Is Chris Parker dragging Obsidian down?

[Forest Dweller]

That comment was from some low-level designer who was never seen on interviews.

And Avellone was the lead designer, which meant he was in charge of the writing and the overall design of the game, not specific implementation of various systems and features. As the Executive Producer, Parker would be in charge of that.

That designer was pretty pissed off, and if he thought Avellone had a role in the game's poor optimization and lack of polish, I don't doubt he would have mentioned it.

 

[themadhatter114]

Or maybe he's a troll who didn't want to risk his credibility by displaying such animosity toward Avellone.

 

[MetalCraze]

It doesn't matter if he's troll or not. What matters is that fanboys are quick to blame the guy who doesn't take any serious part in design of a game for failures of the whole team which failed to deliver on every single gameplay front.

That comment was from some low-level designer who was never seen on interviews.

Besides where was the BAAAAWWW before the release of AP?

It doesn't matter who he is. Hypocrite decided to speak up only when it doesn't matter anymore.

And Avellone was the lead designer, which meant he was in charge of the writing and the overall design of the game, not specific implementation of various systems and features. As the Executive Producer, Parker would be in charge of that.

Yes as a Lead Designer the poor and innocent sheep Avellone was just writing text and doing the "overall design" of the game which of course involved him sitting in the studio and shining with the light of all that is good.
While the evil Executive Producer designed every core element of combat, stealth, character system, minigames, characters, levels and so on
And poor small designers are just being oppressed, they don't design anything.

That designer was pretty pissed off, and if he thought Avellone had a role in the game's poor optimization and lack of polish, I don't doubt he would have mentioned it.

Poor optimization and a lack of polish aren't the game's problems

 

[Mangoose]

It doesn't matter if he's troll or not...

Yes as a Lead Designer the poor and innocent sheep Avellone was just writing text and doing the "overall design" of the game which of course involved him sitting in the studio and shining with the light of all that is good.
While the evil Executive Producer designed every core element of combat, stealth, character system, minigames, characters, levels and so on
And poor small designers are just being oppressed, they don't design anything.

Well, if you don't think he's a troll, then your sarcastic comment should be taken literally, as the troll in question explicitly stated:

"Chris Parker (also an owner of the company), seemed to think he was the world’s greatest designer ever, and created all these absolutely shitty systems... He basically took over the game and dictated exactly how everything would work."

So either he's telling the truth and Parker is the culprit, or he's lying and this wasn't the case. There's no in-between.

 

[MetalCraze]

If he's the real developer then I think they are just trying to make Parker a scapegoat - considering that Parker was doing lots of PR job it only makes sense he will get blamed for failed sales.
Why "speak up" only after the game came out?

But my post was rather directed at blind fanboi who try to find any reason to blame someone else but Obsidian.

Feargus and Avellone fapped just as hard to all those "shitty systems" (especially Avellone and his "wow wow timed dialogues!") with Feargus going as far as saying openly that they are making a game for 15 years olds (and every fanboy on the Codex was perfectly ok with that) and it was Avellone who scrapped Mitsoda's work.
One man can't just take over and micromanage every design decision, especially when the whole design team is being led by the other co-owner.

 

[Shannow]

AP is. And now that it tanked suddenly it's shit?

Did it tank? Shouldn't it be too early to tell? Does someone not Drog, skyway or Volly have any information on this?

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

It's too early for any sales figures, but it is definitely tanking in reviews.

 

[1eyedking]

it was Avellone who scrapped Mitsoda's work.

Is there a link somewhere showing what Brian did? Some of his thoughts on the Zombie RPG were pretty interesting. He seems to be a pretty serious guy, furthermore, the kind that gets stuff done.

 

[MetalCraze]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Mitsoda
?

Yeah he did a way better job on VtmB than Avellone with his one-dimensional anime kids somehow being bosses of faceless mooks in AP.

