don't think one excludes the other).

I never contended the fact that bathesda are bad. Was just innocently saying that Biowhores are worse. Why? They employ horrible writers from fanficverse. Rest of all you say is of course true.

 

[sser]

You can be sincere and still market your product. The two are not exclusive from one another.

Concerning these developers, they all market their products, no doubt. Bethesda's legendary lead-up to Oblivion is pretty much matched by Will Wright's hours-long presentations of Spore which is equaled by BioWare's annual parade of dimwits. I just believe there is something to be said about how people carry themselves when talking about what they actually make.

Will Wright talking about Spore was more than just marketing. I look at the guy and sure, see a dude who is rich as all hell pushing another product, but I also still see the creative nerd showing off his stuff. Todd from Bethesda carries the same persona. Yeah they're both prodded by suits in the background, but the passion is still there. It's not just for show. I didn't like either game from both companies, and the general direction of gaming is still kind of a downer for me (as it is my primary hobby), but I don't feel like these are evil dudes just pumping out crap because they are forced to.

Now look at BioWare. You can practically see the void in their speaking, the vacuum left over from management sucking the life out of everything. The way they talk about their games bandies back and forth from way too exuberant to the point of talking down to people, to barely even managing to say anything at all which should never happen. I feel awkward (even embarrassed at times) watching these people and it has been going on for quite a while now. When you talk about your game in the same manner Microsoft or Sony sell their motion crap at those big E3 conferences, which is the epitome of marketing bullshit, then you're just doing that -- marketing. And that is all you are doing. It's like a late-career novelist (Stephen King?) just pumping shit out because that is what is supposed to happen.

And it shows in the products. I will play almost anything and have fun in some way. I didn't like Oblivion, but at least there was some charm to its stupidities. Then I play something like Mass Effect 2, which is a very good looking, polished game with few hitches by comparison, except it isn't a game it's a movie where the watcher moves through corridors to get to the next scene. It's just fucking high-production value garbage. Everything is presentation-presentation-presentation. At least in Oblivion I could do something hilarious like kill people and wear their clothes as guards chased me; or make dick-monsters in Spore.


Fuck I don't know. I'm bad at long internet posts.

In summary.

 

[Shannow]

Fuck I don't know. I'm bad at long internet posts.[/url]

You're not bad. You're just wrong when you think that Bio devs have no passion for their games and Beth (and others) act only on their passion.

 

[Relay]

Now look at BioWare. You can practically see the void in their speaking, the vacuum left over from management sucking the life out of everything. The way they talk about their games bandies back and forth from way too exuberant to the point of talking down to people, to barely even managing to say anything at all which should never happen. I feel awkward (even embarrassed at times) watching these people and it has been going on for quite a while now.

The most hilarious piece of bioware marketing :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyR1fGMCLXo

From Dark-And-Gritty-GameDev to the you-can-play-strategically-in-the-same-mission-where-you-can-mash-buttons (but then why bother if mashing buttons gives you the same result).

 

[villain of the story]

Bethesda has yet to provide entertainment anywhere near playing female Shepard. Bioware, on the other hand, has yet to make a "game".

Bioware for torturous entertainment. Bethesda for excruciating gaming.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Now look at BioWare. You can practically see the void in their speaking, the vacuum left over from management sucking the life out of everything. The way they talk about their games bandies back and forth from way too exuberant to the point of talking down to people, to barely even managing to say anything at all which should never happen. I feel awkward (even embarrassed at times) watching these people and it has been going on for quite a while now.

The most hilarious piece of bioware marketing :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyR1fGMCLXo

From Dark-And-Gritty-GameDev to the you-can-play-strategically-in-the-same-mission-where-you-can-mash-buttons (but then why bother if mashing buttons gives you the same result).

Or you know, the void as in goatse.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

. Then I play something like Mass Effect 2, which is a very good looking, polished game with few hitches by comparison, except it isn't a game it's a movie where the watcher moves through corridors to get to the next scene.

In summary.

when was the last time you watched movie in cinema?

 

[Satan]

Yeah, yeah, i get it guys, new CDP Red is Bioware, new Bioware is Bethesda and new Codex is Watch.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

new Konjad is Satan

 

[Sordid Jester]

You can be sincere and still market your product. The two are not exclusive from one another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg - Bethesda's sincerity.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

they had to tone down the ai because it was too good man it was too real

emergent feature rollback hubris of man playing at god

 

[Clockwork Knight]

For some reason, this thread makes me wanna hum "Bad Romance"

 

[corvus]

they had to tone down the ai because it was too good man it was too real

emergent feature rollback hubris of man playing at god

I know every time my dog wouldn't stop barking i set him on fire to shut him up. seeing that happen in a game would just be too uncanny.

 

[curry]

curry just realized this now?

To be honest, while both companies have made mediocre cRPGs in the past, it's not until their latest games that they became utterly shit.

 

[Mastermind]

You can be sincere and still market your product. The two are not exclusive from one another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?=pjbx6-KQoRg - Bethesda's sincerity.

That falls under incompetence, not dishonesty.

 

[Relay]

You can be sincere and still market your product. The two are not exclusive from one another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?=pjbx6-KQoRg - Bethesda's sincerity.

That falls under incompetence, not dishonesty.

They did have a prototype, it just was too buggy and they had to rip most of the radiant off to make a releasable game, it's not really dishonesty. Something like Dragon Age 2 on the other hand is pure, total dishonesty, an actiony button mashing game masquerading as the successor of something that at least tried a bit to look like a RPG.