...for good or ill, I have nothing to do with Alpha Protocol as it is being developed currently. I was working on the creative direction, story, and dialogue for previous iterations of the game, but outside of a dialogue system I created (before Mass Effect was announced) for an earlier version of the game, my (and Annie Carlson’s) original dialogue and plot – again, for good or ill – are not being used for the game. Any characters I’m attributed with creating bear only a superficial resemblance to the ones in my original story

 

[1eyedking]

So the dialogue system is his creation? Ugh...

 

[Lockkaliber]

Feargus and Avellone fapped just as hard to all those "shitty systems" (especially Avellone and his "wow wow timed dialogues!") with Feargus going as far as saying openly that they are making a game for 15 years olds (and every fanboy on the Codex was perfectly ok with that) and it was Avellone who scrapped Mitsoda's work.

First off, Brian Mitsoda designed the timed dialog system you gigantic fucking moron. Secondly: We have no idea just how much off Mitsodas work was scrapped.


edit: From Avellones blog november 2009

the first and second draft of the character concepts and a chunk of the tone direction for those characters were done before I started on the project - they were done by Brian Mitsoda (Brian also developed the concept of the real-time dialogue system, and Dan Spitzley implemented it, although parts of it have been... touched… in inappropriate ways by the programming team) and Annie Carlson did writing for a number of the characters. Some of Brian's dialogues are intact (Scarlet Lake), not so sure about Annie's before she moved over to NWN2: Storm of Zehir to finish that up. Brian Menze (Fallout, Knights of the Old Republic II, Fallout New Vegas) is responsible for the look of the characters as well, including some characters he and the art department were given free rein with (Championchik). Brian and Annie were also instrumental in establishing some of the pipelines for the project, templating, and they also were a big proponent of getting table reads in place for the dialogues as well, which was a plus. Brian also put us in contact with Womb who had handled Vampire Bloodlines, and Margaret (Mina?) Tang, our voice director, was a huge help throughout the whole process. So anyway, thanks to all of those fine folks. End credits.

Which basically means that the character concepts where done by Mitsoda, and the same characters are still in the game. Now STOP lying Skyway.

 

[Felix]

Skyway

STOP lying

More like stop being an ignorant faggot thinks he knows it all.

 

[Forest Dweller]

If he's the real developer then I think they are just trying to make Parker a scapegoat - considering that Parker was doing lots of PR job it only makes sense he will get blamed for failed sales.

It's funny how one minute you're wanting to blame everybody at the company, then the next you're conveniently trying to absolve Parker. Oh, also doesn't fit in with how you try to bash Avellone at every opportunity.

Poor optimization and a lack of polish aren't the game's problems

But that's what we're talking about in this thread. There's plenty other AP threads for you to shit in, why don't you go there instead?

 

[MetalCraze]

Now STOP lying Skyway.

You wanted to say "stop lying Brian Mitsoda"? Or did your "oh noez the might of Saint Christ Avellone is being questioned!" fanboi blindness stop you from seeing Mitsoda's words?
EDIT> if that's not enough for you, see Roguey's post below where Parker and Avellone make themselves very clear that they are doing some MGS instead of what Mitsoda planned to do

If he's the real developer then I think they are just trying to make Parker a scapegoat - considering that Parker was doing lots of PR job it only makes sense he will get blamed for failed sales.

It's funny how one minute you're wanting to blame everybody at the company, then the next you're conveniently trying to absolve Parker. Oh, also doesn't fit in with how you try to bash Avellone at every opportunity.

Somebody is attacking Avellone! Quickly we must pronounce Jihad on him!
(like I also didn't attack Feargus, but he isn't as saint and unquestionable as Christ)

I don't excuse anyone, especially not Parker. I'm just amazed at how you morons are so quick to jump on a guy because you saw a single post blaming him from god knows who.

But that's what we're talking about in this thread. There's plenty other AP threads for you to shit in, why don't you go there instead?

Really? So far I can only see a stupid reaction from fanatics trying to lay the blame for AP being a failure on some guy, the name of whom you probably heard for the first time

It's just like that thing I wrote earlier in this thread (or the neighboring one) about fanboys being retards capable of only posting butthurt like "zomg u r lying skywya u r just dum durr hurrr" and incapable of saying why.

 

[Roguey]

Is there a link somewhere showing what Brian did? Some of his thoughts on the Zombie RPG were pretty interesting. He seems to be a pretty serious guy, furthermore, the kind that gets stuff done.

I suspect that he was an advocate for more-nearly-realistic design and characters.
Interview

“We started real-world,” sighs Parker. “It was boring, so we made it a little more extreme: not comic-book levels, but still, how realistic is it to blindfire a shotgun over your head?”
...
“Bad guys in suits was too much realism,” explains Parker. “We wanted characters who stood out and were unique.” Avellone sums it up more succinctly: “We’re Kill Bill.”

Iron Tower Interview with Mitsoda

Setting is an important RPG element. It's a foundation of a game and sometimes even a pretty good reason to play one. So, how do you create and breathe life into new worlds?
...
Some settings can make a designer’s job difficult, like real world settings. The expectations of recreating the world around us is, well, everyone knows what the real world’s like and has expectations that are impossible to faithfully recreate, not to mention the realism impacting the design.

What are the most important setting elements, what must be done right?

Your setting must support and amplify the goals of your design. Sometimes designers really want to work in a certain setting because they have a design idea in mind that would work really well with it. Sometimes they think a setting is “cool” and then spend three or more years of their lives trying to shoehorn a design into it. Clearly, one of these is the path of least resistance, which is generally favorable.

Usually good designs can work in multiple settings. I think generally you want the design to be helped by the setting, rather than work despite it. For example, if you’re emphasizing a serious real world setting and your human character jump kicks a tank to pieces or does battle with a telepath who can only be beaten by plugging your controller into the second slot, your “serious real world” game setting starts to become more unbelievable, and even if the mechanics are fun, you’ve undermined any authenticity you were going for.

 

[Lockkaliber]

Now STOP lying Skyway.

You wanted to say "stop lying Brian Mitsoda"? Or did your "oh noez the might of Saint Christ Avellone is being questioned!" fanboi blindness stop you from seeing Mitsoda's words?
EDIT> if that's not enough for you, see Roguey's post below where Parker and Avellone make themselves very clear that they are doing some MGS instead of what Mitsoda planned to do

You are still full of shit. You criticized the characters for being anime or whatever, and saying it was Avellone who designed them. According to Avellone though, most of the in game characters are still the ones that Mitsoda designed. You were only trying to take a cheap shot at Avellone without knowing all the facts, and it should be painfully obvious to yourself that you don't. Yet, you continue to spew bullshit around you as if you had personally witnessed the entire development process from beginning to end, and when you are proven wrong or someone questions you about the truth of your statements you immediately go "FFFFFAAAAANBOOOOIZZZ", like a mouth breathing retard.

So how about you comment on the targeting system that you were 100% sure was going to be like in Mass Effect, and not the slightest bit like Deus Ex before the game was released? Have anything to say about that?

 

[Radisshu]

Oh, Skyway.

"AP SUCKS!"

"Well, it's kind of buggy and a bit unpolished I guess but I like it."

"NO IT'S BANAL SHIT BORING BAD GAME"

"Well uh I like it and plenty of codexers - "

"YOU'RE FANATIC THEY'RE FANATICS BAW BAW"

 

[MetalCraze]

You criticized the characters for being anime or whatever, and saying it was Avellone who designed them

Did you read Mitsoda's quote?

You are still full of shit. You criticized the characters for being anime or whatever, and saying it was Avellone who designed them. According to Avellone though, most of the in game characters are still the ones that Mitsoda designed.

“Bad guys in suits was too much realism,” explains Parker. “We wanted characters who stood out and were unique.” Avellone sums it up more succinctly: “We’re Kill Bill.”

Did you read this Parker and Avellone quote?

and when you are proven wrong or someone questions you about the truth of your statements you immediately go "FFFFFAAAAANBOOOOIZZZ", like a mouth breathing retard.

Where were I proven wrong? It's the second time you ignore an Obsidian developer contradicting your claims. Even more - this time it's Avellone himself. He himself says right there that Mitsoda characters were too deep for the retarded target audience so they had to Tarantinize them.

You have such a blind fanatic love for Avellone that you ignore even his quotes that make him look bad - and you wonder why you are a fanboy?
From where I'm standing it looks like Obsidian did hit the target audience with their game.

So how about you comment on the targeting system that you were 100% sure was going to be like in Mass Effect, and not the slightest bit like Deus Ex before the game was released? Have anything to say about that?

Come on, I'm sure you can try harder than this. I know you want to concentrate on finding at least some faults in your opponent. But I will indulge you. It is indeed like in ME. I don't remember saying anything about DX.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Avellone vs Mitsoda. Who's lying and why? DISCUSS!

 

[Lockkaliber]

It's the second time you ignore an Obsidian developer contradicting your claims. Even more - this time it's Avellone himself. He himself says right there that Mitsoda characters were too deep for the retarded target audience so they had to Tarantinize them.

Nope, he didn't say that. You just made that inference without any real proof at all. He said "We're Kill Bill." Now where did Brian Mitsoda say that his characters weren't? I guess you're thinking about the ITS interview? Nope he doesn't say that at all. He just mentions vague design principles for real world settings. You have no idea how that figures into AP or anything else for that matter. His examples were from MGS, not AP. Again, this is the exact same thing I'm talking about. You infer without knowing all the facts. Add to this that Avellone claims that Mitsodas characters are still in the game, and what do we get?

 

[crufty]

sounds like a shitty dev


an owner or producer can put whatever they want in the game because they sign the paycheck. many a game has been sandbagged by this kind of behavior. totally common. and sometimes it works out well. sometimes manmonths are spent on a feature that is totally ignored. oh well life goes on right?

at the same time, a stellar dev should either be able to make the idea great, or redirect the producer / owner into a strategy that might work better (people skillz lollolollololollollol). give people what they want not what they ask for etc etc.

i can't imagine the post is real unless its by an intern or somebody who doesn't work there any more, maybe a contractor brought in to finish a system? you wouldn't believe how many shitty contractor's there are btw, totally worthless.

btw i lol'd in real life at the *taps the design doc*

thats how it goes....anyway, there are two kinds of employees, pigs and chickens. when it comes to breakfast, chickens are into it, but the pig is committed: his bacon is on the line. most contractors are chickens, and that kind of snubby behavior fits the chicken mold perfectly. no pig talks like that because on the next game they are going to shed more of their bacon.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

you know, skyway...they have these online dating and friend sites. if that, y'know, helps any.

 

[Forest Dweller]

at the same time, a stellar dev should either be able to make the idea great, or redirect the producer / owner into a strategy that might work better (people skillz lollolollololollollol). give people what they want not what they ask for etc etc.

That all depends on the boss being willing to listen to suggestions and take them to heart. If he isn't, there's nothing anyone can do.

 

[crufty]

That all depends on the boss being willing to listen to suggestions and take them to heart. If he isn't, there's nothing anyone can do.

if a boss isn't willing to listen its usually because things have progressed to a point where he can't.

slip a few deadlines and i can see how a publisher used to XYZ and is seeing ABC is going to start saying more and more 'hmm ABC is good where is the XYZ'.

 

[Volourn]

"Does someone not Drog, skyway or Volly have any information on this?"

WHy lump me with them? Are you ignorantly assuming I hate AP? If so, idiot.